Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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Thanks for stating the verse. I knew where it was because it's the only one I know of that makes that statement.

Why does Paul say they were darkness?
John 3:19-21
And this is the verdict: The Light has come into the world, but men loved the darkness rather than the Light because their deeds
were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.


Colossians 1:13
He has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of His beloved Son,


Romans 13:12
The night is nearly over; the day has drawn near. So let us lay aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light.


2 Corinthians 6:14
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership can righteousness
have with wickedness? Or what fellowship does light have with darkness?


1 Thessalonians 5:5
For you are all sons of the light and sons of the day; we do not belong to the night or to the darkness.


John 12:35-36
Then Jesus told them, “For a little while longer, the Light will be among you. Walk while you have the Light, so that darkness will not overtake you. The one who walks in the darkness does not know where he is going. While you have the Light, believe in the Light, so that you may become sons of light.” After Jesus had spoken these things, He went away and was hidden from them.


Acts 26:18
to open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those sanctified by faith in Me.’


Isaiah 9:2
The people walking in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of the shadow of death, a light has dawned.


Ephesians 4:18
Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God
through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:


Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers,
against
the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

2 Corinthians 4:6
For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” made His light shine in our hearts
to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
 
Scripture indicates that God graces every sinful soul with the ability or opportunity to seek salvation (Matt. 7:7, cf. 1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11), which might be called “seeking grace” (Tit. 2:11). As Hebrews 11:6 states: “he [God] rewards those who earnestly seek him” (cf. Isa. 45:19). Seeking God is the beginning of saving faith, and not seeking God or rejecting His salvation in Christ is the essence of evil atheism or faith in I-dolatry (Rom. 3:11, 1:18-23).

All humans sin, but every sinner has the opportunity to repent/have saving faith (per Rom. 1:20, 2:7, 3:21-22, 4:16 & 5:8-19). Thus, sinful humanity retains the image of God or moral free will, so every normal adult soul is able by faith to choose to seek salvation–or not (cf. Deut. 30:19).

I'd add in order to head off the typical non-harmonized rebuttal from Rom3 that Paul in Rom3 is quoting Psalms where Perfect God is looking down from Heaven and seeing mainly imperfect and inconsistent seeking as well as no seeking by the fools who say there is no God. Those Psalms include discussion of both the fools who say there is no God and of God's people, so Paul is not meaning that no man seeks God. He's including that none seek God perfectly even consistently as can be seen throughout the history of Israel. As the NC explains to us, God will have the perfection He wills and will have it of men in volitional union with His Perfect Son. They shall be perfect as their Father in Heavan is Perfect just as His Perfect Son said Matt5:48.

My take FWIW.
 
I'd add in order to head off the typical non-harmonized rebuttal from Rom3 that Paul in Rom3 is quoting Psalms where Perfect God is looking down from Heaven and seeing mainly imperfect and inconsistent seeking as well as no seeking by the fools who say there is no God. Those Psalms include discussion of both the fools who say there is no God and of God's people, so Paul is not meaning that no man seeks God. He's including that none seek God perfectly even consistently as can be seen throughout the history of Israel. As the NC explains to us, God will have the perfection He wills and will have it of men in volitional union with His Perfect Son. They shall be perfect as their Father in Heavan is Perfect just as His Perfect Son said Matt5:48.

My take FWIW.
It ain't worth much, I'll give you that. There are none good is repeated throughout Scripture, Jesus says so without referring back to any previous text, it is a simple fact, but you love to demolish the main, plain, and simple meaning of all have sinned and claim it means something else. You are so out of touch with what Scripture teaches and your departures from it you cannot even see that you teach the flesh brings forth something good when the Bible says the opposite. You deny the very thing you do, you misrepresent Scripture, you misrepresent what others believe, and you misrepresent yourself. Is there no end to your depravity???
 
I'd add in order to head off the typical non-harmonized rebuttal from Rom3 that Paul in Rom3 is quoting Psalms where Perfect God is looking down from Heaven and seeing mainly imperfect and inconsistent seeking as well as no seeking by the fools who say there is no God. Those Psalms include discussion of both the fools who say there is no God and of God's people, so Paul is not meaning that no man seeks God. He's including that none seek God perfectly even consistently as can be seen throughout the history of Israel. As the NC explains to us, God will have the perfection He wills and will have it of men in volitional union with His Perfect Son. They shall be perfect as their Father in Heavan is Perfect just as His Perfect Son said Matt5:48.

