Understanding God’s election

[Magenta]

I don't keep up with what Calvinists do, but I do know that to be saved one must be
born from above. So until God spiritually births a person they won't know Him.

They equate seeing a tree grow or marveling about the universe and reading about God in a book with
knowing Him personally... and as we well know, some even claim supernatural intervention is simply not
necessary and actually makes God unfair even though we know it as Him manifesting His love toward us
and keeping the promises He made, which anyone can read in the Bible should they care to.

Matthew 16 verses 15-17 ~ What about you?” Jesus asked. “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven.

 

[Cameron143]

“And he ( Jesus ) said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-

He suffered and died for our sins and then sent out witnesses to everyone that’s how he draws all men to himself
By the truth of the gospel

“And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:32-33‬ ‭

Sure, if someone believes they are saved. But no one believes apart from the Spirit of God employing the word of God to birth faith in an individual.

 

[Rufus]

You are conflating the evidence from nature as to the existence of God, and the necessary intimate interaction with God necessary for the salvation of one's soul. There is a great difference in knowing that God exists and knowing Him personally.

C'mon, Cameron143. Don't you know the gospel is written in the stars by the finger of God? Of course, city folks might have a pretty difficult time reading those stars but that's not a problem for country bumpkins who live in flyover country.

 

[Rufus]

They equate seeing a tree grow or marveling about the universe and reading about God in a book with
knowing Him personally... and as we well know, some even claim supernatural intervention is simply not
necessary and actually makes God unfair even though we know it as Him manifesting His love toward us
and keeping the promises He made, which anyone can read in the Bible should they care to.

Matthew 16 verses 15-17 ~ What about you?” Jesus asked. “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven.

Well, there you have it! The text is as clear as day. Since the Father revealed his Son to St. Pete, then obviously Jesus was saying that Peter read the stars one night that God put in the heavens.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Sure, if someone believes they are saved. But no one believes apart from the Spirit of God employing the word of God to birth faith in an individual.

Sure, if someone believes they are saved. But no one believes apart from the Spirit of God employing the word of God to birth faith in an individual “


Yeah he did that by his spirit

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.

….And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16, 20‬ ‭

“But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s what Paul’s talking about it’s how people come to believe he sent out apostles to witness the gospel we still hear it today in the Bible

“For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

But How, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard?

And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can anyone preach unless they are sent?

As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:12-15, 17‬ ‭NIV‬‬

There’s no magical selection of one man and not the other the gospel was sent to everyone.

 

[Magenta]

C'mon, Cameron143. Don't you know the gospel is written in the stars by the finger of God? Of course, city folks might have
a pretty difficult time reading those stars but that's not a problem for country bumpkins who live in flyover country.

Perhaps that explains why country bumpkins have more faith than those sinful city-livin' folks .

We can blame modern technology! And reject what the Bible says on the matter like free willers love to do...

Have any of them come up with any verses on free will yet???

ah, didn't think so. there are none

 

[Rufus]

Given some of the dialogue that has has taken place today, I thought today's devotional by Spurgeon is apropos.

May 23rd AM



"The Lord will perfect that which concerneth me."
Psalm 138:8


Most manifestly the confidence which the Psalmist here expressed was a divine confidence. He did not say, "I have grace enough to perfect that which concerneth me--my faith is so steady that it will not stagger--my love is so warm that it will never grow cold--my resolution is so firm that nothing can move it; no, his dependence was on the Lord alone. If we indulge in any confidence which is not grounded on the Rock of ages, our confidence is worse than a dream, it will fall upon us, and cover us with its ruins, to our sorrow and confusion. All that Nature spins time will unravel, to the eternal confusion of all who are clothed therein. The Psalmist was wise, he rested upon nothing short of the Lord's work. It is the Lord who has begun the good work within us; it is He who has carried it on; and if he does not finish it, it never will be complete. If there be one stitch in the celestial garment of our righteousness which we are to insert ourselves, then we are lost; but this is our confidence, the Lord who began will perfect. He has done it all, must do it all, and will do it all. Our confidence must not be in what we have done, nor in what we have resolved to do, but entirely in what the Lord will do. Unbelief insinuates-- "You will never be able to stand. Look at the evil of your heart, you can never conquer sin; remember the sinful pleasures and temptations of the world that beset you, you will be certainly allured by them and led astray." Ah! yes, we should indeed perish if left to our own strength. If we had alone to navigate our frail vessels over so rough a sea, we might well give up the voyage in despair; but, thanks be to God, He will perfect that which concerneth us, and bring us to the desired haven. We can never be too confident when we confide in Him alone, and never too much concerned to have such a trust.

