Understanding God’s election
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What does being made i the image of God have anything to do with how life was sustained in the
garden pre-fall? There is absolutely NOTHING in Scripture to suggest that Adam and Eve had to eat
from the Tree of Life to sustain their existence. It is an assumption you have made and it is illogical.
You may as well say that the breath of life from God that animates all flesh is not enough to give life.
garden pre-fall? There is absolutely NOTHING in Scripture to suggest that Adam and Eve had to eat
from the Tree of Life to sustain their existence. It is an assumption you have made and it is illogical.
You may as well say that the breath of life from God that animates all flesh is not enough to give life.
But that doesn't mean that Adam appropriated by faith the sacrifice God made. I discuss this verse in my argument. Look at the Jews under the Old Covenant and how God became totally disgusted with their animal sacrifices that they MADE -- because they didn't make them with faith or in good faith or with righteous intentions. Conversely, there is biblical evidence that Eve did put her faith in God. But there is zero evidence that Adam did.
Blah, blah, blah, blah... Still haven't found one explicit positive statement about Adam, have you? Next,
you'll be telling us that Adam should be proud the he's contrasted with Christ all throughout scripture.
you'll be telling us that Adam should be proud the he's contrasted with Christ all throughout scripture.
Here's the main argument I posted previously back on 3/27 on the Atonement thread wherein the preponderance of evidence strongly points to Unconditional Election in the post-Fall Garden. God chose to save Eve, while rejecting Adam. Since there are only two seeds mentioned in Gen 3:15, Adam must fall under one of them. But...logically it cannot be under Eve's godly seed, since Adam did not descend from Eve; therefore, Adam has to be one of the Serpent's seeds, since Satan was created prior to Adam. There is simply no third option.
Additional arguments will follow this one.
Below is my argument that the post-fall Genesis narrative is illustrative of the Doctrines of Grace. Here it is in kernel form:
1. Rom 5:10 and a host of other scriptures teach that sinners are enemies of God. However, Gen 3:15 clearly implies
that by God sovereignly decreeing enmity between the Serpent and Eve, He also removed the enmity between her and Himself
that resulted due to her sin. For how could Eve have been at enmity with Good and Evil (God and the devil, respectively) at once? God, therefore, reconciled Eve to himself by decreeing enmity between her and the serpent. Adam, however, is conspicuously absent in that decree.
2. God also placed enmity between the woman's seed and the serpent's, which which a highly unusual way in the ancient world of expressing progeny, for this was commonly expressed in male terms. Moreover, these two seeds represent the woman's godly line and the serpent's ungodly line. The fact that the godly seed does not descend from Adam can only mean that Adam was the seed of the serpent.
3. Eve manifested faith toward God after the Fall by giving credit twice to Him for giving her a "man-child", which she doubtlessly believed was the promised "seed" in Gen 3:15 (cf. 4:1,25).
4. Adam named his wife Eve, which means "mother of all living" (Gen3:20). This phrase means more than Eve merely being the grand matriarch of the human race; it's much more likely that she is the spiritual mother of all the godly seed by virtue of the ultimate promised "seed" (Christ) who would descend from her to crush the serpent's head, thereby significantly adding more weight to her redemptive status.
5. Eve is a type of the Bride of Christ in several respects. See next post for these details.
6. Not only isn't there any evidence that Adam had true faith, but his sin is characterized as "transgression" (Rom 5:15). Additionally,
Adam was quite arrogant toward God when he was asked by God what he had done. Adam insinuated to God his culpability for Eve's sin when he said, "The woman YOU gave to me..." (3:12), implying that God had given him defective goods. (And this kind of retort to this day is a favorite argument among atheists and other skeptics.)
7. Adam hid his transgression from God (Job 31:33), which is extremely displeasing to Him (Prov 28:13; Mat 23:25-28) and the consequences, thereof, can be seen in the lives of Cain, Saul and Ananias and Sapphira (Gen 4:9; 1Sam 15:13-24; Act 5:1-11, respectively).
8. It's clear from 3:22-25 that God's anger was directed solely toward Adam. It was "the man" whom God drove out of the Garden. This time Eve is conspicuously excluded.