My take FWIW.

Agreed, and: "Fools assume there is no God and thus no one who is a fool seeks God
(but some are not totally depraved/foolish", such as the writer of the Psalms).
 
Let's break it down: people are either saved, or lost.
The saved are slaves to righteousness.
The lost are slaves to sin.
Oh, yes, we have people rewriting the Bible to claim it does not mean what
it says, but for this exercise we will simply accept what Scripture says.
The free will claim is that slaves to sin with their incurably wicked heart, and without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit of God which means they are in the flesh only, choose to believe what is foolishness to them while under the power and influence of the devil.
So they have the man of flesh bringing forth fruit to life. No amount of obfuscation can hide this fact.
On the other hand, Scripture does say nothing good dwells in the flesh and it brings forth fruit unto death.
It serves the law of sin after all.
But still they deny this is what they do. And it is at the heart of this whole "debate."
 
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allhavesinned.png

“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone. Mark ch. 10 verse 18 and Luke ch. 18 verse 19 “There is only One who is good.” Matthew ch. 19 verse 17b. There is no one who does good. fr Psalm ch. 14. There is no one righteous, not even one. Romans ch. 3 verse 10. They are corrupt; their ways are vile. There is no one who does good. All have turned away, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one. fr Psalm ch. 53 verses 1-3. Surely there is no righteous man on earth who does good and never sins. Ecclesiastes ch. 7 verse 20. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
 
allhavesinned.png

“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone. Mark ch. 10 verse 18 and Luke ch. 18 verse 19 “There is only One who is good.” Matthew ch. 19 verse 17b. There is no one who does good. fr Psalm ch. 14. There is no one righteous, not even one. Romans ch. 3 verse 10. They are corrupt; their ways are vile. There is no one who does good. All have turned away, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one. fr Psalm ch. 53 verses 1-3. Surely there is no righteous man on earth who does good and never sins. Ecclesiastes ch. 7 verse 20. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
Only God can not fail. = Good.

Jesus at that moment in time when asked that question was not functioning as God.
He was functioning as a sinless man. A man who could experience being tempted.
He made himself become as Adam before the fall...

Jesus had to become that in order to qualify to die in our place for our sins.


Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
Philippians 2:6-8​

Also to be noted...
God can not die.
Only God who cannot die is good.

So, Jesus could not resume being as God until after He finished His work of dying on the Cross!


“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered.
“No one is good—except God alone."

grace and peace ........
 
Yes, Scripture does say it is God's will and desire not man's... People don't decide to believe what is foolishness to them.

1-Corinthians4-7b-John3-27-Romans9-15-16s.png

1 Corinthians 4 verse 7b; John 3 verse 27; Romans 9 verses 15-16 ~ What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did also receive it, why do you boast as not having received it? John replied, "A man can receive only that which is given him from heaven." "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So then, it does not depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.
:)


Well, no matter who does what or what draws what, we preach the gospel and we will tell people to accept Christ. If God rejects them or if man rejects God, it doesn't matter to me, the Great Commission is a mission to reach all people. As to who has the will, we don't have the privilege to choose the so-called elect, so we preach to all in hopes that either they accept Christ or God chose them. Either way, we just preach to come to Christ. Or pray that God has mercy and pushes people into Christ.

The scripture quoted in the images speaks of God's mercy and sovereignty. Very true as God has every right and authority to do as He wants BUT who has God shown mercy? ALL who would believe in the Son. God has shown mercy by Jesus giving His life on the cross for all who would just believe in Him.

Lamentations 3:22-23 ESV
The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases; his mercies never come to an end; they are new every morning; great is your faithfulness.

GOD GIVES TO JESUS

In the context of John 17,

John 17:8
New International Version

8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.

The ones given are those who accept God's Word and believe.

I don't see a gospel without free will. It is a strange doctrine of unrelenting grace and forced preservation. It just seems to make God the author of evil if Satan was created to rebel and that men were also created to rebel. That Adam had no choice but to choose the forbidden fruit. It won't ever make sense to me.

Sure there are scriptures that at first glance seem to speak against free will but I have yet to hear how they harmonize with the scriptures that speak of choice, to abide, remain, to believe, to have faith, etc.

How does a non-free will thinker harmonize the scriptures that demand choice and speak of all of mankind having the same opportunity to be saved?

