Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Slimsumo]

7. Romans 2:11 teaches that “God does not show favoritism” (cf. Eph. 6:9, Col. 3:25, 1Pet. 1:17), which is how God judges people justly,
so the fact that some sinners ignore God’s Gospel indicates that His will or leading is resistible because of MFW.

May I ask you, what is MFW?

 

[studier]

7. Romans 2:11 teaches that “God does not show favoritism” (cf. Eph. 6:9, Col. 3:25, 1Pet. 1:17), which is how God judges people justly,
so the fact that some sinners ignore God’s Gospel indicates that His will or leading is resistible because of MFW.

He's also established and defined the standards of what is fair and unfair.

 

[studier]

May I ask you, what is MFW?

Moral Free Will

See here.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

They have zero hope. And there's no hope expressed in this text:

Matt 8:29
When He had come to the other side, to the country of the Gergesenes, there met Him two demon-possessed men, coming out of the tombs, exceedingly fierce, so that no one could pass that way. 29 And suddenly they cried out, saying, "What have we to do with You, Jesus, You Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?"
NKJV

It sounds like the demons also knew they had NOTHING in God, just like the devil himself has nothing in Christ! And they certainly understood what their end would be!

Did you know that Adam also had empirical evidence for God?

Adam is human..

do you realise a human much different than a demon who has seen God face to face. and known him for as long as they have been alive?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Right. So, this means man's will must be the efficacious cause behind God's salvation opportunity. And this makes God weak and impotent, which is rather odd since no one can thwart God's will -- except of course, the folks in Jerusalem -- and all FWers.

And Jesus never said it was his will or his Father's that everyone in Jerusalem believe in Him.

No

it means God does not force people to take his gift of salvation.

Because God is a God of love

he is not a dictator..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

But this doesn't change the fact that victim of sin was in a helpless state. YOU, on the other hand, think you're as strong and healthy and robust as a bull. To deny this fact is to deny that you're a sinner!

lol

false accusation to the T

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Until you are saved you are not free except to sin. This is what Romans 7 is all about. You can see what is right, because the grace of God ensures you see it, but try as you might, you cannot not sin. Eventually you will succumb to the desires of your flesh.

actually romans 7 is pauls current struggle between the two spirits inside him

Salvation is not about stopping sin, Its about crying out to God to free us from the penalty of sin

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

To God, you have always been known. Your repentance and belief did not take the Lord by surprise.

No-one is predestined for salvation, we are predestined because we are saved, a salvation known to God before time. The doctrine of predestination is based on God's foreknowledge meaning He knew something before He decided to elect you for something.

I think the question begs asking. What did He know?

Also, the fact is, we are a member of the predestined elect, that cannot be denied. It's what that means where I and others disagree with the Tulip/Calvies/Reformed mob (or whatever term that is used).

or we are predestined because God determined in eternity past that all who see and receive his gift of life will be conformed to his image

 

[GWH]

May I ask you, what is MFW?

The viewpoint opposed to TULIP may be termed Moral Free Will (MFW) and described as follows:

M – God’s requirement for salvation (GRFS) is a Moral condition called faith, which is manifested as seeking God’s righteousness or salvation, which in turn presumes sufficient human volition even for sinners to make them morally accountable.

F – God enables all morally accountable souls sufficient Freedom to satisfy GRFS—or not, because His grace is not irresistible, which means sinners are accountable and justly condemned when they do not repent and accept Christ’s atonement for their sins

W – Faith is almost synonymous with Will, but volition focuses on faith as cooperation with God (or not), and cooperating with God by accepting His grace is NOT meritorious or working to earn heaven or salvation by obeying moral laws.

More info re election is shared in Lesson 11 on our website <truthseekersfellowship.com>.

 

[GWH]

Moral Free Will

See here.

Thanks, Studier!

 

[BillyBob]

everything that can be known. God did not choose us based on foreseen faith. that is not true. that would mean we elect ourselves and then God chooses those who choose Him.

Seems that you are in agreement with the Canons, which I continually read in my studies. So many scripture references!

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Seems that you are in agreement with the Canons, which I continually read in my studies. So many scripture references!

yet it is wrong

God chose based on his will

what is his will

whoever sees and believes.

now there are two way to look at it

1. God knew in eternity past everyone who would beliefe

God predestined that those in the future who will believe are predestined.

but the predestination still happened before time Began.

