Understanding God’s election

[Rufus]

Adam had access to the tree of life after the fall for a period of time. He by brutal sheer FREE will refused to eat of it (the temptation must have been immense) and prevented the Woman from eating as well.

God set cherubim to guard the tree of life only AFTER THE TRIAL.

In other words, your sidekick Genez was wrong. God didn't remove the tree of life, he ejected Adam from the Garden wherein the tree was located. Thanks for the confirmation. Now go and straighten your buddy out.

Oh...and Adam didn't seek the tree of life out because he was preoccupied with running and hiding from God. So there is that... I know you want to make Adam some kind of hero....but he's not!

 

[Genez]

Grace means favor. It's God's disposition towards his people

H2580 חֵן chen (chane) n-m.
1. graciousness.
2. (subjective) kindness, favor.

G5484 χάριν charin (cha'-riyn) adv.
1. (properly) on account of grace or favor.

That's how the word 'gracious' can be used.

But, Paul who was revealing the mystery that had been hidden, revealed another aspect.

It's not always a lovey-dovey God's expression. That was intended for baby Christians.
But, God wants us to grow up in Christ and fully mature.

It's also God's power for meaning business and supplying his troupes with the needed power their life will require, according to His imputed abilities (gifts) given each believer.

Paul revealed that for the mature believer, grace means God's power being granted by the Spirit, for each believer to fight the good fight against the world, the flesh, and the Devil.

"But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain; ​

.but I worked harder than all them, yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me”. 1 Corinthians 15:10​

​

​

"Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he said to me, ​

“My grace is sufficient for you, .for my power is made perfect in weakness.” ​

​

Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. ​

That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in .hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. ​

For when I am weak, then I am strong." 2 Corinthians 12:8-10​

Our succeding in doing God's will can not have been accomplished unless God supplied us with the needed grace power and thinking, all supplied by means of His Spirit in us!

When we are supposed to have reached maturity? Remaining stubborn and calling it personal conviction is actually being weak, not strong by grace. Yes... We needed conviction to pull us through to where God would fill us with power that gives us resting and inner peace... No more fighting by means of our emotions.

Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion ​

looking for someone to devour. Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you ​

know that the family of believers throughout the world is undergoing the same kind ​

of sufferings.​

​

And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal glory in Christ, after you have ​

suffered a little while, will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast. ​

​

1 Peter 5:8-10​

Search and pray... Find someone who can teach you the word of God on the same level that Peter, Paul, and John did.

For only sound doctrine can make ya believer able to enter into His rest, making one strong, firm and steadfast.

For those who have ears to hear.....

 

[Genez]

I'd like to read chapter and verse also.

Why have to given up?

 

[Genez]

Absolutely. Didn't Jesus heal the blind? Well...he healed my spiritual blindness, too!

More to it than that.... It will shake you to your core.

That's why it says...

Work out your own salvation in fear and trembling.

 

[cv5]

If Adam had not, then he would have been more powerful than God. God most assuredly "decreed" the Fall -- just as he decreed all the wicked things that happened to his beloved Son; yet, in both cases God did not become the author of sin or force anyone to sin. A&E, Just like Jesus' enemies, freely chose what they wanted to do. Judas, for example, blamed neither Satan who possessed him before betraying Jesus, nor did he blame God who decreed everything that happened. Judas bore his own personal guilt.

"God most assuredly "decreed" the Fall"

And there goes your Calvinista programming kicking in to gear like a broken record.

God knows the end from the beginning, yes. But He does NOT create sin or evil. Ever. He is pure good and only does good.
In fact it is IMPOSSIBLE for God to be the slightest bit evil.

All of the wicked players back in Jesus day were exercising their OWN WILL, and it was indeed evil. And Holy God had no part in the wicked desires of their heart and evil machinations. However, God knowing all things and the end from the beginning and being outside of time has DEVASTATING advantage and CAN NEVER LOSE AN ENCOUNTER nor can He be thwarted, blamed, deceived, make a mistake, fail, or any other sin.

Jhn 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

[rogerg]

More to it than that.... It will shake you to your core.

That's why it says...

Work out your own salvation in fear and trembling.

[Phl 2:13 KJV] 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

That's how the word 'gracious' can be used.

But, Paul who was revealing the mystery that had been hidden, revealed another aspect.

It's not always a lovey-dovey God's expression. That was intended for baby Christians.
But, God wants us to grow up in Christ and fully mature.

It's also God's power for meaning business and supplying his troupes with the needed power their life will require, according to His imputed abilities (gifts) given each believer.