Or is it simply predestined to God hating one over the other just as some interpret God hating Cain.

One babe is destined for Hell while another is destined for Heaven.

If some are destined for evil then is it really just to judge them on something predetermined?

These are typically the conclusions I think of when people erase free will.

It would be easy to accept a non-free will belief if there weren't so many scriptures that demand either choice or to abide.
 
And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool [afternoon breeze] of the day,
so the man and his wife hid and kept themselves hidden from the presence of the Lord God among the trees
of the garden."
Genesis 3:8

They did not see Him.
They knew the sounds of His footsteps.

It is believed the Lord used to teach Adam in the cool part of the day.
She was with Adam when the Lord arrived.

Knowing the sound of his footsteps indicates they had been in presence before!

Of course "she was with Adam" since they fled together and hid themselves together after they sinned. However, there is no evidence in the Genesis narrative that Eve had pre-Fall empirical evidence of God as Adam did.
 
I don't see a gospel without free will. It is a strange doctrine of unrelenting grace and forced preservation.
Man's will is set free by Christ. Do you really not see that? Scripture teaches that the whole world is under the power and influence of the devil. Is he influencing people to believe? Hardly. Captive to the will of the devil you see as freedom to choose God? How strange that is. Why do people always jump to either people are free to choose when they are enemies of and hostile to God or they are forced to believe??? Scripture says God enables people. Your contradiction is agreeing with man's depravity which is his inability. The Bible does teach that. Then you say man is able to choose before being set free. That with his wicked heat he decides to believe that which he is opposed to. That actually makes no sense and is what the free will crowd teaches and then they deny it. A bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit. That is what the Bible teaches and it gets denied over and over and over again. Now we have members of the free will crowd telling us the none good only applies to atheists. How ridiculous is that? All have sinned and fall short. That includes every stripe of unbeliever. It is everyone.

freedomfrombondage.png

from Romans 5 verse 10 / John 8 verses 31b-32 / Ephesians 5 verse 8 / 1 Thessalonians 5 verse 5 / Romans 6 verse 18 / John 8 verse 36 ~ While we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to Him through the death of His Son. “If you continue in My word, you are truly My disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” You were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light. You are all sons of the light and sons of the day; we do not belong to the night or to the darkness. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. If the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.
 
That is just the opposite of what I said.
You seem to have this consistent ability to misunderstand things.

That's because you're so duplicitous and love to talk out of both sides of your mouth. Your idea of God's efficacious grace is that He gave all mankind the "freedom" to choose Him or not choose him, which means the efficacy of God's grace (as you understand it) is the very reason the vast majority of the world has rejected the gospel and has already been condemned and is still hell-bound. I suppose all the helpless and hopeless souls in hell have God to thank for all eternity for such marvelous grace that put them there to suffer in torment forever -- grace that is supposed to reflect God's favor, approval and urgently needed assistance. With friends like your god who needs enemies? :rolleyes:
Well, no matter who does what or what draws what, we preach the gospel and we will tell people to accept Christ. If God rejects them or if man rejects God, it doesn't matter to me, the Great Commission is a mission to reach all people. As to who has the will, we don't have the privilege to choose the so-called elect, so we preach to all in hopes that either they accept Christ or God chose them. Either way, we just preach to come to Christ. Or pray that God has mercy and pushes people into Christ.

The scripture quoted in the images speaks of God's mercy and sovereignty. Very true as God has every right and authority to do as He wants BUT who has God shown mercy? ALL who would believe in the Son. God has shown mercy by Jesus giving His life on the cross for all who would just believe in Him.

Lamentations 3:22-23 ESV
The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases; his mercies never come to an end; they are new every morning; great is your faithfulness.

GOD GIVES TO JESUS

In the context of John 17,

John 17:8
New International Version

8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.

The ones given are those who accept God's Word and believe.

I don't see a gospel without free will. It is a strange doctrine of unrelenting grace and forced preservation. It just seems to make God the author of evil if Satan was created to rebel and that men were also created to rebel. That Adam had no choice but to choose the forbidden fruit. It won't ever make sense to me.

Sure there are scriptures that at first glance seem to speak against free will but I have yet to hear how they harmonize with the scriptures that speak of choice, to abide, remain, to believe, to have faith, etc.

How does a non-free will thinker harmonize the scriptures that demand choice and speak of all of mankind having the same opportunity to be saved?

Or is it simply predestined to God hating one over the other just as some interpret God hating Cain.

