Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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Man was ultimately natural and evil and still chose God within the Israel camp. You evidently have refused to read the entire Torah and complete Tanakh to see how wicked the Chosen People of God have been since the Law was established.

Oh....so that's why God destroyed the first generation of Exodus Jews (with very few exceptions) and would not allow that generation into the Land -- because their mighty "freewills" chose God within the Israel camp"? :rolleyes:
 
Man is born into depravity.

No argument from me.

Its how God works around that depravity to get a soul saved where the disagreements enter the picture.

Calvinist rely on "Irresistible Grace."

Yet, even the grace given, even the one who rejects God, is irresistible while God ministers it to the person rejecting.
more than likely the grace get more irresistible the more that grace is accepted 😊
 
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Okay, that is called moving the goal posts. The law was commands which nobody could keep perfectly and that is the subject matter.

God commands things people simply cannot do, you denied this.
True enough that people simply cannot obey the law to his standards yes but the reason for the law is why I say what I say because the law was always going to be impossible for us but that wasn't the purpose of him giving it

So in a sense yes he does command things we cannot do but he never does so without reason and without intent behind it
 
Just because God knew they were gonna do it dosent mean He made them do it.

Did you have a point to make? Have I ever said that God made A&E sin?

Furthermore, God's foreknowledge is not grounded in prescience. It's rooted in Divine Prerogative, which I have proved with several scriptures in the past.
 
Okay, that is called moving the goal posts. The law was commands which nobody could keep perfectly and that is the subject matter.

God commands things people simply cannot do, you denied this.

Who circumcises our hearts? People were commanded to. Yet it is accomplished by the Holy Spirit, not us.


When we find ourselves doing things that we know were impossible for us to be doing?

That becomes God's way of showing that His Grace is working in us.

grace and peace .............
 
True enough that people simply cannot obey the law to his standards yes but the reason for the law is why I say what I say because the law was always going to be impossible for us but that wasn't the purpose of him giving it

So in a sense yes he does command things we cannot do but he never does so without reason and without intent behind it
You are pussy footing. GOD GIVES COMMANDS PEOPLE CANNOT KEEP. You denied this.

The reason why He does so is completely immaterial to the discussion.

If a baseline for discussion cannot be established no true discussion can be had. No, yeah but, yeah but, allowed.
 
more than likely the grace get more irresistible the more that grace is accepted 😊

The TULIP concept states that since man is totally depraved, that Grace must force us to believe.
Hence, "irresistible."
 
Oh....so that's why God destroyed the first generation of Exodus Jews (with very few exceptions) and would not allow that generation into the Land -- because their mighty "freewills" chose God within the Israel camp"? :rolleyes:
He destroyed them because they refused to do as He commanded them to do like go in and possess the Promised Land.
 
True enough that people simply cannot obey the law to his standards yes but the reason for the law is why I say what I say because the law was always going to be impossible for us but that wasn't the purpose of him giving it

So in a sense yes he does command things we cannot do but he never does so without reason and without intent behind it

Could that reason be to show man just how weak, feeble, impotent, helpless and powerless he really is?
 
I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day: I have put before you life and death, blessing and curse. Choose life so you and your offspring would live
The super-determinists ADMIT that they are incapable of following these instructions. They also ADMIT that it is impossible for them to hear and believe the gospel. They also ADMIT that the power of the gospel to save is ineffective upon them.

I, on the other hand, profess no such crippling limitations.

Crazy huh?

[Pro 8:32-35 NKJV]
32 "Now therefore, listen to me, [my] children, For blessed [are those who] keep my ways.
33 Hear instruction and be wise, And do not disdain [it].
34 Blessed is the man who listens to me, Watching daily at my gates, Waiting at the posts of my doors.
35 For whoever finds me finds life, And obtains favor from the LORD;
[Pro 8:36 NKJV] 36 But he who sins against me wrongs his own soul; All those who hate me love death."
 
The TULIP concept states that since man is totally depraved, that Grace must force us to believe.
Hence, "irresistible."

All the saints in the eternal New Order will be rejoicing in and singing the praises of God for all eternity for "forcing" them into his holy, righteous and good Presence. I doubt any of them will want to trade down to the lake of fire.
 
The TULIP concept states that since man is totally depraved, that Grace must force us to believe.
Hence, "irresistible."
Doesn't sound like grace to me. Sounds more like a religious gulag labor camp.
 
The super-determinists ADMIT that they are incapable of following these instructions. They also ADMIT that it is impossible for them to hear and believe the gospel. They also ADMIT that the power of the gospel to save is ineffective upon them.

I, on the other hand, profess no such crippling limitations.

Crazy huh?

[Pro 8:32-35 NKJV]
32 "Now therefore, listen to me, [my] children, For blessed [are those who] keep my ways.
33 Hear instruction and be wise, And do not disdain [it].
34 Blessed is the man who listens to me, Watching daily at my gates, Waiting at the posts of my doors.
35 For whoever finds me finds life, And obtains favor from the LORD;
[Pro 8:36 NKJV] 36 But he who sins against me wrongs his own soul; All those who hate me love death."
It is awakening to think that should God say to them do this that they won't because they believe God does it without their interaction.
 
He destroyed them because they refused to do as He commanded them to do like go in and possess the Promised Land.

Wow! Really? You're such a paragon of info. But what about those who you say chose God in the camp of Israel? :rolleyes:
 
We can see multiple viewpoint concerning this subject matter.

But the point is if God says to do something and then if man obeys then God will make it happen.
You too have a peculiar way of saying...You're right.
 
You are pussy footing. GOD GIVES COMMANDS PEOPLE CANNOT KEEP. You denied this.

The reason why He does so is completely immaterial to the discussion.

If a baseline for discussion cannot be established no true discussion can be had. No, yeah but, yeah but, allowed.
Eh? how am I pussy footing? I agreed that God does give us commands we cannot fully do my reason for him doing so however is why I say what I do. the reason he gave it is even clearly spoken of in scripture.

So yes I was wrong in saying he enevr commands us to do something we cannot do, but my reason for his giving the law however still stands and it does matter because without understanding the reason for the law we cannot understand the law itself
 
I never made any such claim. Why act as though I did?
not "acting as though [you] did" anything ... just clarifying that God gets the glory in either case ...





Cameron143 said:
Do you have any comments on what I actually said?
only that Gideon at some point no longer faltered when God told him to go ... Gideon's trust in God grew ... each time God brought him and his men through the fire Gideon's faith was strengthened ... same fact holds true in our day and time.
.
 
Could that reason be to show man just how weak, feeble, impotent, helpless and powerless he really is?
Yes precisely and so when we talk about the law and God commanding something that is not possible for us we have to take into consideration the reason he gave it to begin with or else we will not understand the law
 
Doesn't sound like grace to me. Sounds more like a religious gulag labor camp.

You Shirley ain't gonna like the new created order since you will be forced to not sin any longer. But I Shirley hope you enjoy very warm climates.