Prophesied by Joel...

[wolfwint]

that because you are a rebel. we are all part of the Body of Christ, and He is the head of that body. 1Corthians Paul teaches the Body and how the gifts of the Holy Spirit are needed in the church setting. And Jesus said that too in Actsa 1:8 and MARK 16 AND in Luke 24:49

Yep, in the same letter you mentioned, Paul teaches clear that not all will get the gift of speaking in tongues. 1. COR 12,30. You telling me that I ignore the scripture. What you are doing? 1. COR 12,30 fits not in your view. So you ignore this vers!

 

[wolfwint]

I have answered your posts with scripture. It is written/revealed in all detailed accounts that 100% of those who received the Holy Spirit spoke in tongues. It is your perogative whether to accept or reject what scripture reveals.

No, you did not. I asked you if believers which are not speaking in tongues then have the Holy Spirit and be saved. According your claim everybody who is not speaking in tongues has also not the Holy Spirit. And who has not the Spirit has also not the life.
Is this correct? A yes ore a no would be sufficient.

 

[Edify]

I ignore not the scripture, but false teachings.
You interprete the scripture according your view. Well you can do it. But it is no guarant for the truth.

That sounds good until people notice you're not stating any biblical facts at all.
Believe whatever you want - your choice. But remember you answer for your choices, as well as what(who) motivates you to choose them.

 

[Gideon300]

In Acts 2, those hearing people speak in languages ask what it means. Some marvel at the miracle, while others mock.
Peter gave a direct answer. This is that which was prophesied by Joel. "This" the "speaking in tongues" that you are now seeing and hearing is what Joel prophesied about. The prophecy is specific, in the last days I will pour out my Spirit. In other words, when you see someone speaking in tongues it means they have received the Holy Spirit as prophesied by Joel.

Some ask, If speaking in tongues is the evidence that accompanies receiving of the Holy Spirit, why doesn't the Bible just plainly say so? The Bible actually does say it plainly; in story form. When the question was asked, what does this speaking in tongues mean? Peter gives them a direct answer straight from Joel's prophecy. So, when you see someone speaking in tongues you know they have received the Holy Spirit.

"Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear." (Acts 2:33)

Acts 2, 10, and 19 set the pattern. Each confirms speaking in tongues is the direct evidence of the initial indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10 - they heard them speak in tongues. That experience confirmed to Peter and others that the individuals had actually received the Holy Spirit. And as seen elsewhere in scripture nothing other than tongues confirms the initial experience; not believing in Jesus, saying a sinner's prayer, or having strong feelings, etc.

Acts 11 - Peter gives an account of what occurred in Acts 10. He indicates the people spoke in tongues proving they had received the Holy Spirit and as such God intended they be water baptized in the name of Jesus as well.

Acts 19:6-7 (This is the last detailed account some 20+ years after the witness of the truth revealed at Pentecost)
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
And all the men were about twelve.


A Visible Sign of the Invisible:

Acts 8 - Confirms receiving the Holy Spirit is identifiable.
How could the people be so sure that those who believed and were water baptized had not received the Holy Spirit? And what made the people so sure that the experience had occurred a few days later? (Acts 8:14-19)

Clearly it was not just the laying on of hands that proved the experience occurred. Simon wanted to buy the ability to do what he witnessed when the apostles laid hands on the people. Think about it. There's no need to pay to have the ability to lay hands on a person. It is clear he wanted to buy the power to demonstrate the receiving of the Holy Spirit.

(There must have been a definite, supernatural
sign for Simon the Magician to be impressed enough to
desire it. Simon apparently wanted to buy and use this
miracle in his magical shows; he desired the power to lay
hands on people and have the miraculous sign manifest
itself.) New Birth-Bernard

As revealed elsewhere in scripture, speaking in tongues is the visible sign God chose to reveal when the invisible Holy Spirit initially enters one's body.

God chose the sign. And He certainly does not have to explain Himself. However, some biblical records point to the possible reason why He did it.

1. Tower of Babel = God used tongues as a means to separate people who were disobedient. A reversal of this is seen at Pentecost. God is bringing people back into one body - into unity.

2. James 3 - reveals human beings cannot tame the unruly tongue. However, God can and does when people submit to Him. Speaking in tongues is a conscious act of surrender.

