Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
- Thread starter LifelongLearner
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Wow! What awesome spiritual insight!
"Sons of disobedience" as in sons and daughters of the evil one -- as in the seed(s) of the serpent -- as in the offspring of the Prince of Darkness -- as in this Dark world? Those kinds of "sons of disobedience"? Who precisely do you think these "sons of disobedience" are? Who exactly comprises this Dark world and Satan's dominion of Darkness? Here's a novel idea: Could this Dark world possibly be the reason why Light of the World separated himself from it?And no, YOU have never in your posts expressed any love for the Light or have ever exalted the "ability of the Light". Rather you have exalted the Darkness by making sinners (themselves Darkness) the difference between those choosing to believe and those choosing not believe, remember?
It would be fun to see you actually be able to address these points in a mutually fair and respectful discussion.
It would also be interesting to see you bring in Rom6:17-18 and discuss obedience to teaching/doctrine.
Cam, I thought of two more reasons why the Natural Fallen Man can only continue in sin:
9. NFM, being controlled by the sin nature, cannot please God (Rom 8:8)
10. Only those born of God will not and does not continue in sin (1Jn 3:9; 5:18).
9. NFM, being controlled by the sin nature, cannot please God (Rom 8:8)
10. Only those born of God will not and does not continue in sin (1Jn 3:9; 5:18).
Evil is the absence of Good. Evil is not a thing in and of itself. Evil is like Darkness; for this latter is the absence of Light.
The human soul does not have molecules.
The soul is not like the fallen body.
The soul of man was created 'out from nothing' by God.
Created in His image = Bara in the Hebrew.
"So God created [bara] man in his own image, in the image of God he created [bara] him;
male and female he created [bara] them." (Genesis 1:27)
God called the created soul 'man' before a body was given!
What God created directly in His image could not be created evil.
The soul is not inherently evil.
It's the fallen body that enslaves its soul into evil.
God is immaterial and invisible.
Likewise... The human soul is immaterial and invisible.
God has volition. The human soul has volition.
It's the fallen body that corrupts the soul's thinking.
"The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit
is capacity for life and peace." Rom 8:6
Remove that body?
Leave the soul on its own?
That same soul would be free of the flesh's desires.
That is why it says we have been crucified with Christ!
We are to no longer walk after the flesh.
The human soul had been imprisoned inside a fallen body it was born into.
A soul is not inherently blind.
But, put the soul in a body with blind eyes?
That soul will live in blindness.
It is the soul that God saved.
Not our bodies!
For you were like sheep going astray, but you have now returned
to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls. 1 Peter 2:25
That is why we will be given a new body when our soul enters into eternal life with God.
In the meanwhile?
God's power of grace will handle our fallen flesh problem if we maintain humility in our soul.
God gives grace to the humble. (James 4:6)
But, not to a boastful braggart.
But he gives us greater grace. That is why Scripture says:
“God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.”
Grace is real power provided by God. Power to make an unworthy person to function as what is worthy in His sight.
That grace includes saved warriors who enter into battle.
There is a difference in how the warrior fights.
We tend to carry over our old survival thinking when first saved.
Over time, as we learn more and more sound doctrine, we must decrease so that God's power can increase.
"But he said to me, 'My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.'
Therefore, I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me."
2 Corinthians 12:9
Real men will admit their weakness to God, so that God can transform them into grace power that counts.
In Christ.
Yes... That is why @Magenta is wasting potentially good dialogues with the approach she has chosen.
I am sure it can be improved upon. Her talent should not go unnoticed, but as used in a way to draw us into a real discussion.
Not to sidetrack away from, as she now does.
I took the time to print out what she had to say, for it was good and with merit. But, also to show us what is being wasted by her unintentional deflections from having a real dialogue continue with her.
We'll see. By God's grace it can be done!
Ok i can get your first part because I belive there is the heaven of heavens (aka the holie of holies) heaven (the holy place) earth (common ground)
The meating could of been in heaven and not the heaven of heavens.
What i dont see what you saying is how the angels went strait to earth. They are restricted to earth only after that war. When saten is cast out to the earth in revaluations he goes to war with the woman and her seed. Which is as I understand it is the church. The flood that issues from his mouth represent worldwide persecution. I dont think we have seen that persecution yet. Me and you arnt getting hunted to extinction.
So unless you think there is a time frame between the rebel angels fall and that persecution. I dont understand. Even if there is a time frame the church saten goes after dosent exist for some time yet. And i dont see a time frame referenced between the two events in revaluations. They seem like consecutive events imo.
Thank you. You must have missed it when I asked you to explain it on your own and only provided the awesome spiritual insight re: Darkness contrasting Light. Now chase disobedience around and see why Paul is short-handing and personifying darkness. While you're at it at least try to consider how disobedience might attach to volition and to faith and to...
Disobedience is part and parcel of those born after the flesh. That only changes by being born again of the Spirit. Somehow you think an incurably wicked heart brings about this change. Like other FWers, you put the cart before the horse... and then say you don't.
Both sides agree on almost everything except how you decide to repent God's will or thier own. Calling them pelagian heretics over that is silly. Those people thought they were holy in every way with or without God. Literally as extreme in the free will department as you can get. The other end of the spectrum is the people who gather firewood the second someone questions thier interpretation of doctrine. Screaming heretic heretic. Its like the pharisees whipping up the crowd screaming crucify him . Both of those extreme ends of the spectrum are garbage.
It's so crazy how these Pelagian heretics think an incurably wicked heart can cure itself.
You should stop promoting error. You even got Calvin's stance wrong.
Didn't you just try to call me a Calvinist last night? Take your own advice.
There are a lot of Pelagian heretics on this site.
Totally wrong. Many disagree with almost every single Scripture posted; they contradict and/or outright deny them.
They even rewrite some of them. Cuz they don't mean what they say, according to the heretic.
Evil=sin
The law reveals sin. Look in the Bible at the laws and you can tell what compromises evil.