I follow my desires. Before I was born again, my desires were for myself. After being born again, my desire was for God.
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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Reads like salvation can be lost to me?
Try here: https://christianchat.com/threads/can-we-really-exercise-free-will.218061/post-5554442
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Not necessarily for God.
“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
“As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Isaiah 55:8-9
His ways, are not our ways.
After we had become saved we may sense we need to try to choose differently, yet still be wrong.
Choosing his way requires (especially in the beginning) learning his ways through sound Bible teaching.
His way may be something we would never think of.
Once we are saved we will sense a discomfort that we are no longer at liberty to freely choose for things as we had done before regeneration.
For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh.
They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want."
Galatians 5:17
Initially... It can feel like having broken our preferred arm and having to learn to write with the other.
grace and peace ...........
Reads like salvation can be lost to me?
Our salvation from death cannot be lost. If God has made you alive and given you to Christ (which, He does if you believe), then He will not undo it and nothing in all creation can undo it, including oneself. Rom.8:31:39 God is not mocked, He does not give His Son gifts that do not believe in Him. Keep in mind, it was sin that caused death in the first place and now Christ has dealt with sin, that is no longer the issue. The issue now is our response to Christ, He is the Word. How one handles the word of God after salvation from death will be evaluated at the judgement seat of Christ.
What can be lost are rewards in both time and eternity. The rewards of time is the contentment that comes from learning how to face all things through Christ. Phil.4:11 What Christ described as the abundant life. Jn.10:10 Most Christians today fall apart when things go wrong. They struggle with fear, guilt, all forms of anxiety, all of which are anti-faith.
I can explain it to ya, but it's above my pay grade to make you understand it. You can't even understand my post! I never attributed sin to crime victim. Learn to read! Take night courses. The parallel between God and the Good Samaritan is there for those whose eyes God has not blinded!
And you parade more of your ignorance shamelessly with what I bolded in red. Logic certainly is not your strong suit, is it!? Where your stupid analogy fails is that the priest and Levite were not sinned against -- whereas God was! Therefore, God has no moral duty to save anyone! My post didn't even remotely imply what you wrote.
the nonsense you wrote.
Your choices were made from your volition, it's what volition does. Your desires pointed the direction you wanted to go they did not make the decision for you. You either wanted to follow or you wanted to restrain your desires, either way it was by means of your will the choice was made.
Yes I agree, thank you for elaborating further, it was a little unclear to me.
Well stated and Amen!!
Reads like salvation can be lost to me?
The one salvation believers can lose is this one...
The reason for loosing it?
Clinging to false doctrine.
1 Peter 1:6-9
In all this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief
in all kinds of trials. These have come so that the proven genuineness of your faith—of greater
worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may result in praise, glory and
honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even
though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and
glorious joy, for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
Its why so many Christians may try to tell us they are smiling, but when alone, they are miserable with their lives.
These have come so that the proven genuineness of your faith—of greater
worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may result in
praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.
Faith is what we believe.
Sound doctrine is demanded of God to be able to grant us that kind of happiness that not all will find while on earth.
You have either entirely removed grace from being the cause and reason for salvation or your communication skills are so lacking that no one can understand what you are saying..
ie - God knows who are believers and who are unbelievers from His omniscience.
At the time He chose them, they were neither believers or non-believers – it was before they were born.
ie - Election etc is predicated on His foreknowledge ergo, only believers are elected etc. Election is God choosing what to do with believers, it is not Him determining who will be a believer.
Again, they were neither believers or non-believers. He elected them because that was His desire, His good pleasure, not because of anything special seen within them. And again, it has everything to do with determining who will become a believer!
God does, in fact, have foreknowledge of events which will take place. However, His foreknowledge has no bearing on whom He elects. Neither does it have anything to do with what He sees in man. If that were true, salvation would not depend on grace.
Grace enables you to believe in Christ.
Without God's enabling power of grace to free your soul from the oppressive depravity of the flesh?
You could never believe.
The reason for saving you is your choice to believe after grace freed to to choose.
Grace makes that possible.
The fact that I believed was a result of regeneration and the Spirit working in me....
So true, I can attest both from both the objective (scripture) and subjective (personal) experience.
When I read some of the walls of text presented, completely out of line with sound doctrine, I just think that person must be mostly filled with fear/vitriol rather than happiness.
the fact that the road was not safe to travel does not mean that going to Jericho was sinful in and of itself. In fact, Jesus travelled to Jericho and healed two blind men sitting at the side of the road as He was leaving and they followed Him (Matt 20:29-34); blind Bartimaeus received sight and followed Him (Mark 10:46-52; Luke 18:35-43); salvation came to the house of Zacchaeus in Jericho (Luke 19:1-10).
yes, the priest and the levite were not "good neighbors" under the parable Jesus gave in answer to the question "who is my neighbor".cv5 said:
The lawyer wanted to know what he was to do to receive eternal life (Luke 10:25). After hearing the parable, the lawyer answered the question accurately and Jesus told him to go and do the same as the Samaritan in the parable:
Luke 10:36-37 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves? And he [the lawyer] said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.