3. There are many external signs when the Holy Spirit is present in an area. As to Pentecost, the wind indicated the Holy Spirit had arrived in the upper room. And flaming tongues sat atop each person revealing that what was about to happen was for all individually.

Speaking in tongues is different in that the sign comes from the inside out after God has taken up residence in one's body.

Please note that the visible tongue was "like" fire. It was not fire. This misinterpretation has led to false doctrines and deceptive signs and wonders. People who seek God's fire are ignorant of what that means. God's fire is God's judgement. He is a consuming fire. God's fire consumed those who came to arrest Elijah. When James and John asked if they should call down fire from heaven, (Luke 9:54) Jesus rebuked them.

There is an old Pentecostal hymn, "Let the Fire Fall". It was sung quite often at the church I attended 45 years ago. I could not warm (pun intended) to the song, but I did not know why. That church got what it asked for. I left beforehand, but there was such a shaking that most people left, the pastor had to find a new building and only a handful of people followed him to the new premises.

Personally, I prefer mercy and grace to God's judgement. I was not always like that. As an immature believer, I was legalistic and religious. That's no fun at all. There is no joy in legalism and no peace either.

 

[wolfwint]

That sounds good until people notice you're not stating any biblical facts at all.
Believe whatever you want - your choice. But remember you answer for your choices, as well as what(who) motivates you to choose them.

Btw I stated biblical facts! But they fit not in the believesystem of some.

 

[Wansvic]

No, you did not. I asked you if believers which are not speaking in tongues then have the Holy Spirit and be saved. According your claim everybody who is not speaking in tongues has also not the Holy Spirit. And who has not the Spirit has also not the life.
Is this correct? A yes ore a no would be sufficient.

I'll say it one last time, I believe the Word of God and it reveals 100% of those who received the Holy Ghost spoke in tongues. Have a nice day.

 

[wolfwint]

I'll say it one last time, I believe the Word of God and it reveals 100% of those who received the Holy Ghost spoke in tongues. Have a nice day.

Thank you! But then you are on the wrong way and spread false teaching. If you read 1. Cor 12, 29- 30 how can you say the word reveals 100% of those who received the Holy Ghost spoke in tongues?
✝ 1 Corinthians 12:29
"Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?"
✝ 1 Corinthians 12:30
"Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?"
the answer is NO!
If you still claim your view you ignore the scripture and spread a false teaching!

 

[Wansvic]

Please note that the visible tongue was "like" fire. It was not fire. This misinterpretation has led to false doctrines and deceptive signs and wonders. People who seek God's fire are ignorant of what that means. God's fire is God's judgement. He is a consuming fire. God's fire consumed those who came to arrest Elijah. When James and John asked if they should call down fire from heaven, (Luke 9:54) Jesus rebuked them.

There is an old Pentecostal hymn, "Let the Fire Fall". It was sung quite often at the church I attended 45 years ago. I could not warm (pun intended) to the song, but I did not know why. That church got what it asked for. I left beforehand, but there was such a shaking that most people left, the pastor had to find a new building and only a handful of people followed him to the new premises.

Personally, I prefer mercy and grace to God's judgement. I was not always like that. As an immature believer, I was legalistic and religious. That's no fun at all. There is no joy in legalism and no peace either.

The post has nothing to do with seeking God's fire. God caused the miraculous appearance of cloven tongues like fire to sit upon each person. The account confirms not just a select few but rather 100% spoke in tongues when they were filled with the Holy Ghost.

"And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." Acts 2:1-4

 

[Gideon300]

The post has nothing to do with seeking God's fire. God caused the miraculous appearance of cloven tongues like fire to sit upon each person. The account confirms not just a select few but rather 100% spoke in tongues when they were filled with the Holy Ghost.

"And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." Acts 2:1-4

I was pointing to an inaccuracy in the post which stated "tongues of fire". That inaccuracy has led countless to have a false concept of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Wansvic]

Thank you! But then you are on the wrong way and spread false teaching. If you read 1. Cor 12, 29- 30 how can you say the word reveals 100% of those who received the Holy Ghost spoke in tongues?
✝ 1 Corinthians 12:29
"Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?"
✝ 1 Corinthians 12:30
"Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?"
the answer is NO!
If you still claim your view you ignore the scripture and spread a false teaching!

