Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Rufus]

studier said:


Thanks for stating the verse. I knew where it was because it's the only one I know of that makes that statement.

Why does Paul say they were darkness?

Because God is Light and there is no darkness in Him, which I suppose kinda makes man entirely different from his Creator and at odds with Him?

P.S.
Plus the fact that dead don't have very good eyesight and so everything in their spiritual world can only be darkness.

 

[Rufus]

Only God can not fail. = Good.

Jesus at that moment in time when asked that question was not functioning as God.
He was functioning as a sinless man. A man who could experience being tempted.
He made himself become as Adam before the fall...

Jesus had to become that in order to qualify to die in our place for our sins.

Who, being in very nature God,​

did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;​

rather, he made himself nothing​

by taking the very nature of a servant,​

being made in human likeness.​

And being found in appearance as a man,​

he humbled himself​

by becoming obedient to death—​

even death on a cross!​

​

Philippians 2:6-8​

​

​

Also to be noted...
God can not die.
Only God who cannot die is good.

So, Jesus could not resume being as God until after He finished His work of dying on the Cross!

“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. ​

“No one is good—except God alone." ​

​

grace and peace ........

So, Jesus was not always the very God of God!? He had his on and off moments, did he? When exactly did he cease being divine?

 

[GWH]

Yup! Studier just glibly and nonchalantly turned Jesus' statement in Jn 5:21 that emphasizes his divine prerogative by making his "prerogative" contingent upon man. But this is the inevitable outcome of his "theology" of Humanism.

No, it is the result of paying attention to Scripture teaching that God is just/does not show favoritism (cf. Eph. 6:9, Col. 3:25, 1Pet. 1:17)
as well as to GW teaching that God loves everyone--the pearls (Matt. 7:6): 1John 4:7-12, Rom. 5:8, Matt. 5:44&48, Gal. 5:22, Eph. 3:17b-19 & 5:1-2, 1Tim. 2:3-4, which describe God’s nature, which He promises never to change (Mal. 3:6, Jam. 1:17, Num. 23:19, 1Sam. 15:29).

 

[Magenta]

Yup! Studier just glibly and nonchalantly turned Jesus' statement in Jn 5:21 that emphasizes his divine prerogative by making his "prerogative" contingent upon man. But this is the inevitable outcome of his "theology" of Humanism.

They themselves do not even know what he teaches! Since he denied that his belief is that the flesh brings forth fruit unto life. That is what the whole free will crowd adheres to: the man without the indwelling Holy Spirit of God, otherwise known as the natural man and/or the man of the flesh, the one dead in his trespasses and sins, decides with his incurably wicked heart to believe the foolishness of the gospel while yet an enemy of God opposed to the spiritual things of God which he can neither receive nor comprehend. Yes, he decides to believe what he cannot understand and then God enables him by raising him to new life with a heart capable of loving God in return.

Absolutely bizarre.

 

[Rufus]

Nah. The claim is that the GOSPEL is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes.

The Gospel is the good news that pricks the heart of people, such as on Pentecost.

But not the hearts of all people it doesn't!

 

[GWH]

They themselves do not even know what he teaches! Since he denied that his belief is that the flesh brings forth fruit unto life. That is what the whole free will crowd adheres to: the man without the indwelling Holy Spirit of God, otherwise known as the natural man and/or the man of the flesh, the one dead in his trespasses and sins, decides with his incurably wicked heart to believe the foolishness of the gospel while yet an enemy of God opposed to the spiritual things of God which he can neither receive nor comprehend. Yes, he decides to believe what he cannot understand and then God enables him, raises him to new life and gives him a heart capable of loving God in return.

Re "the natural man and/or the man of the flesh, the one dead in his trespasses and sins, decides with his incurably wicked heart to believe the foolishness of the gospel": Yep, that is what happened to you, except for being a wo-man.

 

[Hakawaka]

Eph 2:1-9

2 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Please point out anything in the above scripture that proclaims man must do anything to be renewed in Christ, one little thing on the part of man to go from a child of wrath to being made alive together with Christ !
We do not choose, it is given!

Why does it have to be that specific chapter? Just the chapter PRIOR Ephesians 1:13 mentions faith.

John 1:12 mentions faith
John 3:16 mentions faith
Acts 16:31 mentions faith
Romans 4 mentions faith
Romans 5:1 mentions faith
Romans 3:25-28 mentions faith

The ENTIRE BIBLE is all about faith.

John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing, ye might have life through His name.

The entire book of John was written for the reason that people reading it might be persuaded and believe that Jesus is the Christ. And notice the ORDER:

BELIEVING YE MIGHT HAVE LIFE <- First belief, then life.

 

[Hakawaka]

It does. Folks just supress the knowledge of God AND refuse to believe cause their deeds were evil.

But not the hearts of all people it doesn't!

 

[Genez]

That's because you're so duplicitous and love to talk out of both sides of your mouth. .

There goes your excuse, in the form of a lie, to make it look like you have one.

 

[lrs68]

If God gives a person the ability to understand that in order to get to Heaven they need God..

Which the majority of the Verses being used by both sides are stating.

How does that = that person is a believer?

Nothing in those verses say they always become believers.

But one side thinks if God makes you understand you need God that no matter what you will become a believer because God can't fail.

But there's no Verses that claim everyone who God makes understand ends up being Saved.

Where did that Idealism originate from?

 

[Rufus]

No, it is the result of paying attention to Scripture teaching that God is just/does not show favoritism (cf. Eph. 6:9, Col. 3:25, 1Pet. 1:17) as well as to GW teaching that God loves everyone--the pearls (Matt. 7:6): 1John 4:7-12, Rom. 5:8, Matt. 5:44&48, Gal. 5:22, Eph. 3:17b-19 & 5:1-2, 1Tim. 2:3-4, which describe God’s nature, which He promises never to change (Mal. 3:6, Jam. 1:17, Num. 23:19, 1Sam. 15:29).