9. It was "the man" who God explicitly kept from the "tree of life". Again, Eve was excluded from God's angry remarks.
10. The Hebrew word "garash" (Strong's 1644) translated "drove" (Gen 3:24) is a strong term that denotes being cast out, driven away, thrust out. Adam wasn't politely showed the gate out of the Garden; he was in no uncertain terms unceremoniously "evicted". This term is frequently used in the OT with respect to either God driving out his enemies or the enemies of his chosen people (cf. Gen 4:14; 21:10, Ex 6:1; 10:11; 11:1; Num 22:6; Deut 33:27; Josh 24:12, etc.)
Moreover, in the Greek, the term "ekballo" translated "drove out " or "cast out" is employed in the NT with respect to Christ's enemies
(cf. Mat 8:12). It is used also when Jesus casts out demons (Mat 10:1; 13:50). And used again when he casts out the money changers from the temple twice (Mk 11:15; Mat 21:12; Lk 19:46.
11. Adam is the only individual type of Christ that has the dubious distinction of being portrayed in the NT by contrasts to Christ (Rom 5:12-21; 1Cor 15:20-21,45.) There are no positive statements about Adam in scripture. A very dubious distinction indeed!
12. Whereas Eve's name means "mother of all living" (interestingly, the Septuagint renders "Eve" literally as "Life"), Adam is not the spiritual father of God's chosen people; rather, Abraham is (Rom 4:11,16-18; Gal 3:7, etc.)! This strongly suggests that Adam, unlike Abraham, was not a man of faith!
13. Adam, like the angels, had direct empirical evidence for God's existence, as God directly communicated with him, communed with him, brought the animals to him and created Eve from his side. Since God chose to not provide any salvific remedy for the fallen angels who had this kind of direct knowledge, Adam's salvation, under these circumstances, would be unprecedented in scripture.
14. All the foregoing strongly supports Remnant Theology in scripture, as God has always had but a remnant of his faithful witnesses upon the earth during any particular time period -- the "7,000 who have never bowed a knee to Baal", Noah and his family during the Flood, etc. The exclusion of Adam, therefore, from salvation is consistent with scripture; whereas the salvation of both our first parents would be unprecedented since they comprised the entire human race at the time of the Fall.
15. The election of Eve and the rejection of Adam also set the precedent for how God dealt with other pairs of humans, e.g. Ishmael and Issac and Jacob and Esau. This pattern, again, demonstrates the consistency of scripture, thereby strongly reinforcing the conclusion to this argument.
For all these reasons, I do not see Adam's salvation in scripture. While one might argue that God provided coverings for both Adam and Eve (Gen 3:21),these coverings were very likely the skins of innocent slain animals, this doesn't necessarily mean that Adam embraced that symbolic sin covering through repentance and faith; whereas, there is evidence that Eve did so. Cain wore coverings, too, but obviously did not accept their significance or the significance of blood sacrifices. Israel, too, went through all the ritualistic motions of sacrifices for atonement purposes that God had ordained, but both Judah and Israel were apostate nations!
Also, we should not be distracted by the fact that Eve was also evicted from the Garden along with her husband, and she was also forbidden to eat of the Tree of Life, as Adam was. Eve suffered temporal (or natural) punishment for her sin, as Adam did for his. Eve's punishment (discipline) served as the template for how God often deals with his saints' sins in this world (Heb 12:7-11; Psalm 32, etc.). But nonetheless, Eve was not condemned, whereas the foregoing preponderance of evidence strongly suggests that Adam was. With this kind of evidence I can only conclude that God sovereignly elected Eve unto salvation and adopted her into his family. Conversely, all the negative arguments against Adam can only suggest God election of him unto reprobation. Notwithstanding the very weak argument of Gen 3:21, there is not one positive indicator in Adam's favor found throughout all the bible.
Additional arguments will follow this one.
What Really Happened in the Garden After the Fall?