Rightly dividing the word reveals there are 2 distinct purposes for the manifestation of tongues:
1. Upon being indwelt by the Holy Spirit individuals speak in tongues as initially revealed in Acts 2:4, 33. And further confirmed in scripture. (10:43-48, 19:1-7)

2. The Spiritual gift of tongues is for edification of the church body. The message given by God is spoken in an unknown tongue. The message is then spoken by a person used in the gift of interpretation. Both speaking in tongues and the interpretation are miraculous manifestations of the Spirit. (1 Cor. 12)
NOTE: No one operated in the gift of interpretation when the people spoke in tongues in the detailed conversion accounts. (Acts 2, 10, 19)

3. Those indwelt by the Spirit pray in unknown tongues. Paul referenced this in 1 Cor. 14:2, 4, 14-15, and said do not stop people from speaking in tongues. (verse 39)

Peter's statement in Acts 2:33 confirms receiving the Holy Ghost is accompanied by speaking in tongues. Consider the following:

Of the 120 in the upper room every single person spoke in tongues. No one was excluded. (Acts 2)

Cornelius and his entire group spoke in tongues. No one was excluded. (Acts 10)

The twelve Ephesus disciples spoke in tongues. No one was excluded. (Acts 19)


Paul stated he spoke in tongues more than the Corinthians, but not when he was in church. Clearly his private prayer included speaking in unknown tongues.

1 Cor 14:18-19
I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

 

[wolfwint]

The post has nothing to do with seeking God's fire. God caused the miraculous appearance of cloven tongues like fire to sit upon each person. The account confirms not just a select few but rather 100% spoke in tongues when they were filled with the Holy Ghost.

"And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." Acts 2:1-4

What you QUOTE in Acts 2,1-4 was unique. This never had repeatet in the bible afterwards: I mean the cloven tongues which sat upon each of them.
If you would be right, then this particular sign belongs to the gift of speaking in tongues.

 

[Wansvic]

What you QUOTE in Acts 2,1-4 was unique. This never had repeatet in the bible afterwards: I mean the cloven tongues which sat upon each of them.
If you would be right, then this particular sign belongs to the gift of speaking in tongues.

Acts 2 revealed particulars of the NT experience. And every detailed account afterward confirmed what Acts 2 revealed; 100% of those filled with the Holy Spirit spoke in tongues.

 

[wolfwint]

Rightly dividing the word reveals there are 2 distinct purposes for the manifestation of tongues:
1. Upon being indwelt by the Holy Spirit individuals speak in tongues as initially revealed in Acts 2:4, 33. And further confirmed in scripture. (10:43-48, 19:1-7)

2. The Spiritual gift of tongues is for edification of the church body. The message given by God is spoken in an unknown tongue. The message is then spoken by a person used in the gift of interpretation. Both speaking in tongues and the interpretation are miraculous manifestations of the Spirit. (1 Cor. 12)
NOTE: No one operated in the gift of interpretation when the people spoke in tongues in the detailed conversion accounts. (Acts 2, 10, 19)

3. Those indwelt by the Spirit pray in unknown tongues. Paul referenced this in 1 Cor. 14:2, 4, 14-15, and said do not stop people from speaking in tongues. (verse 39)

Peter's statement in Acts 2:33 confirms receiving the Holy Ghost is accompanied by speaking in tongues. Consider the following:

Of the 120 in the upper room every single person spoke in tongues. No one was excluded. (Acts 2)

Cornelius and his entire group spoke in tongues. No one was excluded. (Acts 10)

The twelve Ephesus disciples spoke in tongues. No one was excluded. (Acts 19)


Paul stated he spoke in tongues more than the Corinthians, but not when he was in church. Clearly his private prayer included speaking in unknown tongues.