Paul revealed that for the mature believer, grace means God's power being granted by the Spirit, for each believer to fight the good fight against the world, the flesh, and the Devil.

"But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain; ​

.but I worked harder than all them, yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me”. 1 Corinthians 15:10​

​

​

"Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he said to me, ​

“My grace is sufficient for you, .for my power is made perfect in weakness.” ​

​

Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. ​

That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in .hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. ​

For when I am weak, then I am strong." 2 Corinthians 12:8-10​

Our succeding in doing God's will can not have been accomplished unless God supplied us with the needed grace power and thinking, all supplied by means of His Spirit in us!

When we are supposed to have reached maturity? Remaining stubborn and calling it personal conviction is actually being weak, not strong by grace. Yes... We needed conviction to pull us through to where God would fill us with power that gives us resting and inner peace... No more fighting by means of our emotions.

Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion ​

looking for someone to devour. Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you ​

know that the family of believers throughout the world is undergoing the same kind ​

of sufferings.​

​

And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal glory in Christ, after you have ​

suffered a little while, will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast. ​

​

1 Peter 5:8-10​

Search and pray... Find someone who can teach you the word of God on the same level that Peter, Paul, and John did.

For only sound doctrine can make ya believer able to enter into His rest, making one strong, firm and steadfast.

For those who have ears to hear.....

Grace is not power. That's a gnostic idea. God's power comes through the holy spirit

 

[MeowFlower]

Hate means various realities.
When it comes to hating father, mother, sister, and brother?

It is referred to the kind of hate when you can not stand a certain food.
You'll just push it away and eat something else.

If we are to hate our mother,father,etc..to be Disciples of Jesus isn't that a contradiction to the 5th commandment?

 

[Rufus]

@rogerg


You dont really ? Im surprised at that Roger, Christ was setup preordained to die for the elect before the world began 1 Pet 1:19-20
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

So Adam had to conform to Gods set purpose



I believe the tree of life was there to sustain the physical life they had from creation, and that life was sustained as long as they obeyed Gods commandment not to eat of the other forbidden tree



God didnt tempt them, the devil did, and believe it or not the devil was acting in concert with Gods set purpose



It was, it was ordained to spiritual life, the law was given to the elect to bring them to faith in Christ

Gal 3:24-26

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Through their eating, they found their need for Christ, the seed of the women,

I believe Adam and Eve were the first Christians to believe in Christ.

Adam was condemned in the Garden. God reconciled only Eve unto himself when He placed enmity between her and the Serpent and between her seed and the Serpent's seed. There was no reconciliation with Adam.

 

[Rufus]

More to it than that.... It will shake you to your core.

That's why it says...

Work out your own salvation in fear and trembling.

Yup that a Christian's responsibility which he will live up to by the power of God's GRACE! Ultimately, it's God who makes us STAND...not our free will.

 

[cv5]

Adam was condemned in the Garden. God reconciled only Eve unto himself when He placed enmity between her and the Serpent and between her seed and the Serpent's seed. There was no reconciliation with Adam.

What is this rubbish?

Both Adam and the Woman were SAVED/REDEEMED. Absolutely no doubt about it.
Its right there in black and white.....if you can read.

And the whole dynamic of Adam in the garden results him being honored by this being said of his tremendous SACRAFICE:

Rom 5:14
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

So what are you going to come up with now?
That Adam being compared to God Himself and HIS OWN SACRAFICE is not in fact a great honor?

 

[Rufus]

What is this rubbish?

Both Adam and the Woman were SAVED/REDEEMED. Absolutely no doubt about it.
Its right there in black and white.....if you can read.

And the whole dynamic of Adam in the garden results him being honored by this being said of his tremendous SACRAFICE:

Rom 5:14
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

So what are you going to come up with now?
That Adam being compared to God Himself and HIS OWN SACRAFICE is not in fact a great honor?

You don't read too swell, do you? First, Read Gen 3:15 and show me where Adam is in that verse.

Secondly, Adam is type of Christ by CONTRASTS! There's not one positive thing said about Adam in scripture -- unless of course you think someone being contrasted with Jesus is a good thing. Is that what you think?

Still trying to make a hero out of Adam, aren't you? I suppose in your universe it's not a big deal if someone dies in Adam instead of in the Last Adam, is it? I mean...why not die in Adam since you seem to think he was the paragon of virtue, righteousness and holiness?

 

[Rufus]

You don't read too swell, do you? First, Read Gen 3:15 and show me where Adam is in that verse.

