Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Rufus]

more scratching where there is no itch ... try reading Scripture and just believe what is written without sifting Scripture through the sieve of whatever dogma you hold to ...


2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
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So, I guess you think that Moses was not a God-fearer? You FWers are loathe to embrace universal spiritual principles, aren't you? Do you think the Fear of the Load is like some elective car accessory -- that the sons of men can choose to have or not have in their souls and hearts?

 

[Magenta]

You FWers are loathe to embrace universal spiritual principles, aren't you?

Do they exist in their theology? From what I have seen some do not even accept that there are none
good. All those things Scriptures say of man do not apply in today's day and age according to them.
He is not such a bad guy. Killing your brother is not even such a bad thing. Disobeying God is a-okay.

And man is certainly not subject to any consequence as a result of Adam's sin. No siree, Bob!

This is why we all them heretics. Pelagian heretics, to be more precise. There are quite a few of them here.

Pelagian heretics insist man is inherently good. From within the hearts of men come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, debauchery, envy, slander, arrogance, and foolishness. Mark 7 verses 21-22 Every inclination of man's heart is evil from his youth. Genesis 8 verse 21b Who can bring out clean from unclean? No one! Job 14 verse 4 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Matthew 7 verse 18

 

[BillyBob]

My Passage of Scripture proves that God did something to make Moses notice.
That is God choosing Moses.

My Passage of Scripture also proves that after God chose Moses God allowed Moses to make a decision on what he wanted to do. It's why the Verse specifies Moses said to himself, I will turn aside now, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.

Moses said, I WILL which is FREE WILL!

This is how God works with ALL OF US!


Even Romans 1 tells us that God first manifested Himself to them. Then Romans 1 tells us that those He manifested Himself to refused\rejected God because they have FREE WILL to do so. Romans 1 also tells us that God eventually gave them a REPROBATE MIND.

That is how God works and how the Bible should be interpreted.

What part of the word CAUSE do you not understand?
1. a. : a reason for an action or condition : motive. b. : something that brings about an effect or a result.

Blessed is the man You choose,
And cause to approach You,
Psa 65:4

 

[Magenta]

What part of the word CAUSE do you not understand?
1. a. : a reason for an action or condition : motive. b. : something that brings about an effect or a result.

Blessed is the man You choose,
And cause to approach You,
Psa 65:4

From Romans 7 verses 18-19 Journey from Inability to Ability I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out... I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do. Praise be to God for circumcising my sinful nature, causing me to obey by putting His Holy Spirit in me, and giving me a new heart.

 

[BillyBob]

From Romans 7 verses 18-19 Journey from Inability to Ability I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out... I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do. Praise be to God for circumcising my sinful nature, causing me to obey by putting His Holy Spirit in me, and giving me a new heart.

Do you actually mean that it is God who brings us to newness of life? We don't do it ourself?

 

[Cameron143]

For their evil, rejecting Christ. I fail to see what that has to do with the type of punishment Christ endured. He did not suffer the lake of fire, it was not an everlasting condemnation He wore in His body it was temporal, encased in time and space.

Plus you failed to address the fact that everyone will eventually be released from death which, is the punishment Christ bore.

Jesus bore in His body sins on the cross...Hebrews 9:28. Matthew 1:21...Jesus saves His people from their sins. The cross is about paying for sins, not keeping people from death. Everyone still dies. The sacrifice on the cross didn't deal with this. What it did was allow believers to pass from death to life...1 John 3:14, and are no longer under condemnation...Romans 8:1.

If Jesus didn't pay for sins on the cross, when were sins paid for? And everyone isn't released from death. People continue to die physically and remain separated from God spiritually.

I've twice explained that Jesus suffered on the cross whatever is necessary to satisfy God's wrath against believer's sins. If not, how can one no longer be under condemnation?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Also, Studier was finally on the mark by appealing to Gen 5:1ff. Since Adam was made in the image and likeness of the Creator, so too all of Adam's progeny were as well...but with a caveat. The image and likeness of God was marred significantly when Adam sinned but it didn't die. It didn't disappear. But it was catastrophically ruined. (We could look at this as a burnt out, gutted building that is only a shell of its former glory.)

which is what studier and I are discussing if you would read with clarity instead of searching incessantly for objections to what is being discussed.

