Christians are grafted in to The Chosen Ones, not everyone who claims to be Christian is truly Christian.
You may be in that group from the way you post.
Slain in the spirit?
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You may be in that group from the way you post.
You want a lesson in the Greek text?
You would not be able sustain your willful desire if you were shown.
Problem is... it seems it reaches deaf ears whenever I took the time to show someone.
You know it may be one of those because they haven't seen or recieved it yet their view point may be based on that it might be that he is one of his just not baptized in the holy spirit yet. we tend to use logic more than we do via the spirit and I have seen on more than one occasion Christians not believing in dreams and visions because quite simply they never recieved them thus have a more carnal thinking in their walk.yes, many here verify, if not you, maybe you aren't His yet
Granted many like this are well versed in scripture but their understanding of it may be limited because of this.
I mainly recieve visions I don't get dreams that often but when I do they are very profound
Well sadly that is the case in most instances the falling on deaf ears, I would be willing to have a lesson if you provide it
I dont know. Its Gods prophecie to Israel. Ask him!
We are,(the church) so my understanding in this time will be with the Lord. Maby in the new Jerusalem.
The issue with that being only for israel is that many have dreams and visions even now who are not Israel so if the prophecy was only to Israel then why do so many have this exact thing happen to them?
And what makes the word of God irrelevant to one but not to another if it is the word of God then it should be treated as such meaning it should not be a one sized fit for some and not so for others otherwise we can choose what part of his word we can apply as we see fit
This is how cherry picking happens if we consider the bible the sacred word of God then we should be able to use all of it and apply all of it not some here and not some there if it was only for a specific group of people then that makes the word of God not really his word to believers and the evidence of this prophecy not being just for Israel is already here I am not from Israel but I have many visions how do you explain that?
Well, our bible school teacher taught us not to argue about the question of echatologie.
According my understanding not all the word of god is for all people. So the specific prophecies which made for the nation of Israel are not for all mankind. I know that the pentecostal and also the charismatic doctrine uses Joel for to explain their view.
I see it difficult to interprete the bible in this way that it is supporting the individual view.
It is to distinguish to whom a text is given and for what purpose.
Solong the nation of Israel has not turned to christ. Joel's prophecie will not come. But it will be at the end of the tribulation time.
About dreams and visions. You may have dream and visions. Also people in cults and pagan religions have dreams and visions.
It is the question who is the Initiator of this dreams and visions. Is it God ore is this someone else.
But lets say it is from God for instance I had a dream where I was in a pure white place and I was standing before Jesus as small as a child and he was just smiling at me not saying anything just smiling I have been asking him to see his smile just one more time a smile worth a thousand words as I put it this was an obvious answer to my prayers so while I mainly have visions when I do get a dream from him it is often times profound but if dreams and visions are for Israel and for the end times then why do I get them are we to assume it is not from God because it doesn't line up with that kind of understanding?
We can understand that what Peter referred to was for Israel simply because everyone he spoke to was Israel.
There was no understanding yet (at that moment Peter spoke) that Gentiles would be also joining them.
So? God gave Peter a message to Jews that Jews could verify from the Torah.
For that point in time? It seemed to the Jews it was business as usual...
grace and peace ........
But why include it in the word of God if it is only for Israel? Jesus was also mainly speaking to the jews but we take his word as law so the idea that parts of the bible were for the jews and not for us doesn't add up
Why? Because the first Church was Jewish!
The Church in Jerusalem!
Yet, its for all of us to learn about.
The Jews still had no idea that Gentiles were to be placed on equal footing with them for the Church age.
Remember?
Jesus was a rabbi?
Jesus always quoted the Torah?
When Satan tempted Jesus? Satan used the Torah ....
It took a while for everyone to catch on about the Gentiles.
In the beginning it was a "Jewish thing."
Now look at it.
You would never know!
,,,,,
Your dreams dont must have to do with Israel. I know from people in India and also from moslem background that they dreamed from Jesus and the turned to Christ. So I dont say that God is not speaking through dreams today to his children. Or to call people in his family. But their is lot of fake and the devil can imitate very well. Not all what looks like Gold is Gold. I know a sister in the Lord ( she is charismatic), she is following an Kim Robinson. She reports about her visiting Jesus in heaven. I do not belive such reports.