Secondly, Adam is type of Christ by CONTRASTS! He's NOT being compared to Christ! There's not one positive thing said about Adam in scripture -- unless of course you think someone being contrasted with Jesus is a good thing. Is that what you think?

Still trying to make a hero out of Adam, aren't you? I suppose in your universe it's not a big deal if someone dies in Adam instead of in the Last Adam, is it? I mean...why not die in Adam since you seem to think he was the paragon of virtue, righteousness and holiness?

 

[ocean]

What is there to check if history is silent on Calvin's conversion? And I do follow Jesus. After all he did say once upon a time:

John 6:65
65 He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him ."
NIV

Surprise, surprise. The Lord did not say that no one can come to me unless they exercise their "sovereign free will".

History is not silent with regards to Calvin's beliefs. If a person is a Calvinist, they interpret scripture through the lens of Calvinism. The gospel does not depend on following Calvin.

 

[Genez]

"God most assuredly "decreed" the Fall"

And there goes your Calvinista programming kicking in to gear like a broken record.

God knows the end from the beginning, yes. But He does NOT create sin or evil. Ever. He is pure good and only does good.
In fact it is IMPOSSIBLE for God to be the slightest bit evil.

All of the wicked players back in Jesus day were exercising their OWN WILL, and it was indeed evil. And Holy God had no part in the wicked desires of their heart and evil machinations. However, God knowing all things and the end from the beginning and being outside of time has DEVASTATING advantage and CAN NEVER LOSE AN ENCOUNTER nor can He be thwarted, blamed, deceived, make a mistake, fail, or any other sin.

Jhn 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Decreeing something will be, is not the same thing as creating it.

If God did not decree the fall?
There would have been no fall.

God decreed everything that takes place in time to suite his purpose.

What will be, will be...

God's decree eliminated all the possible alternatives in what we find manifested in reality.

It's God's omniscience from which God distilled his decrees.

 

[Genez]

Grace is not power. That's a gnostic idea. God's power comes through the holy spirit

Why thank you, Mr. Soundbite.

You will use the same thing every time.
But, never showing why it is so...

 

[ocean]

I got the point across and its not intended to be a personal attack.

You have no idea. However, you made no point about your beliefs but did manage to falsely accuse a believer in Christ. So yes, you made your point about how you operate and think.

 

[cv5]

You don't read too swell, do you? First, Read Gen 3:15 and show me where Adam is in that verse.

Secondly, Adam is type of Christ by CONTRASTS! There's not one positive thing said about Adam in scripture -- unless of course you think someone being contrasted with Jesus is a good thing. Is that what you think?

Still trying to make a hero out of Adam, aren't you? I suppose in your universe it's not a big deal if someone dies in Adam instead of in the Last Adam, is it? I mean...why not die in Adam since you seem to think he was the paragon of virtue, righteousness and holiness?

And there you go again. Sounding off and as always 100% wrong 100% of the time.

Get a clue buddy.
Adam committed suicide to save his bride.
Christ committed suicide to save His Bride.

Adam sweat great drops of blood in the garden agonizing over his deliberate (NOT DECEIVED per 1 Tim 2:14) FREE WILL choice to be SEPARATED (aka ***die***) from his God in a calculated gambit to SAVE his bride the Woman, taking responsibility for her sin.

Which of course is why Adam is a type of Christ.
As is Abel, Abraham, Joseph, Moses, Aaron, David, Joshua, Elijah and many others.
All honored in a similar way, all honorable men.

This horrific nonsense of yours that Adam is the DIRECT OPPOSITE of Christ is abhorrent heresy, and NOT supported anywhere in the Bible. Adam is in fact an HEROIC figure in the Bible.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Why thank you, Mr. Soundbite.

You will use the same thing every time.
But, never showing why it is so...

OK I will

 

[Rufus]

History is not silent with regards to Calvin's beliefs. If a person is a Calvinist, they interpret scripture through the lens of Calvinism. The gospel does not depend on following Calvin.

Another patently false statement. The Gang of Grace Haters are just full of such inane straw men, are you?

It pleased God to show me early on in my Christian life the doctrines of grace in scripture. I become an advocate quite honestly! It wasn't until about 4 years after my conversion did I actually learn that others long before me saw the same things I did in scripture. The only difference between me and them is that they assigned specific labels to each doctrine, whereas I did not. But nevertheless, I surmised and concluded the same things they did with respect to the Gospel of Grace but without specific labels.