One babe is destined for Hell while another is destined for Heaven.

If some are destined for evil then is it really just to judge them on something predetermined?

These are typically the conclusions I think of when people erase free will.

It would be easy to accept a non-free will belief if there weren't so many scriptures that demand either choice or to abide.


Tell me: Has God ever purposed to actually save all mankind w/o exception?

What makes you think that what I bolded would be the basis for divine judgment? Here's a novel idea: How about their personal sins and their knowledge of their own sinfulness being the fundamental reasons for their judgment? Furthermore, God is not the author of anyone's sin (evil, wrongdoings, etc.) And sinners are not entitled to God's grace or mercy. These are His gifts to do with as He pleases.
 
John8-36plus-Romans8-2s.png

John 8 v 36 plus Romans 8 v 2 If the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set you free from the law of sin and death.
This is the one I meant to post :)
 
The free will claim is that man is born with everything he needs to decide to believe, despite everything said to the contrary in Scripture.
.
Nah. The claim is that the GOSPEL is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes.

The Gospel is the good news that pricks the heart of people, such as on Pentecost.
 
As usual, you miss-state what was posted! Yes, you must TAKE HOLD of the gift, yes you must BELIEVE and TRUST in God. However, the ability to do these things are all part of the gift that you receive by God's grace. See: Eph 2:1-9. God does it ALL! He leaves nothing to chance!
But you feel the need to rob Him of the mercy and grace that He pours out on all His elect!
Wanna rethink that? If God 'does it all' then

1. Everyone would be saved because its God's will everyone is saved [1 Timothy 2:4]
2. God is doing a terrible job at sanctifying people. Why does it take so long and why is it so inefficient? You would think that an Almighty God would have better results than this. OR Could it be that you guys are just wrong, and WE are told by God to repent, God is with us throughout the process of sanctification and gives us the grace to continue on. THAT is the real reason why the sanctification is so slow, because WE are at fault, not God.
3. There would be no need for commands to believe and repent. I realize you guys have philosophical work arounds about God ordaining the means of how He does it and all that, but in practice, this makes language completely meaningless and makes God a cruel ant-torturer. He commands people to repent, He is saying that He keeps stretching His hands towards a rebellious people, and He is angry with Israel, and the reason for it? Because He hasnt given them the gift of repentance and faith, its God's fault they arent turning.
God is angry at His own decree.

This is so dumb, its sad to see many highly intelligent witty people like James White, R.C. Sproul, John MacArthur, Voddie Bauchman fall for this. I guess they were just educated out of their common sense.
 
Let's break it down: people are either saved, or lost.
The saved are slaves to righteousness.
The lost are slaves to sin.
Oh, yes, we have people rewriting the Bible to claim it does not mean what
it says, but for this exercise we will simply accept what Scripture says.
The free will claim is that slaves to sin with their incurably wicked heart, and without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit of God which means they are in the flesh only, choose to believe what is foolishness to them while under the power and influence of the devil.
So they have the man of flesh bringing forth fruit to life. No amount of obfuscation can hide this fact.
On the other hand, Scripture does say nothing good dwells in the flesh and it brings forth fruit unto death.
It serves the law of sin after all.
But still they deny this is what they do. And it is at the heart of this whole "debate."

Re "The lost are slaves to sin. Oh, yes, we have people rewriting the Bible to claim it does not mean what
it says, but for this exercise we will simply accept what Scripture says."

Hardly! Here is what Scripture in Romans 1:16-6:23 says:

1. Romans 1:16 says the Gospel reveals that (s/e) is for “everyone who believes”, both Jew and Gentile.

2. Romans 1:17 describes s/e as “righteousness from God” that is by faith “from first to last” or from creation until the end.

3. Romans 2:4 teaches that God’s kindness or patience with sinners is meant to lead them toward repentance, which implies that sinners are able to repent because of God’s leading.

4. Romans 2:5 warns that those who do not repent but instead stubbornly resist God’s leading are storing up wrath against themselves for the day when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed, which implies that God enables sinners to repent–or not (cf. Deut. 30:19).

5. Romans 2:6 affirms what is called karma by saying that “God will give to each person according to what he has done”, which (in Gal. 6:7-9) is called reaping what a person sows.

6. Romans 2:7 speaks of the need for “persistence in doing good” and seeking glory, honor and immortality in order to receive s/e or eternal life, which echoes what Jesus commanded (in Matt. 7:7) and connects with the doctrine of perseverance (cf. Heb. 10:36 & Jam. 1:3-4).