Below is my argument that the post-fall Genesis narrative is illustrative of the Doctrines of Grace. Here it is in kernel form:
1. Rom 5:10 and a host of other scriptures teach that sinners are enemies of God. However, Gen 3:15 clearly implies
that by God sovereignly decreeing enmity between the Serpent and Eve, He also removed the enmity between her and Himself
that resulted due to her sin. For how could Eve have been at enmity with Good and Evil (God and the devil, respectively) at once? God, therefore, reconciled Eve to himself by decreeing enmity between her and the serpent. Adam, however, is conspicuously absent in that decree.
2. God also placed enmity between the woman's seed and the serpent's, which which a highly unusual way in the ancient world of expressing progeny, for this was commonly expressed in male terms. Moreover, these two seeds represent the woman's godly line and the serpent's ungodly line. The fact that the godly seed does not descend from Adam can only mean that Adam was the seed of the serpent.
3. Eve manifested faith toward God after the Fall by giving credit twice to Him for giving her a "man-child", which she doubtlessly believed was the promised "seed" in Gen 3:15 (cf. 4:1,25).
4. Adam named his wife Eve, which means "mother of all living" (Gen3:20). This phrase means more than Eve merely being the grand matriarch of the human race; it's much more likely that she is the spiritual mother of all the godly seed by virtue of the ultimate promised "seed" (Christ) who would descend from her to crush the serpent's head, thereby significantly adding more weight to her redemptive status.
5. Eve is a type of the Bride of Christ in several respects. See next post for these details.
6. Not only isn't there any evidence that Adam had true faith, but his sin is characterized as "transgression" (Rom 5:15). Additionally,
Adam was quite arrogant toward God when he was asked by God what he had done. Adam insinuated to God his culpability for Eve's sin when he said, "The woman YOU gave to me..." (3:12), implying that God had given him defective goods. (And this kind of retort to this day is a favorite argument among atheists and other skeptics.)
7. Adam hid his transgression from God (Job 31:33), which is extremely displeasing to Him (Prov 28:13; Mat 23:25-28) and the consequences, thereof, can be seen in the lives of Cain, Saul and Ananias and Sapphira (Gen 4:9; 1Sam 15:13-24; Act 5:1-11, respectively).
8. It's clear from 3:22-25 that God's anger was directed solely toward Adam. It was "the man" whom God drove out of the Garden. This time Eve is conspicuously excluded.
9. It was "the man" who God explicitly kept from the "tree of life". Again, Eve was excluded from God's angry remarks.
10. The Hebrew word "garash" (Strong's 1644) translated "drove" (Gen 3:24) is a strong term that denotes being cast out, driven away, thrust out. Adam wasn't politely showed the gate out of the Garden; he was in no uncertain terms unceremoniously "evicted". This term is frequently used in the OT with respect to either God driving out his enemies or the enemies of his chosen people (cf. Gen 4:14; 21:10, Ex 6:1; 10:11; 11:1; Num 22:6; Deut 33:27; Josh 24:12, etc.)
Moreover, in the Greek, the term "ekballo" translated "drove out " or "cast out" is employed in the NT with respect to Christ's enemies
(cf. Mat 8:12). It is used also when Jesus casts out demons (Mat 10:1; 13:50). And used again when he casts out the money changers from the temple twice (Mk 11:15; Mat 21:12; Lk 19:46.
11. Adam is the only individual type of Christ that has the dubious distinction of being portrayed in the NT by contrasts to Christ (Rom 5:12-21; 1Cor 15:20-21,45.) There are no positive statements about Adam in scripture. A very dubious distinction indeed!
12. Whereas Eve's name means "mother of all living" (interestingly, the Septuagint renders "Eve" literally as "Life"), Adam is not the spiritual father of God's chosen people; rather, Abraham is (Rom 4:11,16-18; Gal 3:7, etc.)! This strongly suggests that Adam, unlike Abraham, was not a man of faith!
13. Adam, like the angels, had direct empirical evidence for God's existence, as God directly communicated with him, communed with him, brought the animals to him and created Eve from his side. Since God chose to not provide any salvific remedy for the fallen angels who had this kind of direct knowledge, Adam's salvation, under these circumstances, would be unprecedented in scripture.