But many believers are open for dreams, visions, angels.
ok thank you for clarifying yes it is true some are indeed fake I have met to many false prophets to count and to many lying people claiming to have dreams from God mainly on youtube that place is flooded with them.
Do you know how easy it is to make a channel about that stuff and get thousands of subscribers? it is one of the best ways to make a sucessful channel and you get paid to do so so I understand where you are coming from on that point
Many are still failing to realize today, that in the past when God wanted to give revelation to men?
It was done through Israel first. So when the Church age first began? It was business as usual with
Jews first getting from God = what the rest of the world was about to learn.
I looked the following up.....
[Commentary of FIRST CORINTHIANS. Based upon the Greek New Testament.
Verse by verse Study by Ernest R. Campbell. Canyonview Press. Silverton OR.]
https://ggf-usa-archive.com/product...-corinthians-based-on-the-greek-new-testament
Excerpt ... my notes.
Adding together the signs, miracles, healings and languages (tongues), we have a total of 107 miraculous items
mentioned in the New Testament. Even though in the Synoptic Gospels a few of them may refer to the same incidents,
it is a formidable number which confronts every serious Bible student.
There is another interesting fact regarding these miraculous items; they are found in only ten of the 27 books in the
New Testament. These books refer to different periods. First, the time during which the truth regarding the Messianic
Kingdom was presented to Israel, contained in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Second, the time during which the
Messianic Kingdom was offered to Israel, contained in the first seven chapters of Acts.
Third, the time which Jesus of Nazareth was being confirmed as the Messiah to Israel, contained in chapters 8-28
of Acts, Romans,First and Second Corinthians, First Thessalonians and Hebrews (Heb. 2:3-4 refers to confirmatory
signs and miracles).
Now here's the kicker.....It's very important to observe that all ten books that contain signs and gifts were either written
directly to Israel or written during the time the Messiahship of Jesus was being confirmed and
verified to the nation of Israel. In other words, whenever God's covenant people, Israel, were
either in the foreground or background, sign gifts were either present or lurking in the shadows
( 1 Cor. 1:22).
Verse 12 confirms it. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
Sorry i found only german speaking source.
[COLOR=hsl(var(--darkAccent-hsl))]Azusa Street 1906 – Der Beginn der Pfingstbewegung[/COLOR]
Der endgültige Durchbruch dieser neuen Bewegung ist aber mit dem Wirken des Afro-Amerikaners William J(oseph) Seymour verknüpft. Dieser übernahm die Erkenntnisse Parhams und predigte sie, ohne selbst in Zungen reden zu können. Nach jahrelangem Suchen, Bitten und Fasten kam es schließlich zu einem dramatischen Durchbruch. Seymour zog nach Los Angeles, wo tatsächlich am 9.4.1906, nach fünf Wochen Predigttätigkeit, der erste Bekehrte in Zungen zu reden begann. Schnell folgten andere, so dass man in der Azusa-Street 312 ein leerstehendes Kirchengebäude mietete und mit (vor allem von Afro-Amerikanern besuchten) Versammlungen der Apostolic Faith Mission in Los Angeles begann, die schnell Aufsehen erregten. Es kam zu einer Massenbewegung von Tausenden, die unter Schreien, Umfallen, Tanzen und Zittern die Zungenrede empfingen, bald auch die Gabe der Heilung und der Prophetie zu haben beanspruchten. Von dort aus verbreiteten sich die Impulse rasend schnell in viele Teile der Welt. In Los Angeles bestand die ursprüngliche Bewegung nur drei Jahre lang. Aufgrund seiner Lehrauffassung, dass mit dem Geist Getaufte durch Sünde wieder ihr Heil verlören, weigerte sich Seymour, unterscheidend oder begrenzend die Entwicklungen zu steuern. Die ursprüngliche Gemeinde verlor sich binnen Kurzem in einer Vielzahl von Spaltungen. Bald hatte sich Seymour mit seinem Lehrer Parham überworfen, auch viele Lehrer der Geistestaufe wie Torrey lehnten die neue Bewegung entschieden ab. Aber die Anstöße der Azusa-Street, welche die Zungenrede kirchengeschichtlich zum ersten Mal als eine für alle Christen mögliche Geistesgabe behandelten, wirkten sich weltweit aus.