The lawyer was not told to be like the man who fell among thieves who ended up half dead ... the lawyer was told to be like the good Samaritan.
were pharisees present? ... the verses just before the discussion with the lawyer indicate Jesus was with His disciples when the 70 returned. The lawyer stood up and asked the question (Luke 10:25).cv5 said:
there is no indication the beaten man came to salvation because that is not the point of the parable ... however, it appears you are in agreement with Rufus in your understanding of the parable ...cv5 said:
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I'm getting quite tired of this nonsense. I have always said grace, grace, grace. Go and read what I have written with understanding and stop trying to overlay your thinking on mine.
Go and ask all the others here if my communication skills are so lacking as I have been getting quite a number of agrees, likes and winners so maybe the problem is not my communication skills.
Regeneration follows belief.
Just like birth follows pregnancy.
But, if you want to believe what makes you feel comfortable?
Be my guest.
What Calvinism did was just like the Catholic church did with the issue of the sinlessness of Jesus.
They concocted a concept (immaculate conception) to explain how he could be born sinless.
So your founders came up with that God regenerates us (which normally follows salvation) so he can save us....
Such teachings have their roots in human impatience.
For we must go through a period of resisting the devil.
The devil in wishing to trip us up, will demand to explain how we can believe something.
Resisting requires we suffer while we wait upon the Lord for an answer.
An answer that some want today, not tomorrow.
So? Some grab onto what others say is the answer, when it is not an answer at all...
In that manner the devil does not really flee.
He simply backs off and watches.
He does not flee.
Nor does our lack of joyous happiness that can only come by having endured until the answer comes.
That is why what some have decided to cling to what they call "conviction" which really is a state of sublimation and delusion.
Much like the transgender who insists that you see them as they want to be seen, behaving as if they truly believe it.
First ... Rufus ... you really need to learn to control your emotional outbursts. Discussion in an online forum through typed text is not as clear as sitting face to face having discussion. So knock off the sniping rants and state your point ... quit going off track due to your inability to keep your emotions in check.
My understanding of that statement is that the half dead man was "spiritually dead due to our Federal Head Adam" ... which led me to believe you inferred that Adam's sin was attributed to the man ... however, maybe you were attributing the sin to the thieves ??? ... you can clarify or not ... up to you.
Luke 10:25-27 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Jesus told the lawyer Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live (Luke 10:28).
The lawyer, because he wanted to justify himself, then asked Who is my neighbor (Luke 10:29).
After hearing the parable, the lawyer answered the question accurately and Jesus told him to go and do the same as the Samaritan in the parable:
Luke 10:36-37 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves? And he [the lawyer] said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.
The lawyer was not told to be like the man who fell among thieves who ended up half dead ... the lawyer was told to be like the good Samaritan.
In the parable, there was no punishment for the thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead (Luke 10:30) ... because that is not the point of the parable.
In the parable, the priest and the levite passed by on the other side (Luke 10:31-32) ... thus leaving the man in his "fallen, dead state" ... see your quoted words ... "if God chooses to leave people in their fallen, dead state" ... which is exactly what the priest and the levite did.
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here is what you said, Rufus:
My understanding of that statement is that the half dead man was "spiritually dead due to our Federal Head Adam" ... which led me to believe you inferred that Adam's sin was attributed to the man ... however, maybe you were attributing the sin to the thieves ??? ... you can clarify or not ... up to you.
again ... not the point of the parable, Rufus. Read the verses again:Rufus said:
Luke 10:25-27 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Jesus told the lawyer Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live (Luke 10:28).
The lawyer, because he wanted to justify himself, then asked Who is my neighbor (Luke 10:29).
After hearing the parable, the lawyer answered the question accurately and Jesus told him to go and do the same as the Samaritan in the parable:
Luke 10:36-37 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves? And he [the lawyer] said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.
The lawyer was not told to be like the man who fell among thieves who ended up half dead ... the lawyer was told to be like the good Samaritan.
the half dead man wasn't "sinned against" ???Rufus said:
here is what you said, Rufus:Rufus said:
In the parable, there was no punishment for the thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead (Luke 10:30) ... because that is not the point of the parable.
In the parable, the priest and the levite passed by on the other side (Luke 10:31-32) ... thus leaving the man in his "fallen, dead state" ... see your quoted words ... "if God chooses to leave people in their fallen, dead state" ... which is exactly what the priest and the levite did.
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I have a relative like that. He is a Christian.
You never know what next may trigger him.
Instability comes from not having truth while trying to force what you want to be accepted as truth, into a dogmatic format, as if dogmatism can transform it into truth. It makes one unstable because we do not have the human strength to make something so,
because we want it to be so.
So you believe everyone knows about Jesus?I will ask....
2000 years ago? Before the Great Commission went into the world?
Did cultures outside of Israel know anything about Jesus dying on a Cross?
No, it was unknown everywhere else in the world except Israel.
That ignorance was what the Great Commission was to put an end to.
Now that we have become partakers of what the Great Commission succeeded in establishing?
Today we have this!
There's a Christian Coalition that keeps track of everywhere missionaries have been to and shared the Gospel. According to them only 5.8 billion of the world's 8.3 billion people have ever heard about Jesus. Maybe try reading what's happening before acting like your assumption equals to a fact.