Of all the descendants of Adam only Enoch "walked with God". The others? Not so much! The ruined image and likeness of Adam was passed down to all his posterity, which is why the text essentially says that Seth was made directly from Adam's image and likeness, implying an indirect connection to God's image and likeness; whereas Adam's pre-Fall image and likeness was perfectly and directly connected to God.

other than the fact that Enoch was not the only believer in Adam's line ... no dispute

Of course, what made the difference between Enoch and the other descendants was God's efficacious grace; although Studier and others would be loathe to accept this and instead likely boast in the efficacy of Enoch's "freewill".

God showed "efficacious grace" to Cain and Cain rejected.

When God reaches out to mankind, there are only 2 options, Rufus,

1) believe
2) suppress the truth in unrighteousness

just because someone believes when God reaches out, that does not take away from God, in any way, shape, or form ... although, for whatever reason, you and others have come to the erroneous conclusion that if someone believes when God reaches out that somehow means man is somehow "boasting" or "glorying in himself" ... when that is not the case at all ... that is all made up "unbiblical hoaxing and humbuggery, blatherskite and baloney*" (to coin a phrase).

just because someone suppresses the truth in unrighteousness when God reaches out, that does not take away from God, in any way, shape or form ... God is still God ... He knows it ... satan knows it ... the only ones who do not know it are the ones who continuously insist that when someone suppresses the truth in unrighteousness, that is due to God not reaching out to them ... again made up "unbiblical hoaxing and humbuggery, blatherskite and baloney*" (to coin a phrase).

* "unbiblical hoaxing and humbuggery, blatherskite and baloney" courtesy of CV5.
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[reneweddaybyday]

So, I guess you think that Moses was not a God-fearer?

please provide the post submitted by me wherein I stated what you claim. Thank you.

You FWers are loathe to embrace universal spiritual principles, aren't you? Do you think the Fear of the Load is like some elective car accessory -- that the sons of men can choose to have or not have in their souls and hearts?

rolleyes ... what is with you, Rufus? Can you not just read what is written without coming to some sort of devious plot on my part? ... sheesh!!! go back to your fictional la-la-land ... and take your context illiterate mate with you.
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[Magenta]

Do you actually mean that it is God who brings us to newness of life? We don't do it ourself?

Well, dearest BillyBob, when asked who could be saved, Jesus said it was impossible with man.



And that is why we praise the Lord! Because what is impossible for man, is possible with God.

Praise the Lord for He is good His love endures forever

 

[Magenta]

Luke 18 verses 25-27 (Matthew 19 verses 24-26, Mark 10 verses 25-27) “Indeed, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” Those who heard this asked, “Who then can be saved?” But Jesus said, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.”

 

[cv5]

which is what studier and I are discussing if you would read with clarity instead of searching incessantly for objections to what is being discussed.





other than the fact that Enoch was not the only believer in Adam's line ... no dispute





God showed "efficacious grace" to Cain and Cain rejected.

When God reaches out to mankind, there are only 2 options, Rufus,

1) believe
2) suppress the truth in unrighteousness

just because someone believes when God reaches out, that does not take away from God, in any way, shape, or form ... although, for whatever reason, you and others have come to the erroneous conclusion that if someone believes when God reaches out that somehow means man is somehow "boasting" or "glorying in himself" ... when that is not the case at all ... that is all made up "unbiblical hoaxing and humbuggery, blatherskite and baloney*" (to coin a phrase).

just because someone suppresses the truth in unrighteousness when God reaches out, that does not take away from God, in any way, shape or form ... God is still God ... He knows it ... satan knows it ... the only ones who do not know it are the ones who continuously insist that when someone suppresses the truth in unrighteousness, that is due to God not reaching out to them ... again made up "unbiblical hoaxing and humbuggery, blatherskite and baloney*" (to coin a phrase).