[COLOR=hsl(var(--darkAccent-hsl))]
4. Die Bewegung erreicht Europa[/COLOR]
Der norwegische Prediger Thomas Ball Barrat kam im Herbst 1906 in New York in eine Zungenrednerversammlung. Dort ließ er sich von einer Pastorenfrau aus Los Angeles und einem Norweger die Hände auflegen und begann in Zungen zu reden. Nachdem er Ende 1906 nach Norwegen zurückgekehrt war, traten auch dort in seinen Versammlungen in Christiania (Oslo) Zungenreden und Krankenheilungen auf. Auch in England und Indien kam es 1907 zu Aufbrüchen der Bewegung. Vor allem in Norwegen (Christiania, jetzt Oslo) fand die neue Bewegung raschen Eingang, ebenso in England, wo viele Kreise die sehnsüchtig auf eine große Erweckung warteten. 1907 erlebten in Indien einige Kreise ebenfalls einen pfingstlichen Durchbruch.
[COLOR=hsl(var(--darkAccent-hsl))]
5. Der Beginn der Zungenbewegung in Deutschland[/COLOR]
Es war vor allem die in der Gemeinschaftsbewegung durch die Ereignisse in Wales angeheizte starke Erwartung einer neuen Geistestaufe, die in Deutschland der Pfingstbewegung die Tür öffnete. Einige deutsche Vertreter der Heiligungsbewegung reisten deshalb 1907 nach Norwegen, um sich ein eigenes Bild von den neuen Aufbrüchen zu machen, so auch Emil Meyer, den Leiter der Hamburger Strandmission. Er bat die beiden Norwegerinnen Dagmar Gregersen und Agnes Telle mit nach Deutschland zu kommen. Ihr Auftreten führte in der Strandmission und in einem Jugendbund zu vereinzeltem Zungenreden. Emil Meyer bat dann den Evangelisten Heinrich Dallmeyer in Hamburg zu evangelisieren. Dort kam Dallmeyer in Kontakt mit den Norwegerinnen und begann mit ihnen zusammen zu arbeiten. Vom 7.7.-2.8.1907 evangelisierte Dallmeyer daraufhin mit den Norwegerinnen im Saal des Kasseler Blaukreuzvereins. Zunächst wurden vor allem in Gemeinschaftskreisen die Nachrichten von der neuen Bewegung mit offenen Herzen aufgenommen. In den ersten Tagen kamen die einflussreichen Gnadauer Elias Schrenk und Theodor Haarbeck persönlich nach Kassel und beurteilten die Bewegung als von Gott kommend. Doch mit zunehmender Dauer entwickelten die Versammlungen eine eigene Dynamik. Es kam zu anstößigen Phänomenen wie lautem Schreien, Zischen, Prophetien in der ersten Person Gottes . Die Prophetien bekamen einen immer härteren und drohenden Ton, Sünden wurden offenbart, allen, die sich versperrten, wurde mit Rauswurf gedroht. Dallmeyer sagte später, er hätte von den Norwegerinnen persönliche Offenbarungen erhalten, er solle die Versammlungen unbedingt fortsetzen, er müsse den Kontakt etwa mit Schrenk abbrechen, er solle verkünden, die Gabe der Geisterunterscheidung empfangen zu haben, usw. Die erste kritische Beurteilung von außen kam vom Prediger Otto Schopf (FEG). Die Freien evangelischen Gemeinden hatten in ihren Kreisen eine Reihe von Erfahrungen mit schwarmgeistigen Bewegungen gemacht, die sie nun besonders vorsichtig und hellhörig machten. Doch auch vielen Gnadauern kam zunehmend verdächtig klingendes zu Ohren.
Its from evangelische Hochschule Tabor in Marburg, germany
Better in english
[COLOR=hsl(var(--darkAccent-hsl))]Speaking in Tongues in Topeka[/COLOR]
In recent church history there have been very isolated examples of glossolalia, such as among the French Carmisards, the German inspired under Friedrich Rock, the Irvingians (Catholic Apostolic Church) and the Mormons. In 1900, the revivalist preacher Charles F(ox) Parham (1873-1929) developed the view that, according to Acts 2, speaking in tongues alone is the authenticating sign of the baptism of the Spirit. After Parham had announced his new insight at the Bethel Bible School in Topeka (Kansas), he prayed intensively with some students for the baptism of the Spirit with its signs. Finally, on January 1, 1901, there was indeed a breakthrough when the student Agnes Ozman began to speak in tongues. A few days later, about half of the students and Parham herself experienced this, which was interpreted as the seal of the baptism of the Spirit.
