Because that's how God chose to do it. If you don't like it, take it up with Him.
I have no idea where you got that idea. Not from any of us.
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
- Thread starter LifelongLearner
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I provided exactly what is written in Scripture. God spoke ... Abraham believed ...
always a pleasure, Cameron143
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question asked ... question answered according to Scripture ... never enough so more questioning ...
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All men are born sinners and God's method of reaching them is to take His word to all corners of the earth. Those who belong to Him will eventually hear and believe. But His word will become a stumbling block to others. His word will accomplish it's purpose.
I think the word giving us problems is believe. I can say from thinking about the word believe that you can coerce someone to say they believe under threat or duress ect ect. However to actually believe that decision has to come from deep inside an individual. I think the belief is man's responsibility. What do you think man's responsibility is in the salvation process.
Yes, you have the right answers, but they do not want them, they want the answers which fits "the system."
So they just look for ways to wear you down as they try to convert you or others.
That is really what is happening, look up stealth Calvinism when you have the opportunity.
Yes, the calvies offer no hope and destruction of the many.
Colossians 2 v 8, Romans 16 v 18, Romans 10 v 2, Proverbs 19 v 2a ~ See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, which are based on human tradition and the spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. For I testify about them that they are zealous for God, but not on the basis of knowledge. Zeal is no good without knowledge. They teach as doctrine the precepts of men.
The Liberal/progressives offer man-made emotional philosophy.
The Bible offers salvation by Grace through faith.....to ALL.
So this is your witness to unbelievers.
You have no choice, he may or may not grant you belief. And I was shown it was a GRACIOUS granting, but screw that.
The calvie doctrine is strong with this one!
This is a marketing tool that the calvies have mastered!Suppositions are often built into the question.
Leave the unbelievers as a deer in the headlights and try to "one up" other believers.
I'm not catching up on all you're saying in this matter, but it seems the issue being discussed is about belief in Jesus Christ being granted by God.
It's clear this verse is saying belief in Jesus Christ is given by God. So, what's the context as you've been showing...
As I understand you, I think you and I see this Scripture the same way. I'd ask you to correct me if I'm wrong about our agreement. My intent is to join you in your efforts to explain Phil1:29 in context.
Paul is indeed talking to believers as you have well-established.
- He's talking to them about thanking God mainly for their partnership in his battles for the Gospel 1:3-23
- He's talking to them about his conflicting desire to die and be with Christ and his knowledge that it's better for these Christians if he remains for their advancement and joy [of] the Faith 1:22-26
- Phil1:29 begins with a word that states cause, or explanation and this explanation goes to the end of Phil1:30:
- Paul says: On behalf of Christ, God has graciously given the Philippian Christians not only to believe into/for Jesus Christ, but also to suffer on His behalf, having the same conflict which they saw in Paul and now hear is in Paul.
- This explanation ties directly to Phil1:28 and ultimately includes Phil1:27
- Paul is commanding these Christians to conduct themselves worthily of the Gospel of Christ in the face of adversarial opponents.
- Paul wants to hear of these Christians standing in one spirit, struggling together in one soul, struggling together for the Faith [of] the Gospel, and not in any way being terrified of opponents.
- Paul says this will be a sign from God to the opponents of destruction & a sign of these Christians' salvation.
- The explanation in Phil1:29-30 when all is said and done is that God graciously has these Christians doing battle for the Gospel of Jesus Christ and how they are handling this battle in unity is a sign of destruction for opponents and salvation for Christians.
- Paul says: On behalf of Christ, God has graciously given the Philippian Christians not only to believe into/for Jesus Christ, but also to suffer on His behalf, having the same conflict which they saw in Paul and now hear is in Paul.
Although I can see the reasoning of some to take this gracious gift of belief in Christ back to theses Christians' initial belief in Jesus Christ, it's really not the context in which it's being stated.
Also, the belief and the suffering are in the present tense which could argue for staying in this context of God graciously providing for the standing fast in unity in continuing belief during suffering on behalf of Jesus Christ for the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the advancement and joy [of] the Faith for these Christians that Paul knows he needs to stay on earth and help.
I'm not witnessing to unbelievers, unless you are telling me you aren't saved. I'm explaining my understanding of a verse.
And you may have shown it to be a gracious granting, but you haven't established from the passage that it's universal. In fact we know it isn't universal because not all believe. Hence, the gracious granting of belief isn't to all.
And another appeal to emotionalism. If someone doesn't agree with you, you turn to insults. Poor form.
Great post @studier.
Philippians 1:12
Now I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that my circumstances have turned out for the greater progress of the gospel,
The calvies will have us focused on "Given belief." But the overall context is suffering for the sake of Christ.......For the PROGRESS OF THE GOSPEL.
The calvies hinder and deter the progress of the Gospel with their false doctrine and interpretation of the verse.
That is how we witness to unbelievers.
Your witness is ...You have no choice. God may or may not "give" you belief.
Try to put yourself in unbelievers shoes when they read your understanding of this particular verse. Not much hope(biblical hope) for the unbelievers reading your understanding.
This soteriology is completely false. And yes very strong.
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”
John 11:25-26
Obviously "belief" is required by God and something we must do.
Otherwise we would read.
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who has bequeathed belief in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by the bequeathed believing in me will never die. Do you have bequeathed belief?”
Since they cannot know if the person is "pre-selected" they keep the Gospel vague. They cannot affirm God's love for the person or that Christ Jesus died for them.
This is truly an attack on the Gospel since we know God does not regenerate and then bequeath belief.
Let's go with that. I am not saved.
You just witnessed to me that I have no choice. God may or may not grant me belief.
I have my fingers crossed.
No, that's not how I witness to unbelievers. I wouldn't share this passage with an unbeliever. I would share the gospel.
Despite your continued appeals to emotion, you misrepresent my position and actions. Despite being told so, you continue. You're just a dishonest person like several others here.
At this point a post may occur where you find out you do not really understand "Reformed" doctrine.......or...... you may find out that you are bearing false witness!!!
You are nothing more than a petulant child who cannot tell the difference between discussing a passage of scripture and witnessing to an unbeliever.