1 Cor 14:18-19
I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

Yes, and all the frim you mentioned passages in Acts 2 10 and 19, and I would add Acts 8 too, you can simply understand as an sign for the jews. But not as an theologie which will be an expierince for all believers in all ages till today. If this would be the case, we would not discuss about it, because this would be normal for every believer in all times, world wide. Please consider, that the Initiative in the passages you mentioned came from the Holy Spirit! No one asked for, ore longed for ore fastet for. In Acts 2 they were gathered in the upperoom right, but they dont know how the Holy Spirit would come. So they got the Extra ordinary sign with the " flame" sitting on them. In Acts 10 Peter needs an extray lesson for to understand that the Holy Spirit would also given to the gentiles. And still he and his compagnongs where surprised when they heared the gentiles speaking in tongues after the heared the gospel. ( No flame)
In Acts 8 they had to sent to the authority in Jerusalem before believing that the gospel is also for the samaritians. ( no flame) And in Acts 19 they had to convince the disciples of John the Baptist, that they speaking the truth. Which for decades only knew the baptism of John the Baptist.(no flame).
I know you and millions others interprete this different. But for me this is the biblical proof that these events were unique.
Also later in the church, the giver of the gifts was the Holy Spirit, according His will.
And Paul saw in the church better to have the gift of prophecie then the gift of speaking in tounges. By making clear that in the body of Christ no believer has all gifts. Speaking in tongues was one gift under many gifts.
And if we see in this gift the Extra ordinary gift which every believer must have, we leaving the revealed truth of the word of God.
I never heared a pentecostal ore charismatic say what Pauls said in
✝ 1 Corinthians 14:1

"Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy."

He is not saying: but rather ye may speaking in tongues.

Sorry to say, for you and others which following this doctrines speaking in tongues became such an important thing. That this became the meassure that someone has the Holy Spirit ore not ! An doctrine which is how old? 124 years! According your claim, before 1900 only some cults had the Holy Spirit. No Single Reformator, they all are humans of course, had the Holy Spirit. No Wycliff, no Calvin, Luther anyway not, non of them. No Wesley, No George Whitefield, No Dwight.L.Moody! No Menno Simons (mennonites), No Roger Williams.(baptists).

 

[Wansvic]

Yes, and all the frim you mentioned passages in Acts 2 10 and 19, and I would add Acts 8 too, you can simply understand as an sign for the jews. But not as an theologie which will be an expierince for all believers in all ages till today. If this would be the case, we would not discuss about it, because this would be normal for every believer in all times, world wide. Please consider, that the Initiative in the passages you mentioned came from the Holy Spirit! No one asked for, ore longed for ore fastet for. In Acts 2 they were gathered in the upperoom right, but they dont know how the Holy Spirit would come. So they got the Extra ordinary sign with the " flame" sitting on them. In Acts 10 Peter needs an extray lesson for to understand that the Holy Spirit would also given to the gentiles. And still he and his compagnongs where surprised when they heared the gentiles speaking in tongues after the heared the gospel. ( No flame)
In Acts 8 they had to sent to the authority in Jerusalem before believing that the gospel is also for the samaritians. ( no flame) And in Acts 19 they had to convince the disciples of John the Baptist, that they speaking the truth. Which for decades only knew the baptism of John the Baptist.(no flame).
I know you and millions others interprete this different. But for me this is the biblical proof that these events were unique.
Also later in the church, the giver of the gifts was the Holy Spirit, according His will.
And Paul saw in the church better to have the gift of prophecie then the gift of speaking in tounges. By making clear that in the body of Christ no believer has all gifts. Speaking in tongues was one gift under many gifts.
And if we see in this gift the Extra ordinary gift which every believer must have, we leaving the revealed truth of the word of God.
I never heared a pentecostal ore charismatic say what Pauls said in
✝ 1 Corinthians 14:1

"Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy."

He is not saying: but rather ye may speaking in tongues.

Sorry to say, for you and others which following this doctrines speaking in tongues became such an important thing. That this became the meassure that someone has the Holy Spirit ore not ! An doctrine which is how old? 124 years! According your claim, before 1900 only some cults had the Holy Spirit. No Single Reformator, they all are humans of course, had the Holy Spirit. No Wycliff, no Calvin, Luther anyway not, non of them. No Wesley, No George Whitefield, No Dwight.L.Moody! No Menno Simons (mennonites), No Roger Williams.(baptists).

Clearly we disagree as to what the scripture reveals. But thanks for the discussion.

 

[wolfwint]

Clearly we disagree as to what the scripture reveals. But thanks for the discussion.

Your are welcome 😀