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3. Azusa Street 1906 – The Beginning of the Pentecostal Movement[/COLOR]
The final breakthrough of this new movement is linked to the work of the African American William J(oseph) Seymour. He adopted Parham's findings and preached them without being able to speak in tongues himself. After years of searching, pleading and fasting, a dramatic breakthrough finally came. Seymour moved to Los Angeles, where on April 9, 1906, after five weeks of preaching, the first convert began to speak in tongues. Others quickly followed, so that an empty church building at 312 Azusa Street was rented and meetings of the Apostolic Faith Mission in Los Angeles began (attended mainly by African Americans), which quickly attracted attention. A mass movement of thousands ensued, who received the gift of speaking in tongues while screaming, falling over, dancing and trembling, and soon claimed to have the gift of healing and prophecy. From there, the impulses spread rapidly to many parts of the world. In Los Angeles, the original movement only lasted three years. Due to his doctrinal view that those baptized with the Spirit lose their salvation through sin, Seymour refused to control developments by discriminating or limiting them. The original community quickly lost itself in a multitude of divisions. Seymour soon fell out with his teacher Parham, and many teachers of baptism in the Spirit, such as Torrey, also firmly rejected the new movement. But the impulses from Azusa Street, which for the first time in church history treated speaking in tongues as a spiritual gift available to all Christians, had an impact worldwide.
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4. The movement reaches Europe[/COLOR]
In the autumn of 1906, the Norwegian preacher Thomas Ball Barrat attended a meeting of people speaking in tongues in New York. There he had hands laid on him by a pastor's wife from Los Angeles and a Norwegian man and began to speak in tongues. After he returned to Norway at the end of 1906, speaking in tongues and healings also occurred in his meetings in Christiania (Oslo). The movement also began in England and India in 1907. The new movement quickly found its way into Norway (Christiania, now Oslo) in particular, as well as in England, where many circles were eagerly awaiting a great revival. In 1907, some circles in India also experienced a Pentecostal breakthrough.
[COLOR=hsl(var(--darkAccent-hsl))]
5. The Beginning of the Tongue Movement in Germany[/COLOR]
It was above all the strong expectation of a new baptism of the Spirit, fuelled by the events in Wales, that opened the door to the Pentecostal movement in Germany. Some German representatives of the holiness movement therefore travelled to Norway in 1907 to form their own opinion of the new developments, including Emil Meyer, the head of the Hamburg Beach Mission. He asked the two Norwegian women, Dagmar Gregersen and Agnes Telle, to come with him to Germany. Their appearance led to occasional speaking in tongues in the Beach Mission and in a youth group. Emil Meyer then asked the evangelist Heinrich Dallmeyer to evangelise in Hamburg. There Dallmeyer came into contact with the Norwegian women and began to work with them. From July 7th to August 2nd, 1907, Dallmeyer evangelised with the Norwegian women in the hall of the Kassel Blue Cross Association. At first, the news of the new movement was received with open hearts, especially in community circles. In the first few days, the influential Gnadauers Elias Schrenk and Theodor Haarbeck came to Kassel in person and judged the movement to be coming from God. But as time went on, the meetings developed a dynamic of their own. There were offensive phenomena such as loud shouting, hissing, and prophecies in the first person of God. The prophecies took on an increasingly harsh and threatening tone, sins were revealed, and anyone who resisted was threatened with expulsion. Dallmeyer later said that he had received personal revelations from the Norwegian women that he should definitely continue the meetings, that he should break off contact with Schrenk, for example, that he should announce that he had received the gift of discernment of spirits, etc. The first critical assessment from outside came from the preacher Otto Schopf (FEG). The Free Evangelical Congregations had had a number of experiences with fanatic movements in their circles, which now made them particularly cautious and alert. But many Gnadauers were also increasingly hearing things that sounded suspicious. Elias Schrenk wrote a letter warning that the meetings should be stopped immediately, as a false spirit had crept in. Finally, the meetings were stopped at the insistence of the Kassel police, as the public had become increasingly offended by the excitement surrounding the meetings. Similar events were also held in Großalmerode, although they were somewhat less chaotic.
Its from the evangelische Hochschule Tabor in Marburg, Germany