 

[Kroogz]

TULIP is the opposite of/antithetical to grace/love.
It is the doctrine of determinism.

I agree,

How can you see this truth and not see "NEVER PERISH?"

 

[cv5]

TULIP is the opposite of/antithetical to grace/love.
It is the doctrine of determinism.

Super-deterministic fatalistic nihilism.

Brutal. About as far from the true nature of the All-Loving always Good Almighty God as is possible.

But......they like it that way and would not choose any other.

 

[lrs68]

I can see how you connect the dots but what you do not see and fail to connect is that the natural man
listening to the gospel hears foolishness. That is a Bible truth and yet you wish to ignore it. Why?

I'm saying if natural man is trying to find God AFTER God has first manifested Himself so that natural man goes to church and then hears the Gospel happens all the time.

Just listen to testimonies.

 

[Magenta]

I'm saying if natural man is trying to find God AFTER God has first manifested Himself
so that natural man goes to church and then hears the Gospel happens all the time.

Just listen to testimonies.

I have listened to testimonies, but hearing what others have said does not explain your position. You seem to be saying that hearing the gospel results in faith, but if hearing somebody speak the words results in faith then everyone who ever heard the words spoken would believe, and that is a far cry from the truth also, so hearing must encompass understanding, which the natural man simply does not have, not to mention the very salient fact that Jesus said, yes, Jesus Christ Himself said, that some do not hear, and He told us why. But these truths and many others are routinely swept aside, ignored, contradicted, and outright denied on a regular basis by the free willers here. Free willers love the lie that everybody hears.

John 8 verses 43, 47, Acts 13 verse 48, Romans 8 verse 8, John 8 verse 43 “Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you are unable to accept My message.” “Whoever belongs to God hears the words of God. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.” When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord, and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God.

 

[Cameron143]

Sure, if someone believes they are saved. But no one believes apart from the Spirit of God employing the word of God to birth faith in an individual “


Yeah he did that by his spirit

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.

….And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16, 20‬ ‭

“But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s what Paul’s talking about it’s how people come to believe he sent out apostles to witness the gospel we still hear it today in the Bible

“For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

But How, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard?

And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can anyone preach unless they are sent?

As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:12-15, 17‬ ‭NIV‬‬

There’s no magical selection of one man and not the other the gospel was sent to everyone.

Faith comes by hearing...not by reasoning through what has been heard. God is active in an individual coming to understand the gospel. There is a supernatural intervention by God that births faith in an individual. The source of saving faith is God.

 

[lrs68]

I have listened to testimonies, but hearing what others have said does not explain your position. You seem to be saying that hearing the gospel results in faith, but if hearing somebody speak the words results in faith then everyone who ever heard the words spoken would believe, and that is a far cry from the truth also, so hearing must encompass understanding, which the natural man simply does not have, not to mention the very salient fact that Jesus said, yes, Jesus Christ Himself said, that some do not hear, and He told us why. But these truths and many others are routinely swept aside, ignored, contradicted, and outright denied on a regular basis by the free willers here. Free willers love the lie that everybody hears.

John 8 verses 43, 47, Acts 13 verse 48, Romans 8 verse 8, John 8 verse 43 “Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you are unable to accept My message.” “Whoever belongs to God hears the words of God. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.” When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord, and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God.

God speaks to people through people that are anointed by God.

And everything you posted has no connection to anything I have posted. You are either reading into my words or assuming.

 

[Magenta]

Faith comes by hearing...not by reasoning through what has been heard. God is active in an individual coming to understand
the gospel. There is a supernatural intervention by God that births faith in an individual. The source of saving faith is God.

And then we get those who routinely leave off that the gospel is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes because they want to deceive people into thinking Scripture says it is the power of God unto salvation for those who do not believe. Their omission has been pointed out to them many times, but they persist, which leads me to believe they do it deliberately, because like many others they wish to take credit for making the "moral decision" that led to their salvation instead of giving God the glory.

 

[Rufus]

I agree,

How can you see this truth and not see "NEVER PERISH?"

I'm exceedingly jo

Super-deterministic fatalistic nihilism.

Brutal. About as far from the true nature of the All-Loving always Good Almighty God as is possible.

