Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
- Thread starter LifelongLearner
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Do you know the difference between discussing a passage and witnessing to an unbeliever?
And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth— the gospel of your salvation— you were
sealed with the promised Holy Spirit... I do not see the word after, but obviously since it follows belief
it is after. No length of time is specified. I do not see the word seal in Acts 19, either. Which translation has it?
No. I do not. I can tell an unbeliever everything I believe about every passage of scripture. I don't have to hide anything.
And @Cameron143 When you figure out that you are a petulant child like me...... We can go places!
Anyone that reduces the probability of the love of God (that so loved the world) is setting a snare for all that very desperately need to believe in it for life, eternal life!
I passed time waiting to finish composing my reply in another thread during the recent downtime by catching up on some entries by Parsons where this statement stood out as a summary of the very meaning of life, "If you believe in the love of God, there are no questions; but if you refuse to believe, there are no answers."
I passed time waiting to finish composing my reply in another thread during the recent downtime by catching up on some entries by Parsons where this statement stood out as a summary of the very meaning of life, "If you believe in the love of God, there are no questions; but if you refuse to believe, there are no answers."
Ephesians 1:13 according to KJV says after ye believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. The Spirit of promise is the promise of the Father spoken of in Acts 1:4 that the disciples were to wait on. It is also the same as the promise given in Joel 2:28 that the Spirit would be poured out on all flesh. The initial fulfillment and most notable one was the day of Pentecost. But this outpouring of the Spirit continues throughout the book of Acts.
Fast forward to Acts 19. Paul goes to Ephesus and meets a group of disciples. He asks them if they have received the Holy Spirit since they believed. Being believers, they would have already received the indwelling of the Spirit or they couldn't be believers. So this can't be what is in view. So in effect, Paul is asking them if they had received the promise of the Father...the baptism of the Spirit since they believed. And that's what follows in verse 6 when they speak in tongues and prophesy.
All this to say that very often in the early church the baptism of the Spirit often occurred very near salvation, but not always. And today there are many believers who do not understand the baptism of the Spirit or have experienced it.
Have you ever met a more dismal, depressing, negative, accusatory, and whiney cast of characters in all of your travels that compare?At this point a post may occur where you find out you do not really understand "Reformed" doctrine.......or...... you may find out that you are bearing false witness!!!
It's just an awful state of mind. I pity them.
Being sealed as part of the process of salvation is not spoken of much in these discussions. I do not think it can be the same outpouring of Spirit on everybody since not everyone comes to belief. Do you think receiving the Holy Spirit and being sealed are the same thing?
They were baptized unto John's baptism ...
Acts 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then Paul taught further ...
Acts 19:4-5 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
They were not born again until they believed on Him which should come after him [John], that is, on Christ Jesus
It is the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ which results in salvation ...
.
No, I don't believe that the indwelling of the Spirit and being sealed are the same thing. One is inward and nonexperiential. The other is outward and observable.
And all flesh doesn't mean all humanity. Only a few in the OT had such outpourings of the Spirit. The phrase just means it is common place in the new covenant.
The super-determinist God of unpredictability and impossibility is not the True God of the Bible.
I have lost count of the times our super-determinist crew has used the term "cannot" as a means to deny the simple notion of anyone in child-like faith asking Jesus for salvation.....and being fully assured of receiving what you asked for. For the simple reason that Jesus is utterly predictable in being faithful to keep His word and will certainly do it.
It says they were disciples and Paul asked about receiving the Spirit since they believed. He certainly thought they were saved.
I see this as a phenomenon where OT saints (saved believers) transition to NT saints (the Church), being confirmed by the earnest of the Spirit.
This was simply the last recorded incident of innumerable earlier transitions...... Pentecost being the first.
This incident being not in the least paradoxical, Calvinistically inscrutable or worthy of one of your Twilight zone explanations @Cameron143 .
You said you experienced the sealing five years after believing. How was it observable? (I am curious, I hope you don't mind me asking.)
Have you determined the root cause of this gloomy bitterness and malcontent?
I'm sure @HeIsHere has.
No assurance of salvation. Because it doesn't exist in super-determinists soteriology manual.
Don't mind at all. When I say observable, I mean it is experiential. This could mean it is observable to oneself or, in the case of Pentecost and subsequent occurrences in Acts, others may witness it as well. On Pentecost, flames sat over the heads of the apostles. Other times, some prophesied or spoke in tongues. Others magnified the Lord and rejoiced in Him.
None of that occurred with me. I was reading a book called Joy Unspeakable at night when I came home from work. It was written by Martyn Lloyd Jones. In it, he makes the case for the baptism of the Spirit and goes through the book of Acts to make his case. And every night after I read a chapter I prayed and told God that what he was sharing seemed to good to be true, but if it was true that I would like to experience it. This went on for about a week and then one night I felt an explosion of euphoria in every cell of my body. I don't know how long it lasted. I was telling God I didn't understand why He would entreat such a sinner like me and the euphoria would begin to ebb, and as it did I pleaded with Him that it would continue. And the sensation would heighten again. But I was overcome by my sinfulness again and the feeling again ebbed. I'm not sure how long that went on but eventually it was finished and I was fully assured of my salvation and fully contented in Christ.
The same thing occurred 5 nights in a row with the only difference being the intensity of the euphoria. After those 5 nights it has never occurred again, but a much lesser intensity of the euphoria I have known since and am aware often of God's presence in this way.