A misconception of obedience
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@Lamar I know it’s hard to believe, but there are some so-called “Christians” who do not believe that obedience is essential to salvation. Instead, they argue that salvation is “by faith alone, apart from any acts of obedience.”
I would like to know if they believe having faith in Jesus is obeying or disobeying? If they say it’s obeying, then they are saying one must obey to be saved. If they say it’s disobeying, then they are saying having faith in Jesus is disobeying.
I would like to know if they believe having faith in Jesus is obeying or disobeying? If they say it’s obeying, then they are saying one must obey to be saved. If they say it’s disobeying, then they are saying having faith in Jesus is disobeying.
“But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: ‘We ought to obey God rather than men’” (Ac.5:29).
“But to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness — indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek” (Rm.2:8-9).
“Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness” (Rm.6:16-18).
“O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified?” (Ga.3:1).
“And to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,
in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power” (2Th.1:7-9).
“Though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him” (Hb.5:8-9).
“For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?” (1Pt.4:17).
Let’s watch them explain away these passages and be dishonest with them…
“But to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness — indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek” (Rm.2:8-9).
“Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness” (Rm.6:16-18).
“O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified?” (Ga.3:1).
“And to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,
in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power” (2Th.1:7-9).
“Though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him” (Hb.5:8-9).
“For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?” (1Pt.4:17).
Let’s watch them explain away these passages and be dishonest with them…
@Lamar, I’m always amazed how people think obedience has nothing to do with salvation…do they think God saves people because they have faith in Christ? I can just as easily say they are having the idea that their faith in God to save them is because of their faith, which is in essence relying on their faith to save..which is ironically accusing me of the same thing. Paul said he kept the faith (2 Tim. 4:7). Would anyone accuse him of trusting in himself or relying on himself since he said that?
Saying obedience is good as far as it goes, but it can't take a person over the finish line is not a straw man. He said, "we are simply trusting in God to save us as we obey Him", "When we follow God's commands, He saves us", and "He has graciously given us commands which save" to name a few instances. I could be wrong, but it looks like is He saying obedience takes us over the finish line.
Maybe you didn't see the second sentence of the second paragraph of the OP where he said almost the same thing.
Like I said, I could be wrong. But if I'm wrong why in the world would there be no agreement or even acknowledgement that we are all sinners in need of the Savior even after salvation? And why would there be no repudiation of the doctrine of sinless perfection?
Maybe you didn't see the second sentence of the second paragraph of the OP where he said almost the same thing.
Like I said, I could be wrong. But if I'm wrong why in the world would there be no agreement or even acknowledgement that we are all sinners in need of the Savior even after salvation? And why would there be no repudiation of the doctrine of sinless perfection?
@Lamar, the faith alone crowd gets obedience to the authority of Christ (Acts 2:38; Heb. 5:9; Jn. 10:27) confused with works of righteousness (Titus 3:5) and works of the law (Eph. 2:9; Rom. 4:5; Gal. 2:16). They cannot distinguish between the two which is why they have such a difficult time when it comes to obedience being involved in salvation. But as you rightly said, they’d NEVER do this with any other circumstance. It is sad to say, but due to their ignorance or complete disregard, they sound like they would have more respect for obeying man rather than God, which Peter says the exact opposite (Acts 5:29).
Common sense goes out the window when a lot of people approach the scriptures.
Common sense goes out the window when a lot of people approach the scriptures.
Those who believe that I think I somehow earn salvation are sadly mistaken and simply don’t want to understand..as they have been DUPED by denominational teaching that obedience to Christ has NOTHING to do with being saved. It’s quite unfortunate that misunderstandings and bad teachings about faith and obedience leads to such false accusations, but such is the case when you decide to follow man’s opinion instead of the Bible. Nowhere did I say that obedience is the means whereby we earn salvation. To get that from the post is to COMPLETELY REFUSE to understand it!!
These same people would have accused Noah, Naaman, the blind man, Abraham, Israel, etc etc of relying on their own ability and self to save themselves, which in actuality it was the exact opposite. I guess these people on this thread who disagree believe you can be saved by a dead faith? They can try it their way, I guess!
Thankfully, these individuals who are accusing people of relying on self to save because they believe in obeying God do not know their hearts…and cannot judge their motives as the reason they are obeying….I can say until I’m blue in the face that obedience is not the means whereby one EARNS salvation….but as long as they think that about me…it will be all for nought.