A misconception of obedience

[Lamar]

One doesn't get themselves saved nor exercise faith apart from the work of God. Faith is birthed within an individual but from a source outside an individual.

Talk about talking out of both sides of your mouth!

Well as least you have covered all your bases.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Your post# 51 does sound like works.

In post 51 I said: We are saved by grace through faith. He determined beforehand to save everyone who trusts in Christ's sacrifice on the cross as remission for their sins.

I was just paraphrasing 1 Corinthians 1:21 which says,

For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. (1 Co 1:21)​

What part of this sounds like works?

 

[Cameron143]

Your theology is Calvinist.

You like other Calvinists have made a god of your theology. You subscribe to the notion that God has not created a image of Himself that is capable of their own faith. We are not animals, we are made in His image.

Who do you "attribute" the faith that amazed Jesus in Luke 7:9?

When Jesus heard this, he was amazed at him, and turning to the crowd following him, he said, “I tell you, I have not found such great faith even in Israel.”

You have simply put God into the box of Calvinism. A box that limits God's power to create something with the ability to freely love Him or reject Him.

God expects us to freely obey Him:

Genesis 4:6-7:
Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”

God expects us to reason with Him:

Isaiah 1:18:
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Do you want your sins to be as white as snow? Then be reasonable with the Word of God.

I find when people cannot argue from scripture the argue "ists" and "isms",and are all too ready to label others rather than discuss ideas. I daresay this does more to restrict God than anything I do.

I imagine Jesus' surprise was both related to the extent of the man's faith as well as the background of the man exercising the faith. He is a Gentile. Jesus sent to the lost sheep of Israel. So I imagine He didn't expect to find faith in Gentiles, let alone find it in the greatest amount.
The source of faith is the word of God in conjunction with the Holy Spirit. No exceptions to this.

I agree that God expects obedience and also commands it. While this establishes men's accountability before God, it does nothing to establish what obedience actually entails. Is it merely outward adherence, or does there need to be an equal inward adherence? What does that consist in? What would it actually take for someone to have their sacrifice made acceptable and for one to be truly washed white as snow?

 

[Cameron143]

Talk about talking out of both sides of your mouth!

Well as least you have covered all your bases.

And here you thought you had reasoned with God? Where does faith derive from?

 

[GWH]

I find when people cannot argue from scripture the argue "ists" and "isms",and are all too ready to label others rather than discuss ideas. I daresay this does more to restrict God than anything I do.

I imagine Jesus' surprise was both related to the extent of the man's faith as well as the background of the man exercising the faith. He is a Gentile. Jesus sent to the lost sheep of Israel. So I imagine He didn't expect to find faith in Gentiles, let alone find it in the greatest amount.
The source of faith is the word of God in conjunction with the Holy Spirit. No exceptions to this.

I agree that God expects obedience and also commands it. While this establishes men's accountability before God, it does nothing to establish what obedience actually entails. Is it merely outward adherence, or does there need to be an equal inward adherence? What does that consist in? What would it actually take for someone to have their sacrifice made acceptable and for one to be truly washed white as snow?

Faith.

 

[Believer08]

Your theology is Calvinist.

You like other Calvinists have made a god of your theology. You subscribe to the notion that God has not created a image of Himself that is capable of their own faith. We are not animals, we are made in His image.

Who do you "attribute" the faith that amazed Jesus in Luke 7:9?

When Jesus heard this, he was amazed at him, and turning to the crowd following him, he said, “I tell you, I have not found such great faith even in Israel.”

You have simply put God into the box of Calvinism. A box that limits God's power to create something with the ability to freely love Him or reject Him.

God expects us to freely obey Him:

Genesis 4:6-7:
Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”

God expects us to reason with Him:

Isaiah 1:18:
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Do you want your sins to be as white as snow? Then be reasonable with the Word of God.

Calvinism…yuck!!

 

[Believer08]

Talk about talking out of both sides of your mouth!

Well as least you have covered all your bases.

💯

 

[Cameron143]

Talk about talking out of both sides of your mouth!

Well as least you have covered all your bases.

How so?

 

[Lamar]

In post 51 I said: We are saved by grace through faith. He determined beforehand to save everyone who trusts in Christ's sacrifice on the cross as remission for their sins.

