Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

Well, there is still a condition here, 'if anyone,' which is the same as 'whosoever.' If there is a condition, then there are choices to make, and the free will to respond to it. One simply believes in Christ or not. Actually, Romans 8 was specifically for those who had already received the Spirit of God. These are they who are already IN Christ and merely contrasting the life with the Spirit and the life in the flesh. 'If' presents options, offers choices or alternatives, or simply provides the ability to choose.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore no condemnation which are in Christ Jesus...
Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you...

So this proves no inability at all.

Rewriting what the Bible specifically says doesn't work for me... the world cannot receive the Spirit of truth ... no if in that statement... The mind of the flesh is death... no if in that statement... The mind of the flesh is hostile to God ... no if in that statement. I could go on but I don't see the point since you've missed it already, and I'm not impressed when people try to tell me that the Bible doesn't mean what it says.

 

[Magenta]

The mind of the flesh does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. No IF there. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. No "ifs" in that statement either! It PLAINLY says the mind of the flesh cannot submit. Seriously. What is wrong with people??? If it can't, it is unable. Praise the Lord for enabling us.

 

[fredoheaven]

Rewriting what the Bible specifically says doesn't work for me... the world cannot receive the Spirit of truth ... no if in that statement... The mind of the flesh is death... no if in that statement... The mind of the flesh is hostile to God ... no if in that statement. I could go on but I don't see the point since you've missed it already, and I'm not impressed when people try to tell me that the Bible doesn't mean what it says.

Umm, Romans 8 has many "if" statements, if you really read it or understand it by the context. Of course, there was no statement of inability either. V.5 contrasts those who live or minds the flesh against the Spirit, yet the overall context makes it a choice, just as you do.

Well, your proof text of 'inability' is still not in the equation based on the context.

 

[fredoheaven]

The mind of the flesh does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. No IF there. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. No "ifs" in that statement either! It PLAINLY says the mind of the flesh cannot submit. Seriously. What is wrong with people??? If it can't, it is unable. Praise the Lord for enabling us.

Romans 8

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

 

[Genez]

There are a lot of Pelagian heretics on this site.

That is an easy way out of not having to deal with the challenges you have been presented.

More accurately said.

There are a lot of what you wrongly see, as being Pelagian heretics, on this site.​

You are just not understanding and seem not wanting to be bothered to think about what you have been indoctrinated with.

Who here promotes the following?
Name one.

Pelagianism, named after the monk Pelagius, emphasizes human free will and the ability to choose good and achieve salvation without the need for divine grace. It denies the concept of original sin, asserting that humans are born morally neutral and capable of living sinlessly through their own efforts. ​

​

No one here believes that.

 

[Genez]

Disobedience is part and parcel of those born after the flesh. That only changes by being born again of the Spirit. Somehow you think an incurably wicked heart brings about this change. Like other FWers, you put the cart before the horse... and then say you don't.

God's Grace stops an incurably wicked heart in its tracks.
Then, demands that one's soul make its choice, having temporarily been made free of the dominance of the flesh.

That is the only way God can hold men accountable.
And, it's the only way in which one's soul can be allowed to believe!

​

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; ​

it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. " (Eph 2:8-9)​

If salvation were of ourselves?
Doing works would have saved us!

That is what that passage was telling the religious ones.

 

[Genez]

Most people can understand that man has both a material and immaterial aspects.

Continue playing your game.
You do not even know you're doing it.

 

[Cameron143]

Continue playing your game.
You do not even know you're doing it.

Of course. Only gifted teachers like you can possibly know.

 

[Genez]

Since you have been saved have you committed a sin? If so what does that make you? Do you think being a Christian makes your sins not evil?

Sin and evil are not seen as the same thing to God.

It says, Jesus died for your sins... not died for your evil

Sin is sin.
Evil justifies what is sin.

Sin is to be recognized by the believer and named to the Lord for forgiveness and purification. (1 John 1:9)
Evil would find ways to deny that a sin was a sin.

 

[Magenta]

Umm, Romans 8 has many "if" statements, if you really read it or understand it by the context. Of course, there was no statement of inability either. V.5 contrasts those who live or minds the flesh against the Spirit, yet the overall context makes it a choice, just as you do.

Well, your proof text of 'inability' is still not in the equation based on the context.

For you, cannot means can. Got it.