7. Romans 2:11 teaches that “God does not show favoritism” (cf. Eph. 6:9, Col. 3:25, 1Pet. 1:17), which is how God judges people justly, so the fact that some sinners ignore God’s Gospel indicates that His will or leading is resistible because of MFW.

8. Romans 2:15 teaches that sinful souls have a conscience or awareness of “the requirements of the law”, which may be combined with Romans 1:20 to teach that God’s power and moral nature or will may be perceived via creation and conscience (called natural revelation), thus those unfamiliar with God’s Word in Scripture have no good reason for resisting divine leading and choosing atheism/evil.

9. Romans 3:20-21 states the law makes souls conscious of sin and that “the Law and Prophets testify” or prepare the way for the new revelation of righteousness from God apart from the Law, which takes up where Romans 1:17 left off.

10. Romans 3:22a says that “righteousness from God” or s/e comes through faith “in Jesus Christ” (cf. Eph. 2:8), a phrase Paul used eleven times in Ephesians 1:3-14 to indicate s/e.

11. Romans 3:22b says that God’s righteousness is given “to all who believe—there is no difference”” signifying that all sinners may believe or be s/e (cf. 1Tim. 2:3-4, John 3:16, Tit. 2:11), because there is no favoritism (#7).

12. Romans 3:23 teaches that “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God”, meaning that no one can be good enough to earn salvation because of their own merit.

13. Romans 3:24 says sinners “are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus” (via faith per v.22, cf. 3:27-28); s/e is free because Christ paid the price/cost.

14. Romans 3:25a explains redemption as being “a sacrifice of atonement” for those who have faith in Christ’s work of dying in their place.

15. Romans 3:25b further explains that God demonstrated his just patience (#3) or forbearance in leaving unpunished those sins committed before the revealing of the Gospel (foreshadowed in Gen. 22:8 & 13), implying that sinners had/have the opportunity to believe and be s/e thereby demonstrating God’s justice/not showing favoritism (#11).

16. Romans 3:26 continues to emphasize divine justice by declaring it three ways (“justice…, just…, justifies”), which justness is synonymous with righteousness (2Thes. 1:5-6, Heb. 6:10).

17. Romans 4:1-25 presents Abraham as a Gentile who became the physical father of the Jews and the spiritual father of all who choose to have faith in God/Christ.

18. Romans 5:1 echoes Eph. 2:8 by describing s/e as justification through faith, Eph. 1:5 & 7 by using the phrase “through Jesus Christ”, and Eph. 2:14 by describing s/e as having peace with God.

19. Romans 5:2 & 5 also echo Eph. 2:18 & 3:1 by describing s/e as having access to God’s grace via the Holy Spirit.

20. Romans 5:6-10 states that God’s love (cf. kindness in #3) for the ungodly, for sinners and for His enemies is demonstrated by Christ dying for their s/e or justification/reconciliation.

21. Romans 5:12-21 describes s/e in corporate terms, saying that–like the first man–all (many?) men also sinned and died, and God’s grace comes to all (many?) because of Jesus Christ.

22. Romans 6:1-14 describes s/e in terms of Christians being united with Christ’s death and resurrection, so they who are under grace should not allow sin to reign in their bodies but should instead serve God as instruments of righteousness.

23. Romans 6:15-23 describes s/e in terms of being slaves to whom one willingly obeys, whether to sin or to obedience of God’s teaching that leads to righteousness, which results in eternal life “in Christ Jesus our Lord” (cf. #10).
 
You're again alleging you understand how I view grace and that it's incorrect. Same allegations.

Does monergism say men work with God in the salvation process like you have in your explanation of that verse?

Synergism includes human response to God's grace/power. So, if monergism does also, then what's the point of all your allegations? And since monos ergon means "alone work" or "the work of one" then it sounds like you're confusing the 2 contrasting words and concepts of alone vs. together.

Jesus wishes to give life to those who choose to believe in and follow Him. This is pretty simple. and very clear in Scripture.

