The problem of the statement of “never saved to begin with”

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Psalm1

Active member
Aug 22, 2024
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Chapter and verse?
I just thought of another verse. In the Bible in Romans, chapter eleven, where it says the God cut his Jewish covanant people off and that we, the gentiles, the Gentile covenant church, was grafted in. God goes on to say if I cut them off. How much more could I also cut you off?
I can look that one up also if you're not familiar with it.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Also in the produgal pairable, the father never went after the son that departed from his father's family and from his father himself
It was only the effort of the produgal that he would save and restored back to the Father.
Saved ( belonged to the father...then departed into sin)
vivid depiction of departing the faith, and it would be ridiculous to try and say "he never was family" (saved)

that parable alone prohibits a "he never was saved" theory.

I can look that one up also, if people are not familiar with it
Thanks for the examples. This one seems to contradict the earlier Hebrews one you gave in post number 2018.
 

Psalm1

Active member
Aug 22, 2024
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Thanks for the examples. This one seems to contradict the earlier Hebrews one you gave in post number 2018.
The produgal repented and returned unassisted.

I understand 100% osas as a "fact"

It is a fact in that the covenant we have with God is unbreakable.
Unbreakable by God.
I also understand that carnal rebellious believers are most likely saved in spite of their behavior...because.... Paul said in 1 Corinthians " Some are saved as through fire, they are saved, but they're works are burned up because they're works are would hey and stubble..
Our covenant is powerful.

My thoughts are that some do in fact walk away and hate God.
Were they ever saved?
I think some were and some were not.

I have my own osas slogan.
"All those people that we see in heaven, and all the people that we will see in heaven, were once saved and always saved."

Most of these doctrinal debates are a ball batted back and forth.
It is fun debating those concepts.

I like most of your thoughts and posts.
I can tell you love Jesus.
 
M

Mariae

Guest
It blows my mind how many people on various Christian forum sites teach salvation by works at the front door and/or back door and also suffer from a severe case of anti-OSAS derangement syndrome. :(

Brings back painful memories for me growing up in the Roman Catholic church. SELF promotion, SELF righteousness, SELF preservation, along with fear and bondage to insecurity makes me sick! :sick:
"Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." - St. Ignatius of Antioch
 
Sep 17, 2018
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"Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." - St. Ignatius of Antioch
It may benefit you to know this is a Protestant site and the majority of users do not accept Catholicism. The same is true of the sites (as in owners) official stance.
Pushing Catholicism and its teachings puts you at risk of being banned.
I've seen countless Catholics join and be upset by this and try to debate other users. It does not ever work. No one's mind is ever changed and, as stated previously, get banned.
I'm just supplying the info for you. Whether or not you choose to heed it is up to you. But now you know.
 
M
It may benefit you to know this is a Protestant site and the majority of users do not accept Catholicism. The same is true of the sites (as in owners) official stance.
Pushing Catholicism and its teachings puts you at risk of being banned.
I've seen countless Catholics join and be upset by this and try to debate other users. It does not ever work. No one's mind is ever changed and, as stated previously, get banned.
I'm just supplying the info for you. Whether or not you choose to heed it is up to you. But now you know.
Thank you for your warning.
Romans 1:16"For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes."
 
Apr 7, 2014
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Thank you for your warning.
Romans 1:16"For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes."
What do you believe the gospel IS and also what do you believe it means to BELIEVE the gospel?
 
M
"Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." - St. Ignatius of Antioch
I never tried to start a debate. I respectfully posted a quote from a holy person I look up to, and that shouldnt be a problem, if it is, I apologize for the inconvenience.
 
M
What do you believe the gospel IS and also what do you believe it means to BELIEVE the gospel?
No need for debate. Just respect. To me, the gospel is the good news that Jesus Christ came to save us through His death and resurrection. Believing the gospel means putting your trust in Him, turning from sin, and following Him in faith every day. I may be Catholic, which i know most if not all of you dislike, but my love for Jesus is something we all share. Like Galatians 6:14 says, I boast only in the cross—and I’m not ashamed of the gospel, just like Romans 1:16 says. Can we focus on our Christianity likeness and not our denominational differences? We all love the Good Lord, let's respect one another with love unceasing. Amen. 💞💞💞
“I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought.” > — 1 Corinthians 1:10
 
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Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

If they had no chance of losing their salvation why would they have to told to continue in the faith as if they could turn from the faith.

2Ti 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

These people's faith was overthrown.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.

These people departed from the faith giving heed to a different interpretation of the Bible the new age christianity which Jesus is not Lord and Savior but an ascended master among others.

This is happening now which the United Nations supports new age organizations.

Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister.

A warning to continue in the faith, and be not moved away from the hope of the Gospel.

1Co 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

adokimos
ad-ok'-ee-mos
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1384; unapproved, that is, rejected; by implication worthless (literally or morally): - castaway, rejected, reprobate.

Paul said that he could fall away if he did not live right.

People that believe OSAS how do they know they will always believe.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

These people were saved for they escaped the world through the knowledge of Jesus and have known righteousness but went back to the ways of the world.

But this has a reversal for they can repent but there is a warning so it is possible they might not repent.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

These people were saved and departed from the truth to believe an alternate reality so they cannot be saved again.

This does not have a reversal.

The people who departed from the faith and embraced the new age christianity fall under this category.

It is possible for someone to be saved and leave the truth.

1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

This is what the OSAS people fail at actually being saved because they are hypocritical, worldly, and love money, which their lifestyle is not love.

Charity, love in action, is greater than faith, and faith works by love.

Their faith means nothing if they do not have love.

But they want to believe all they need is faith to be saved and ignore love by enjoying sin, and worldliness, believing they cannot fall.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

They remind me of these people that would not allow the Spirit to lead them enjoying sins believing they are saved and never come to the knowledge of the truth.