so your saying the elect (I prefer the term adopted sons and daughters of God) can perish still? inspite of Gods promise they will never perish, but have eternal life?
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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Generated by the thoughts picked up from where I left off...Paul said, "Save me from this body of death..." The ground was cursed to an eternal death, and we are formed from the ground and that is our comfort (Noah). How is that comfort? Because there's no resurrection so as long as we're toting these mudflaps behind us it's no wonder our view is so dim, and we can only walk by faith. I think we all start out as half-wits, and each half-wit is offered the opportunity to gain wisdom or become a complete idiot. And perhaps why we're instructed not to call anyone an idiot if my hunch that complete idiot is equivalent to complete rejection of the wisdom of God. These relying on their own genius which might gain them the world but profits nothing for their soul. Considering themselves too wise to fall for 'fairytales,' they become fools. We're surround by fools who don't know they're grass from a hole in the ground and in need of Jesus' spit in their eyes.
I feel like I'm ranting a bit, but I just can't help but notice the amount of people that choose to, not just remain a half-wit but endeavor to become complete idiots.
I feel like I'm ranting a bit, but I just can't help but notice the amount of people that choose to, not just remain a half-wit but endeavor to become complete idiots.
The Lord Jesus Christ is the focal point of all of Scripture. When we search for Him in Scripture and find Him written in the pages from Genesis to Revelation, all we can do is stand in awe ...
2 Corinthians 3:12-16 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
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Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
From "The Fainting Warrior" – Charles Spurgeon
“It was the custom of ancient tyrants, when they wished to put men to the most fearful punishments, to tie a dead body to them, placing the two back to back; and there was the living man, with a dead body closely strapped to him, rotting, putrid, corrupting, and this he must drag with him wherever he went. Now, this is just what the Christian has to do. He has within him the new life; he has a living and undying principle, which the Holy Spirit has put within him, but he feels that everyday he has to drag about with him this dead body, this body of death, a thing as loathsome, as hideous, as abominable to his new life, as a dead stinking carcass would be to a living man.”
and, of course, the answer to "who shall deliver" is found in the next verse:
Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord ...
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Yeah of course saved Christians can become apostate.
I assume you are referring to John 10:27-28? That is a conditional promise.
It applies to Christians (sheep) who know Him and follow Him. If you don't follow Jesus you have no eternal life.
Eternal life isn't a box of goods, it is a person, Jesus Christ, there is eternal life in Him, and if you are in Him and abide in Him, you have eternal life, because you are in Him. If you are no longer in Christ, you no longer have access to that eternal life, instead you are a branch that will be cut off and Jesus will vomit you out of His mouth.
All the promises are to the BELIEVER, not to the unbeliever apostate.
The house of Eli was given a promise:
1 Sam 2:30
Therefore the LORD, the God of Israel, declares: ‘I promised that your house and the house of your father should go in and out before me forever,’ but now the LORD declares: ‘Far be it from me, for those who honor me I will honor, and those who despise me shall be lightly esteemed.
The people in biblical times were smart enough to know, just because the conditions aren't stated in every breath does not mean they don't exist. That promise had no conditions yet because they misbehaved and sinned against the Lord He said "Far be it from me".
Ninenev is another example, Jonah declares absolute destruction no conditions or cry for repentance. But the people of Nineveh were smart enough to know how God works and repented and God relented of His judgment.
That is how this works.
This obviously does not mean God is surprised or doesn't know the future, He just acts in time
canon of dort? i should read that.Seems that you are in agreement with the Canons, which I continually read in my studies. So many scripture references!
if i had to pick a confession that lays out what i believe it would be the
The Baptist Confession of Faith (1689)
From what I have seen in your posts, I would certainly recommend it. You will find many copies online in PDF format. If it is of no use, it is easy to delete and at no cost to you. Happy reading!
Also, I do not consider it to be a confession as much as an answer to false teaching at the time it was written.