Nice spin, Mr. Spinmiester. You magically transform Jesus' divine prerogative into a human will contingency; yet Jn 5:21 does not say what you have said above. And I bet you do the same thing with the sovereiegnty of God's grace teaching in Rom 9:15-21, right? And besides, the drivel you just wrote was certainly not the case with the blind man in John 9, is it? Jesus gave physical sight to and later spiritually saved the blind man because he chose to first believe in and follow Jesus!? Talk about putting the cart before the horse! The blind man instigated his own salvation by his "freewill" and Jesus simply snatched that bait and responded to him! :rolleyes:

You're another FWer who should strive to let your brain catch up to your fingers.
 
Nice spin, Mr. Spinmiester. You magically transform Jesus' divine prerogative into a human will contingency; yet Jn 5:21 does not say what you have said above. And I bet you do the same thing with the sovereiegnty of God's grace teaching in Rom 9:15-21, right? And besides, the drivel you just wrote was certainly not the case with the blind man in John 9, is it? Jesus gave physical sight to and later spiritually saved the blind man because he chose to first believe in and follow Jesus!? Talk about putting the cart before the horse! The blind man instigated his own salvation by his "freewill" and Jesus simply snatched that bait and responded to him! :rolleyes:

You're another FWer who should strive to let your brain catch up to your fingers.
The free will crowd claims just keep getting more and more bizarre..:censored:

"Only atheists choose to sin." How do they arrive at such utter nonsense?

Oh, yes, they keep telling us that there are none good refers back to a specific Psalm when that truth is repeated from the beginning of the Bible to the very end. Man's heart is incurably wicked. Anything not of faith is sin. They rewrite whatever dos not suit them.

When there was only one man, he was good, and then he was not. All are born in him and need to be reborn in Christ.
 
Wanna rethink that? If God 'does it all' then

1. Everyone would be saved because its God's will everyone is saved [1 Timothy 2:4]
2. God is doing a terrible job at sanctifying people. Why does it take so long and why is it so inefficient? You would think that an Almighty God would have better results than this. OR Could it be that you guys are just wrong, and WE are told by God to repent, God is with us throughout the process of sanctification and gives us the grace to continue on. THAT is the real reason why the sanctification is so slow, because WE are at fault, not God.
3. There would be no need for commands to believe and repent. I realize you guys have philosophical work arounds about God ordaining the means of how He does it and all that, but in practice, this makes language completely meaningless and makes God a cruel ant-torturer. He commands people to repent, He is saying that He keeps stretching His hands towards a rebellious people, and He is angry with Israel, and the reason for it? Because He hasnt given them the gift of repentance and faith, its God's fault they arent turning.
God is angry at His own decree.

This is so dumb, its sad to see many highly intelligent witty people like James White, R.C. Sproul, John MacArthur, Voddie Bauchman fall for this. I guess they were just educated out of their common sense.

It seems that they illustrate how it is easier for hateful humans to believe God also hates some part of humanity than to believe that
God would love and want to save every sinner, IF they would merely cooperate by satisfying the non-meritorious condition of faith/will to believe Him/accepting His grace instead of emulating A&E by believing the lie of Satan.
 
Wanna rethink that? If God 'does it all' then

1. Everyone would be saved because its God's will everyone is saved [1 Timothy 2:4]
2. God is doing a terrible job at sanctifying people. Why does it take so long and why is it so inefficient? You would think that an Almighty God would have better results than this. OR Could it be that you guys are just wrong, and WE are told by God to repent, God is with us throughout the process of sanctification and gives us the grace to continue on. THAT is the real reason why the sanctification is so slow, because WE are at fault, not God.
3. There would be no need for commands to believe and repent. I realize you guys have philosophical work arounds about God ordaining the means of how He does it and all that, but in practice, this makes language completely meaningless and makes God a cruel ant-torturer. He commands people to repent, He is saying that He keeps stretching His hands towards a rebellious people, and He is angry with Israel, and the reason for it? Because He hasnt given them the gift of repentance and faith, its God's fault they arent turning.
God is angry at His own decree.

This is so dumb, its sad to see many highly intelligent witty people like James White, R.C. Sproul, John MacArthur, Voddie Bauchman fall for this. I guess they were just educated out of their common sense.

Define who you think is "everyone" (or "all men") in 1Tim 2:4.
 
The free will crowd claims just keep getting more and more bizarre..:censored:

"Only atheists choose to sin." How do they arrive at such utter nonsense?

Yup! Studier just glibly and nonchalantly turned Jesus' statement in Jn 5:21 that emphasizes his divine prerogative by making his "prerogative" contingent upon man. But this is the inevitable outcome of his "theology" of Humanism.