* "unbiblical hoaxing and humbuggery, blatherskite and baloney" courtesy of CV5.
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If suppressing the truth in unrighteousness were to ever cease on this thread, the super-determinists would be out of a job.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

If suppressing the truth in unrighteousness were to ever cease on this thread, the super-determinists would be out of a job.

holy moly ... talk about speck / beam ... yikes!
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[Genez]

If suppressing the truth in unrighteousness were to ever cease on this thread, the super-determinists would be out of a job.

Why do super-determinists find what they believe is what they are DETERMINED to believe?
They will always say they are being Scriptural.
Everyone is Scriptural in that sense.
Even those who claim we can lose our salvation, and those who want to prove Jesus was not God.

 

[Genez]

holy moly ... talk about speck / beam ... yikes!
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Perhaps? God has pre-determined that we have this beam?

 

[Magenta]

Colossians 2 v 8, Romans 16 v 18, Romans 10 v 2, Proverbs 19 v 2a ~ See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, which are based on human tradition and the spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. For I testify about them that they are zealous for God, but not on the basis of knowledge. Zeal is no good without knowledge.

 

[cv5]

Why do super-determinists find what they believe is what they are DETERMINED to believe?
They will always say they are being Scriptural.
Everyone is Scriptural in that sense.
Even those who claim we can lose our salvation, and those who want to prove Jesus was not God.

I'm still trying to figure out why they all think that God had no choice but to kidnap 7000 totally depraved Baal worshippers (because they say worshipping God was impossible for any otherwise totally depraved Israelite by default), lobotomize them all, and then reprogram them to worship Him after erasing their will. Oh yes then there is the shotgun wedding requirement too.

Yup, that's the super-determinists supposedly astute analysis of 1 Kings 19:18 for you. Ask @Rufus he will concur.

 

[Magenta]

John 14 v 17a, Romans 8 v 6-9 ~ “Inability” in Bible. The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. Praise be to God for calling me out of the world.

 

[Genez]

I'm still trying to figure out why they all think that God had no choice but to kidnap 7000 totally depraved Baal worshippers (because they say worshipping God was impossible for any otherwise totally depraved Israelite by default), lobotomize them all, and then reprogram them to worship Him after erasing their will. Oh yes then there is the shotgun wedding requirement too.

Yup, that's the super-determinists supposedly astute analysis of 1 Kings 19:18 for you. Ask @Rufus he will concur.

They do not understand that our souls are born into a slave master called the depraved flesh.

That if someone can tie up the slave master?
The soul can begin thinking in a way it is not accustomed to.

Grace is God's power that binds the flesh during times when God wants the unbeliever to consider something that would lead
that soul to where it can begin to ask questions that would otherwise not be considered if the flesh was not bound.


.......

 

[sawdust]

Jesus bore in His body sins on the cross...Hebrews 9:28. Matthew 1:21...Jesus saves His people from their sins. The cross is about paying for sins, not keeping people from death. Everyone still dies. The sacrifice on the cross didn't deal with this. What it did was allow believers to pass from death to life...1 John 3:14, and are no longer under condemnation...Romans 8:1.

If Jesus didn't pay for sins on the cross, when were sins paid for? And everyone isn't released from death. People continue to die physically and remain separated from God spiritually.

I've twice explained that Jesus suffered on the cross whatever is necessary to satisfy God's wrath against believer's sins. If not, how can one no longer be under condemnation?

And I've explained that the wages of sin is death not the lake of fire so to say the Cross didn't deal with death when you recognise it is the pivot upon which people pass from death to life is weird.

And I showed you the verse that says death must give up it's dead. It cannot hold them forever because Christ paid the price for all.

You continue to ignore the obvious. Christ paid for our sins by dying, not by going to the lake of fire. If the penalty for sin was eternal torment then that was the price that needed to be paid. He did not pay that price ergo the lake of fire is not the wages of sin.

 

[studier]

Of course, what made the difference between Enoch and the other descendants was God's efficacious grace; although Studier and others would be loathe to accept this and instead likely boast in the efficacy of Enoch's "freewill".

Yes, I would say Enoch seems to have chosen well in responding to God - having faith in God, walking with God, and pleasing God, all of which words and actions have by God's grace been made available to us to choose as well.