I was reading a couple of Creeds the other day and I was comparing them to the Epistles by the Apostles and Paul plus the general knowledge we understand from Genesis to Malachi - Matthew to Revelation. I noticed many things [(man's definition)] {from the 3rd Century} that are not actually mentioned within the Holy Bible Itself.From what I have seen in your posts, I would certainly recommend it. You will find many copies online in PDF format. If it is of no use, it is easy to delete and at no cost to you. Happy reading!
Also, I do not consider it to be a confession as much as an answer to false teaching at the time it was written.
So that led me to wonder if some of the Creeds beliefs were not more aligned with [personal interpretation] rather than what the Bible really stated.
And if so, maybe following such Creeds aren't as {[(GODLY)]} as we have esteemed them to be?
I am in no way attempting to replace scripture. But, it never hurts to read and consider the thoughts of others, especially the saints of long ago....
I wonder if we have more information now than they did so we are able to see things clearer. Plus the Creeds were written many times by the Council Members who were RCC and it's possible they were aligned to those beliefs.
Scripture has always been scripture. And, most confessions and creeds were written at the time of separation from the RCC, and by men who spent a lot more time studying than we do today. They may not be perfect, but they are very great works by very great men.
ouch I was afraid you would say this
Actrually I am refering to much scripture
John 1, John 3, John 4, John 5 and john 6 would be a good place to start.
as for john 10. It is conditional on calling out. like the tax collector. or being saved by grace through faith..
But the promise remains. we (who did this) will never perish
what does this consist of. what does it mean to follow Jesus?
The problem is people like to make it a Christian word and give it some religious meaning
it means what it says, the person who has it will live forever.
if we have it. Jesus also said we will never die (multiple places in scripture)
if it can be lost. it would be called conditional life. not eternal life..
and yes, it is in jesus. You can not keep yourself in Jesus. you do not have that power. Only Jesus can keep you in him, and he promised he would never leave, forsake or let you go
According to jesus an unbeliever is already condemned, they never changed to a non condemned state (john 3: 18)
according to john they were never of us, for if they were, they never would have left (1 John 2: 18-22)
the mosaic covenant was conditional.
The abrahamic covenant (by which we are saved) was not
yes. they had to repent and believe, like abraham did in Gen 15.
They did not repent to get resaved, the repented to get initial salvation
I realize that you probably have never read anything outside the Bible. However, most normal people do read the work of others who have gone before them. So, NO it is not a bad thing to do that. I'm sorry if you believe otherwise...
My job is Preaching so I am studying the Bible, Church Father's interpretation, and a myriad of others viewpoints including those on this and other forums.
But what you say is intriguing because then I can see some Creeds align to personal beliefs just like we're reading in this thread.
Reading the work of others is never a bad thing. You may disagree and that is OK. But, it can also lead to a more complete understanding.
I suppose that most people don't like to even think of themselves dead and, since no one can see themselves dead until after they're dead, most not only don't want to think of themselves dead they, literally, cannot look at themselves as dead. But the law is a mirror that reveals the level of one's deadness, and it can't make anyone perfect in the sense where one holds up a mirror to touch up her makeup. The mirror provides no foundation; it just illuminates all the blemishes that need attended to. So, when I read of Paul saying this, it brings a picture of one seeing a grotesque corpse looking back at him, and realizing that, indeed, that is the 'perfect' image of him, and he say, "Ugh...," but then he thinks of the Lord.
Actually I have read many books, many creeds and many things.
but when I discuss the word. I use the bible. not these words of men.
I did not say it was bad. I just said stick to the word when making arguments or discussing the word.. Not creeds.. I can quote someone as a resource. But we have to stick to the word. what they person said is not scripture
or lead to us following men, because we chose to pick people who agree with us?Reading the work of others is never a bad thing. You may disagree and that is OK. But, it can also lead to a more complete understanding.
I see this far to often
It definitely will cause me to research just in case I am wrong. And over the years I have even changed my mind and views because of reading others and researching.Reading the work of others is never a bad thing. You may disagree and that is OK. But, it can also lead to a more complete understanding.