I was just paraphrasing 1 Corinthians 1:21 which says,

For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. (1 Co 1:21)​

What part of this sounds like works?

Trust is a work. It is one of the hardest things humans can do.

You are claiming that God only saves those who do the trusting.

This is works theology, what part of this do you not understand?

 

[Believer08]

Trust is a work. It is one of the hardest things humans can do.

You are claiming that God only saves those who do the trusting.

This is works theology, what part of this do you not understand?

Exactly…

Is there ever a time in the Bible where anyone was ever asked the word “do” concerning salvation? Is there ever a time in the Bible where anyone was ever told what they must “do” to be saved?

Let us go to the scriptures to find out

Mark 10:17 - "Good teacher, what shall I DO that I may inherit eternal life?"

Acts 2:37 - "what shall we DO?"

Acts 9:6 - "Lord, what do you want me to DO?"

Acts 16:30 - "Sirs, what must I DO to be saved?"

 

[Magenta]

What would it actually take for someone to have their sacrifice made acceptable and for one to be truly washed white as snow?

God desires those who worship Him in spirit and in truth and that would by necessity include acknowledging Him as sovereign... Though we have quite a few here who complain against that aspect of Who He is... Claiming he is kidnapping people against their will for Him to act unilaterally.

 

[Believer08]

Trust is a work. It is one of the hardest things humans can do.

You are claiming that God only saves those who do the trusting.

This is works theology, what part of this do you not understand?

They are in essence doing the same thing that they accuse us of…they are relying on their own ability and self…to trust and continue to trust in God…so He can save them…or else God is the one who is trusting for them!

 

[kqr_anointed]

3 whole days

 

[Cameron143]

God desires those who worship Him in spirit and in truth and that would by necessity include acknowledging Him as sovereign... Though we have quite a few here who complain against that aspect of Who He is... Claiming he is kidnapping people against their will for Him to act unilaterally.

Rut ro...tell me you did not use the S word!

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

They are in essence doing the same thing that they accuse us of…they are relying on their own ability and self…to trust and continue to trust in God…so He can save them…or else God is the one who is trusting for them!

actually no

we are trusting in the ability of God to save us, Confident in the fact that God, who began a good work in us, will complete it until he day of Christ. and Confident that when God says he will never let us go. and we will never be lost. he means it.

 

[Believer08]

Are people actually saying we must be disobedient to be saved? Because those who accuse others of believing one must obey to be saved…well…reverse that and it sounds as if they are saying you don’t have to obey

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Are people actually saying we must be disobedient to be saved?

Please show where anyone made such a statement

Because those who accuse others of believing one must obey to be saved…well…reverse that and it sounds as if they are saying since you don’t have to obey

Or maybe we just need to look at what the word says.

we are unworthy, the wage of sin is death, but the gift of God is life.

and nothing we could ever do can bring us to life. It ALL must be of Christ.

 

[Lamar]

I find when people cannot argue from scripture the argue "ists" and "isms",and are all too ready to label others rather than discuss ideas. I daresay this does more to restrict God than anything I do.

???
Is the Bible wrong to use such "ists" and "isms" to describe groups of people as:

Nicolaitans
Judaizers
Sadducees
Pharisees

Was the early church wrong to label people Gnostics?

Did this have to be explained to you?

I am more then happy to discuss ideas with you but you are in the Calvinist camp.

 

[Sipsey]

Are people actually saying we must be disobedient to be saved? Because those who accuse others of believing one must obey to be saved…well…reverse that and it sounds as if they are saying you don’t have to obey

It could possibly be that some would like you to clarify what you mean when you say obey. What does this obedience that is evidence of one’s salvation look like?

 

[Cameron143]

???
Is the Bible wrong to use such "ists" and "isms" to describe groups of people as:

Nicolaitans
Judaizers
Sadducees
Pharisees

Was the early church wrong to label people Gnostics?

Did this have to be explained to you?

I am more then happy to discuss ideas with you but you are in the Calvinist camp.

I never go camping. And while my beliefs are similar to reformed beliefs, to be an "ist" I would have to follow the name before the "ist". That would make me a Jesusist. Do you honestly believe you and your ilk are the only ones who study the Bible and form doctrine based on it?

Ideas? Where are yours? I didn't notice them in your post.