Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Genez]

I agree.

And I would not be surprised and believe that the fallen angels had some kind of opportunity at salvation. And it was rejected.

That rejection of salvation of the fallen angels was the reason for Satan's wager over Job. (will explain if asked).

Jesus had no need to die for the fallen angels.
For, though they had fallen?
Unlike fallen man, they remained spiritually alive and could receive from God His message for repentance.

Man is soul.
Soul, though immaterial, is not spiritual.
That is why we need to be given a human spirit to know the things of God.

As for angels? They are spirit beings. Not souls like men.
They remain even now capable of comprehending the things of God.
For, the evil spirits that Jesus confronted instantly knew He was the Son of God.
That is when Jesus commanded them to be silent.

One example of what I speak.

​

Just then a man in their synagogue who was possessed ​

by an impure spirit cried out, “What do you want with us, ​

Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? ​

I know who you are—the Holy One of God!” (Mark 1:23-24)​

The Pharisees with souls could not tell who Jesus was. But? Fallen angels instantly knew!
So, God only required repentance from Satan and his angels to be reconciled. But, Job covers
an unspoken aspect of what happened when God was wishing for the fallen angels to repent.

grace and peace ...........

 

[Magenta]

"Free will" in the Bible? ~ Freedom is something believers are called to (Galatians 5 verse 13). We need Jesus to “set us free” (Galatians 5 verse 1). If Jesus has not freed us from the bondage of sin, then we are still slaves to sin (Romans 6 verses 6-7). Freedom is found in the presence of the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3 verse 17). Only Jesus can give us true freedom (John 8 verse 36). Only through His lovingkindness can we truly make choices unfettered by a nature that is inherently hostile toward God.

 

[studier]

Evidently they could care less.

Yes indeed.

 

[Magenta]

John 14 v 17a, Romans 8 v 6-9 ~ “Inability” in Bible The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

 

[Jackson129]

Where does Scripture say anything about angels being saved? .

It was a conclusion I drew because some are obviously lost.

 

[Jackson129]

Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. The natural/unregenerated man has zero fear of God.

Do you not realize that God’s kindness leads you to repentance?

I belive it is God's grace (which is kindness) that allows everyone the choice to accept or deny him. If He never revealed himself to us though the law and his son then we would have nothing to repent to. I would say Everyone has had the thought I wonder if God is real.

 

[Jackson129]

Any thoughts on Pelagian heretics???

Yeah i dont prescribe to thier ideas. They are the opposite end of the super hard Calvin reformist ideas on the religious spectrum. Like communism vs facisim on the political spectrum. I have said I sit somewhere in the middle of that tetter totter.

 

[Cameron143]

Maybe I misunderstood.
What did this mean then?

It means that as a result of man's sin, he was no longer as he was created.

 

[lrs68]

How the ancient Hebrew Jews interpret the issue between fallen angels is what is written in the Torah, the Prophets, and in a few places found in the Psalms.

Basically, God and the angels existed in Genesis 1:1 where the Hebrew words used mean a created Heaven and the Earth were in existence.

Between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 God reveals His Plan to create humans.

This led to a rebellion because some of the angels whose leadership was [our now current] Adversary didn't want this new creation because it prioritized the new creation over them. They would have to serve us (like the good angels) do and they didn't want to do that. And it's why we have Genesis 3, Genesis 6, Genesis 12, and in the New Testament we see the many demon possessions that Jesus casts out and tells them to shut up about announcing Who He is.

But that's how the Hebrew Scriptures explain the rebellion of the fallen angels.

 

[Magenta]

I belive it is God's grace (which is kindness) that allows everyone the choice to accept or deny him. If He never revealed himself to us though the law and his son then we would have nothing to repent to. I would say Everyone has had the thought I wonder if God is real.

Wondering if God is real is a pretty long way from believing the gospel.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

It means that as a result of man's sin, he was no longer as he was created.

Yes ... Adam and Eve were no longer as God had created them. God said they know good and evil (Gen 3:22). According to some who have posted in this thread, natural man is wholly evil ... when what God said was they know good and evil ... not that they are only evil ... or that they know (or can know) only evil.

God having written the work of the law in the heart of natural man (Rom 2:15) is a safeguard for mankind so that mankind can be stirred in the depths of his being when God reveals Himself ... or comes knocking. And I believe God provides many opportunities in the life of a person to turn to Him. The fact that this world is set up to draw mankind away from God does not negate God having provided all that is needed to mankind to turn to Him. Those who reject and find themselves cast into the lake of fire will know that they have been judged appropriately due to their suppression of the truth which lead to the rejection of the One Who loved them.

And I get the fact that there are verses which emphasize the downfall of man ... but there are also verses which emphasize that natural man can know good.
.

 

[Magenta]

According to some who have posted in this thread, natural man is wholly evil

Jesus said none were good. Are you disagreeing with Jesus?

People refuse to come into the light because their deeds were evil.

Are you disagreeing with the Bible?

John 3 v 20-21 ~ Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever practices the truth comes into the Light, so that it may be seen clearly that what he has done has been accomplished in God.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Jesus said none were good. Are you disagreeing with Jesus?

no.

People refuse to come into the light because their deeds were evil.

Are you disagreeing with the Bible?

no.

God said And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is becomeas one of us, to know good and evil (Gen 3:22).

Are you disagreeing with the Bible?
.

 

[Jackson129]

Wondering if God is real is a pretty long way from believing the gospel.

But it is the beginning of it.

 

[Magenta]

But it is the beginning of it.

The Bible puts it quite differently. People know God exists. Creation reveals the work of His hands.
But the gospel is not evident in creation. People can be certain there is a God but the gospel is still
foolishness to them with their uncircumcised ears and hearts.

 

[Magenta]

God said And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil (Gen 3:22).

Are you disagreeing with the Bible?
.

Do you think Adam did not know good before he disobeyed?

Do you understand the evil he became acquainted with?

 

[Magenta]

no.
no..

Then you agree man is evil. What exactly is your complaint???

 

[Cameron143]

Yes ... Adam and Eve were no longer as God had created them. God said they know good and evil (Gen 3:22). According to some who have posted in this thread, natural man is wholly evil ... when what God said was they know good and evil ... not that they are only evil ... or that they know (or can know) only evil.

God having written the work of the law in the heart of natural man (Rom 2:15) is a safeguard for mankind so that mankind can be stirred in the depths of his being when God reveals Himself ... or comes knocking. And I believe God provides many opportunities in the life of a person to turn to Him. The fact that this world is set up to draw mankind away from God does not negate God having provided all that is needed to mankind to turn to Him. Those who reject and find themselves cast into the lake of fire will know that they have been judged appropriately due to their suppression of the truth which lead to the rejection of the One Who loved them.

And I get the fact that there are verses which emphasize the downfall of man ... but there are also verses which emphasize that natural man can know good.
.

Since I haven't stated that the natural fallen man is evil continually, not sure why this is directed towards me.

 

[Magenta]

Since I haven't stated that the natural fallen man is evil continually, not sure why this is directed towards me.

Yeah, I have not said man is wholly evil either. I wonder who that was aimed at. It seems another example of CDS.

1 Thessalonians 5 v 23-24~ May the God of peace Himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be kept sound and blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. He Who calls you is faithful, and He will do it.

 

[Magenta]

It means that as a result of man's sin, he was no longer as he was created.

Some people say nothing really changed, that is, human nature did not change, and yet, as a result of Adam's
sin, we are now born by nature children of wrath. Another dagger to the heart of the Pelagian heretics' view.
I wonder how well "children of wrath" sits with those who think they have debunked claims of the natural man.