I suppose Jesus wasn't "paying attention" to theology when he made his UNQUALIFIED statement in Jn 5:21. So...Since he ignored his own scriptures, I will, too. And besides, Jesus' miracle in John 9 squares beautifully with Jn 5:21.

And who told you that God loves "everyone" w/o exception? The father of lies? These passages say differently: Lev 26:30; Deut 25:15; Job 21:22; Ps 5:5-6; 11:5; 15:1-5; 73:18-20; 95:10-11; 106:40; 107:40; Prov 3:32; 6:16-19; 11:20; 2Chron 19:2; Isa 66:24; Jer 12:8; 16:5; Lam 2:6-7; Hos 9:15; Nah 1:14; Mal 1:2-3; Dan 12:2; Mat 7:23; Rom 9:13.

You hypocrite! Why haven't YOU "been paying attention to Scripture"?

And I'm still waiting on a coherent answer to my question on how can it possible that God show favoritism to any sinner since all men are sinners? What would be the basis for God's favoritism that you allege?

 

[Magenta]

"Free will" in the Bible? ~ Freedom is something believers are called to (Galatians 5 verse 13). We need Jesus to “set us free” (Galatians 5 verse 1). If Jesus has not freed us from the bondage of sin, then we are still slaves to sin (Romans 6 verses 6-7). Freedom is found in the presence of the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3 verse 17). Only Jesus can give us true freedom (John 8 verse 36). Only through His lovingkindness can we truly make choices unfettered by a nature that is inherently hostile toward God.

 

[Rufus]

There goes your excuse, in the form of a lie, to make it look like you have one.

All the lies on this thread come from you and your ilk. I just call everyone out on them as I see them.

 

[Genez]

So, Jesus was not always the very God of God!? He had his on and off moments, did he? When exactly did he cease being divine?

He chose to deny Himself His right to function as God.
It would be required if He were to die in our place.

Satan knew something was up.
That is why Satan tempted Jesus to take back up His powers of Deity to turn the stones into bread.
Satan knew who Jesus was before the Incarnation....

The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”​

​

The Greek tense for the word "if" is a class condition that was saying Satan knew Jesus was the Son of God.
Here is what we don't see because most pastors do not know the Greek class conditions.

The tempter came to him and said...​

​

“If you are the Son of God (and you are), tell these stones to become bread.”​

Satan was confronting Jesus, knowing full well that Jesus was God if He chose to be, but was choosing not to be.

Satan was tempting Jesus to stop being as a man, as to disqualify Jesus from dying in our place as a man for all men!



It is amazing what we can learn if we find a competent pastor-teacher.

Few exist.

 

[Rufus]

If God gives a person the ability to understand that in order to get to Heaven they need God..

Which the majority of the Verses being used by both sides are stating.

How does that = that person is a believer?

Nothing in those verses say they always become believers.

But one side thinks if God makes you understand you need God that no matter what you will become a believer because God can't fail.

But there's no Verses that claim everyone who God makes understand ends up being Saved.

Where did that Idealism originate from?

So, I suppose you have plenty of "Verses" that claim that everyone to whom God has not granted understanding can still wind up being saved?

 

[Rufus]

He chose to deny Himself His right to function as God.
It would be required if He were to die in our place.

Satan knew something was up.
That is why Satan tempted Jesus to take back up His powers of Deity to turn the stones into bread.
Satan knew who Jesus was before the Incarnation....

The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”​

​

The Greek tense for the word "if" is a class condition that was saying Satan knew Jesus was the Son of God.
Here is what we don't see because most pastors do not know the Greek class conditions.

The tempter came to him and said...​

​

“If you are the Son of God (and you are), tell these stones to become bread.”​

Satan was confronting Jesus, knowing full well that Jesus was God if He chose to be, but was choosing not to be.

Satan was tempting Jesus to stop being as a man, as to disqualify Jesus from dying in our place as a man for all men!



It is amazing what we can learn if we find a competent pastor-teacher.

Few exist.

So you equate Jesus' self-denial of function as Him also denying his very essence (the incarnation)?

 

[lrs68]

So, I suppose you have plenty of "Verses" that claim that everyone to whom God has not granted understanding can still wind up being saved?

The Holy Spirit is good at showing us the big picture but nowhere is there either an example or assumption that everyone God makes understand actually obeys God and becomes Saved.

So why say something that God doesn't say?

 

[cv5]

Scripture indicates that God graces every sinful soul with the ability or opportunity to seek salvation (Matt. 7:7, cf. 1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11), which might be called “seeking grace” (Tit. 2:11). As Hebrews 11:6 states: “he [God] rewards those who earnestly seek him” (cf. Isa. 45:19). Seeking God is the beginning of saving faith, and not seeking God or rejecting His salvation in Christ is the essence of evil atheism or faith in I-dolatry (Rom. 3:11, 1:18-23).

All humans sin, but every sinner has the opportunity to repent/have saving faith (per Rom. 1:20, 2:7, 3:21-22, 4:16 & 5:8-19). Thus, sinful humanity retains the image of God or moral free will, so every normal adult soul is able by faith to choose to seek salvation–or not (cf. Deut. 30:19).

Super-determinist soundbites are becoming tedious. And are being struck down one after another.

 

[Magenta]

So, I suppose you have plenty of "Verses" that claim that everyone to whom God has not granted understanding can still wind up being saved?

The free will crowd have zero verses saying the dead-in-trespasses person is free to choose.

 

[NightTwister]

Super-determinist soundbites are becoming tedious. And are being struck down one after another.

What is "super-determinist" as opposed to just "determinist?"