14. All the foregoing strongly supports Remnant Theology in scripture, as God has always had but a remnant of his faithful witnesses upon the earth during any particular time period -- the "7,000 who have never bowed a knee to Baal", Noah and his family during the Flood, etc. The exclusion of Adam, therefore, from salvation is consistent with scripture; whereas the salvation of both our first parents would be unprecedented since they comprised the entire human race at the time of the Fall.
15. The election of Eve and the rejection of Adam also set the precedent for how God dealt with other pairs of humans, e.g. Ishmael and Issac and Jacob and Esau. This pattern, again, demonstrates the consistency of scripture, thereby strongly reinforcing the conclusion to this argument.
For all these reasons, I do not see Adam's salvation in scripture. While one might argue that God provided coverings for both Adam and Eve (Gen 3:21),these coverings were very likely the skins of innocent slain animals, this doesn't necessarily mean that Adam embraced that symbolic sin covering through repentance and faith; whereas, there is evidence that Eve did so. Cain wore coverings, too, but obviously did not accept their significance or the significance of blood sacrifices. Israel, too, went through all the ritualistic motions of sacrifices for atonement purposes that God had ordained, but both Judah and Israel were apostate nations!
Also, we should not be distracted by the fact that Eve was also evicted from the Garden along with her husband, and she was also forbidden to eat of the Tree of Life, as Adam was. Eve suffered temporal (or natural) punishment for her sin, as Adam did for his. Eve's punishment (discipline) served as the template for how God often deals with his saints' sins in this world (Heb 12:7-11; Psalm 32, etc.). But nonetheless, Eve was not condemned, whereas the foregoing preponderance of evidence strongly suggests that Adam was. With this kind of evidence I can only conclude that God sovereignly elected Eve unto salvation and adopted her into his family. Conversely, all the negative arguments against Adam can only suggest God election of him unto reprobation. Notwithstanding the very weak argument of Gen 3:21, there is not one positive indicator in Adam's favor found throughout all the bible.
Adam is a Type of Satan
1 Timothy 2:14
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived became a sinner.
NIV
2 Cor 11:3
3 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.
NIV
The Word tells us Adam was not deceived which means Adam knew eating of the tree was a sin before he did it. That of course is worse than what Eve did but of course does not absolve her of wrong doing.
Adam was not deceived by the devil! In fact, when Adam told God that the woman "you gave me" gave me the fruit and I ate of, he didn't even claim that Eve deceived him! This is precisely what makes Adam's sin most egregious, as you have rightly suggested: Adam sinned with his eyes wide open! It's no wonder his sin is classified as TRANSGRESSION! The best Adam could do with his answer to God is to insinuate to God's face that He had given him a defective woman, thereby not owning his transgression! Adam's sin, ultimately, was the sin of PRIDE -- and not a result of deception -- unless you include self-deception. Doesn't scripture teach that pride goeth before destruction and haughty spirit before a fall (Prov 16:18)? Adam has much in common with his spriritual daddy; for pride was the evil one's downfall, too, wasn't it? Adam's sin is that he wanted to be just like God (have His knowledge of Good and Evil). The devil, too, wanted to be just like God, as you might recall.
There are other ways, too, that Adam is like Satan. You might recall from my argument that Adam, like Satan, had empirical proof of God's existence; whereas Eve did not. But here's another way Adam is like his spiritual father the Serpent: You might recall that Satan was a being of unusual and striking beauty. Apparently, no created being compared to him. Adam, too, had the distinction as being endowed with unusually high intelligence, evidently born with a great deal of working knowledge of this world. For one thing, he was this world's first scientist (in multiple disciplines no less!), for God initially tasked him with the job of classifying and naming all the animals. (In today's world that discipline of science is called Taxonomy.) He was also tasked with the awesome, mind-blowing responsibility of cultivating the Garden so that it would extend throughout the entire earth. (That science discipline, of course, is known today as Horticulture.)
Finally, there is a fourth way Adam is like the devil! It is said in holy writ that the devil holds the power of death (Heb 2:14). Yet, at the same time scripture teaches that death came upon the whole world by one man's transgression (Rom 5:12-20; 1Cor 15:22). Talk about "like father like son"!