God's Word says, it cannot. You say, no, it can.

Guess who I believe?

I'll give you a clue:

It sure as heck ain't you!

The world cannot receive the Spirit of Truth.

Thank you, Jesus, for calling me out of the world.

 

[Genez]

Of course. Only gifted teachers like you can possibly know.

And folks!.. The game playing continues from the Cameron.

Cameron, you should keep a black box with a lid on it in your brain, to throw into it certain thoughts you have.

On the box, should be written... "Resentments."

You do get resentful, sir.
And, try expressing it in a somewhat cutesy way.

It is usually a characteristic some developed in childhood.

 

[sawdust]

God having written the work of the law in the heart of natural man (Rom 2:15) is a safeguard for mankind so that mankind can be stirred in the depths of his being when God reveals Himself ... or comes knocking..

Ecclesiastes 3:11
He has made everything suited to its time; also, he has given human beings an awareness of eternity; but in such a way that they can’t fully comprehend, from beginning to end, the things God does.

 

[Cameron143]

And folks!.. The game playing continues from the Cameron.

Cameron, you should keep a black box with a lid on it in your brain, to throw into it certain thoughts you have.

On the box, should be written... "Resentments."

You do get resentful, sir.
And, try expressing it in a somewhat cutesy way.

It is usually a characteristic some developed in childhood.

I would have thought such a gifted teacher like yourself would have better discernment. Perhaps, if you were such a loving sage, you would have covered what you believed was a fault rather than announce it.

 

[Genez]

I would have thought such a gifted teacher like yourself would have better discernment. Perhaps, if you were such a loving sage, you would have covered what you believed was a fault rather than announce it.

Expose it. (Ephesians 5:11)
Not, announce it.

Others here may not have been able to nail down what you do.
It helps them to know they are not alone.

 

[fredoheaven]

For you, cannot means can. Got it.

God's Word says, it cannot. You say, no, it can.

Guess who I believe?

I'll give you a clue:

It sure as heck ain't you!

The world cannot receive the Spirit of Truth.

Thank you, Jesus, for calling me out of the world.

You may repeat reading the scripture in Romans 8, but what I see is 'If ability" and not 'inability".

 

[Cameron143]

Expose it. (Ephesians 5:11)
Not, announce it.

Others here may not have been able to nail down what you do.
It helps them to know they are not alone.

And folks...that's an announcement. See, I was right about that discernment part. Also, about that loving part.

 

[Kroogz]

That rejection of salvation of the fallen angels was the reason for Satan's wager over Job. (will explain if asked).

I will ask and appreciate your insight brother.

 

[Magenta]

You may repeat reading the scripture in Romans 8, but what I see is 'If ability" and not 'inability".

There is no if in many of those statements but you insist on inserting one anyways.

I cannot agree with your doing so. That doesn't mean I can, and there is no if there, either.

John 14 v 17a, Romans 8 v 6-9 ~ “Inability” in Bible The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
Try reading the verses without your bastardizations. Are you unable to???

 

[Kroogz]

Why do you lie so much?

I am totally depraved! The Light of the Lord Jesus Christ has Absolutlely no chance against the Insurmountable power of Satans darkness.

I don't lie about your false theology, I and MANY others bring the light to your darkness.

 

[NotMakingThisUp]

Rewriting what the Bible specifically says doesn't work for me... the world cannot receive the Spirit of truth ... no if in that statement... The mind of the flesh is death... no if in that statement... The mind of the flesh is hostile to God ... no if in that statement. I could go on but I don't see the point since you've missed it already, and I'm not impressed when people try to tell me that the Bible doesn't mean what it says.

I was two Forums away and heard the ‘rant in his holy name’ from there!
Even Keely was unnerved.
Keely, the Christian cat told me that in Hebrew, Israel means, “Those who struggle with God.”
It’s not a struggle for God. It’s not a struggle against God.
It’s a struggle with God and being with God this way leaves out the ‘God debate’ for altogether for her.

A debate is a game where when some get the best answer award, the game is over.
The God debate is far from over.
Keely’s struggle with God is a game that’s also far from over.
It’s a game of questioning. Not answering. Insight.
There’s more power in the question. (it’s your life, how great are you willing to have it?).
Believing with God her way is a worthy struggle. It’s Keely mountain with no top and she in it for the climb.
Gotta go now.….litter box.