And God did not randomly chose some and not others.

now that is not found in scripture

 

[studier]

sufficient Freedom

Good adjective qualifying freedom. Reasonable arguments against free will should take into account this limiting word.

 

[Slimsumo]

The viewpoint opposed to TULIP may be termed Moral Free Will (MFW) and described as follows:

M – God’s requirement for salvation (GRFS) is a Moral condition called faith, which is manifested as seeking God’s righteousness or salvation, which in turn presumes sufficient human volition even for sinners to make them morally accountable.

F – God enables all morally accountable souls sufficient Freedom to satisfy GRFS—or not, because His grace is not irresistible, which means sinners are accountable and justly condemned when they do not repent and accept Christ’s atonement for their sins

W – Faith is almost synonymous with Will, but volition focuses on faith as cooperation with God (or not), and cooperating with God by accepting His grace is NOT meritorious or working to earn heaven or salvation by obeying moral laws.

More info re election is shared in Lesson 11 on our website <truthseekersfellowship.com>.

Sounds like something I would believe.

The sufficient freedom you talked about I believe comes from Titus 2:11-12 which reads:


For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,
It instructs us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live sensible, upright, and godly lives in the present age

 

[BillyBob]

And God did not randomly chose some and not others.

now that is not found in scripture

Matt 13:11 Jesus answered them His disciples, “To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted"
Seems like He does chose some and not others!

 

[Rufus]

Yes but the middle two did rejoice in the word and even grew in the word. For a time. Whether that represents 5 minutes or 5 years How is that even possible if they were never of the elect? If it is not even possible for the elect to even rejoice or grow in it? For it is all confusion. Plus any growth at all must come from God correct?

First of all, there is only one GOOD soil that produced fruit of the gospel of the kingdom. None of the other soils produced any good fruit.

Secondly, the "middle two" did not rejoice in the Word. Only the seed that fell on "rocky places" was joyful for a season. The text does not say that the seed that fell among "thorns" expressed any joy.

The fact that the "middle two" were unable to persevere in the faith should tell you that their faith was entirely spurious and their faith was not the result of God's grace. Also, read John 6. Jesus had plenty of "disciples" who followed him to the other side other the lake after he fed the 5,000. But they followed ("believed" in Him) with wrong motives. Eventually, they left Him.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Matt 13:11 Jesus answered them His disciples, “To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted"
Seems like He does chose some and not others!

this does not say that they are not granted knowledge of the gospel. on how to be saved.

it says they are not granted to know the mysteries..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

First of all, there is only one GOOD soil that produced fruit of the gospel of the kingdom. None of the other soils produced any good fruit.

Secondly, the "middle two" did not rejoice in the Word. Only the seed that fell on "rocky places" was joyful for a season. The text does not say that the seed that fell among "thorns" expressed any joy.

The fact that the "middle two" were unable to persevere in the faith should tell you that their faith was entirely spurious and their faith was not the result of God's grace. Also, read John 6. Jesus had plenty of "disciples" who followed him to the other side other the lake after he fed the 5,000. But they followed ("believed" in Him) with wrong motives. Eventually, they left Him.

so we must persevere. and in the end save ourselves?

God it

 

[Rufus]

I really don't get into that game. Waste of time IMO

Of course, you don't. You're above the fray of interpreting scripture with scripture, which is referred to in the Reformed Tradition as the Analogy of Faith. (Besides, it takes work to do that and very good knowledge of the whole counsel of God.) Instead, you apparently prefer using unbiblical criteria to interpret scripture.

 

[Rufus]

To God, you have always been known. Your repentance and belief did not take the Lord by surprise.

No-one is predestined for salvation, we are predestined because we are saved, a salvation known to God before time. The doctrine of predestination is based on God's foreknowledge meaning He knew something before He decided to elect you for something.

I think the question begs asking. What did He know?

Also, the fact is, we are a member of the predestined elect, that cannot be denied. It's what that means where I and others disagree with the Tulip/Calvies/Reformed mob (or whatever term that is used).

So all mankind w/o exception is known by God?