In closing, not only is Adam contrasted with Christ, and not only does scripture speak of him in negative terms in other respects, but now we find that he has quite a bit in common with the Serpent of old; for they both shared the same dubious qualities or distinctions. Adam: Very much unlike Christ and very much like his spiritual father. Who can reasonably think this is a winning [spiritual] Xacta for Adam!?
Finally, this is how Eve is a type of Bride of Christ. Similar arguments to the one here can be found on the web. This has been a recognized truth for quite some time.
There was a very good reason that Eve was created out of Adam’s rib and then presented to him as his wife, and the reason is found in Ephesians 5:23-33.
1. Just as Adam is a type of Christ, Eve is a type of the Church.
2. Christ, the Son of God, existed independently of the Church from eternity, thus Adam first existed independently of Eve.
3. Adam was put to sleep in order that Eve might be taken out of his side as a rib. Christ was “put to sleep” in His death and burial so that the Church might be born on the Day of Pentecost.
4. Eve was taken out of Adam’s side, just as the Church was born out of the blood and water that flowed out of the side of Christ.
5. Eve was bone of Adam’s bone and flesh of his flesh, just as the Church (the Body of Christ) is bone of His bones and flesh of His flesh (Eph. 5:30).
6. Eve was presented by God the Father to Adam as his bride and his wife, just as the Church has been presented to Christ as His Bride and will become the Lamb’s Wife.
8. When Eve was presented to Adam she was spotless and without sin. When the Church becomes the Lamb’s wife she will be spotless and without sin (Eph. 5:27).
9. Just as Adam and Eve became “one flesh” in their marriage, Christ and the Church (his Bride) will be eternally united in holy matrimony and in a union that is perfect.
It is truly amazing that most preachers never bring out these truths regarding Adam and Eve. But there is your answer.
Eve is a Type of Bride of Christ
There was a very good reason that Eve was created out of Adam’s rib and then presented to him as his wife, and the reason is found in Ephesians 5:23-33.
1. Just as Adam is a type of Christ, Eve is a type of the Church.
2. Christ, the Son of God, existed independently of the Church from eternity, thus Adam first existed independently of Eve.
3. Adam was put to sleep in order that Eve might be taken out of his side as a rib. Christ was “put to sleep” in His death and burial so that the Church might be born on the Day of Pentecost.
4. Eve was taken out of Adam’s side, just as the Church was born out of the blood and water that flowed out of the side of Christ.
5. Eve was bone of Adam’s bone and flesh of his flesh, just as the Church (the Body of Christ) is bone of His bones and flesh of His flesh (Eph. 5:30).
6. Eve was presented by God the Father to Adam as his bride and his wife, just as the Church has been presented to Christ as His Bride and will become the Lamb’s Wife.
8. When Eve was presented to Adam she was spotless and without sin. When the Church becomes the Lamb’s wife she will be spotless and without sin (Eph. 5:27).
9. Just as Adam and Eve became “one flesh” in their marriage, Christ and the Church (his Bride) will be eternally united in holy matrimony and in a union that is perfect.
It is truly amazing that most preachers never bring out these truths regarding Adam and Eve. But there is your answer.
Christ is certainly the ultimate godly seed. But not the only seed. Don't forget: Even Adam gave her a name that signified that she was the "mother of all the living". And we see the interaction between the two seeds quickly when we consider Cain (the ungodly seed of the Serpent) and Abel (the Woman's godly seed).
Satan is the father of all liars.
The seed of Satan is figurative.
The seed of the woman is literal.
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God.
I have not come on my own; God sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are
unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your
father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no
truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies."
John 8:42-44
The seed of Satan is figurative.
The seed of the woman is literal.
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God.
I have not come on my own; God sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are
unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your
father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no
truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies."
John 8:42-44
Both the woman's and the serpent's seeds are spiritual. By "literal" for the woman, I take it you mean that her seed would be physical? But that doesn't make sense since the Serpent doesn't produce any physical offspring -- just spiritual seed. Also, if the Woman's seed is just physical in nature that would mean that she's the mother of the entire human race -- godly and ungodly unlike, which militates against context of Gen 3:15. Therefore, both seeds are spiritual. She is the spiritual mother of all her godly seed, whereas Satan is the spiritual father of all his ungodly seed.
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