But......they like it that way and would not choose any other.

Ahh...you poor FW crybabies. Wah, wah, wah. Yes, I'm exceeding joyful and thankful to God that he determined to enter into a covenant with me in eternity, 'cause I know I would never have determined to seek God.

And there's nothing "fatalistic" or "nihilistic" about Predestination. How many times have I showed you guys from scripture that man's will is always in alignment with God's!? Always compatible! All who comprise the lump of clay that God determined to serve common purposes are happily and merrily reaping what THEY have so freely sown. Everyone in this life plays his/her role willingly! There's no text in scripture that says that God locks anyone out of heaven who truly desired to be there.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Faith comes by hearing...not by reasoning through what has been heard. God is active in an individual coming to understand the gospel. There is a supernatural intervention by God that births faith in an individual. The source of saving faith is God.

“Faith comes by hearing”

Hearing the gospel yes. There’s no reasoning involved in this brother

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s about hearing the gospel and believing it and being saved…..

the reasoning is all the things that aren’t there that we insist changes what is there.

It’s about hearing the gospel he sent forth into the world to all people offering salvation.

“There is a supernatural intervention by God that births faith in an individual. The source of saving faith is God.”

Lol….right Cameron ! and this is what he’s given all mankind to save people who will believe …..

“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God is the source of that ….the source of this where faith is offered to us

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God is the source of the gospel and all he said and did and promised believers in the gospel and then said Go preach this to everyone and whoever believes and is baptized shall be saved .

Whoever doesn’t believe will be damned “

Thats not reasoning its just acknowledging what’s there

He sent the gospel to all people your argument that gods the source of saving faith doesn’t even make sense because gods the source of the gospel and all Christ said about salvation and then said “ Go preach this to everyone in the world all creation and whoever believes shall be saved “

your right we need to hear the word of God the gospel or we can’t ever believe it and be saved …..we couldn’t ever receive the holy spirit unless we heard the gospel that promises the Holy Spirit . There’s a reason Jesus and his apostles said the gospel had to be witnessed to everyone even to the dead …..

thats where life is found in hearing and believing Gods word that offers life….

 

[kqr_anointed]

“Faith comes by hearing”

Hearing the gospel yes. There’s no reasoning involved in this brother

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s about hearing the gospel and believing it and being saved…..

the reasoning is all the things that aren’t there that we insist changes what is there.

It’s about hearing the gospel he sent forth into the world to all people offering salvation.

“There is a supernatural intervention by God that births faith in an individual. The source of saving faith is God.”

Lol….right Cameron ! and this is what he’s given all mankind to save people who will believe …..

“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God is the source of that ….the source of this where faith is offered to us

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God is the source of the gospel and all he said and did and promised believers in the gospel and then said Go preach this to everyone and whoever believes and is baptized shall be saved .

Whoever doesn’t believe will be damned “

Thats not reasoning its just acknowledging what’s there

He sent the gospel to all people your argument that gods the source of saving faith doesn’t even make sense because gods the source of the gospel and all Christ said about salvation and then said “ Go preach this to everyone in the world all creation and whoever believes shall be saved “

your right we need to hear the word of God the gospel or we can’t ever believe it and be saved …..we couldn’t ever receive the holy spirit unless we heard the gospel that promises the Holy Spirit . There’s a reason Jesus and his apostles said the gospel had to be witnessed to everyone even to the dead …..

thats where life is found in hearing and believing Gods word that offers life….

That's a good point

 

[BillyBob]

In fact Christ Jesus in in the midst of everything, all of the (cough cough) "time", and is the ultimate Observer.

This is true! But He does more than observe... Just like your signature line proclaims, He bestows His love, grace, blessings and saving mercy to His people.
You are actually a closet Calvinist aren't you?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

And then we get those who routinely leave off that the gospel is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes because they want to deceive people into thinking Scripture says it is the power of God unto salvation for those who do not believe. Their omission has been pointed out to them many times, but they persist, which leads me to believe they do it deliberately, because like many others they wish to take credit for making the "moral decision" that led to their salvation instead of giving God the glory.

Right

The gospel is the power of God to be saved to everyone that believes

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

exactly right Hod doesn’t have a different magical way to save us he’s accomplished the gospel and sent out his witness to all people of the gospel . Whoever believes the gospel ……will be saved

 

[Pilgrimshope]

That's a good point

Even a donkeys behind gets lucky sometimes