Would Christ Vote?

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posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#61
Jul 31, 2013
37,782
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#61
sawdust said:
What a stupid thing to say. How long did any of those demons last in the face of Christ?

Christ stood His ground and the demons fled.

James 4:7
Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.

Good men stand up against evil, they can't help but do it which, is why they are good men.
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voting for - i.e. proclaiming yourself to be aligned with - evil men is not equivalent to "standing up against evil"

it is actually standing alongside evil, professing yourself to be in agreement with evil, supporting and encouraging evil, and therefore doing evil.

when a person does what is in their power to give evil preimenence and power, what is actually "a stupid thing to say" is that they are doing good by doing so. how much worse to say someone is doing evil by refusing to give the evil one power!


woe to them who call evil good!
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#63
May 21, 2022
5,822
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#63
posthuman said:
voting for - i.e. proclaiming yourself to be aligned with - evil men is not equivalent to "standing up against evil"
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Yes, this is true.

I think there are two things which need to be separated out, the concept/theory of voting in general and the reality of voting in the present day totally corrupt system.

In the latter I do agree you have the solid argument.
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#65
Sep 2, 2020
13,951
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#65
Publican said:
Is not Christ our example?
Should we not follow that example?
Christ was unconcerned with the political system He lived under.
He had bigger fish to multiply.
Shouldn't we?
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Christ exists in a patriarchy a kingdom where the king speaks and no one votes . Voting is about the Will of the people both good and bad . Jesus wouldn’t vote he would have been preaching the gospel while we all argued about the candidates and would have warned us about our behavior and to repent and turn to God for our government

lol besides he already knew the outcome of the election
 
JTB

JTB

Well-known member
#66
Aug 31, 2021
2,251
722
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#66
HeIsHere said:
That really wasn't my point now was it.

I believe we should vote or be involved in some way to bring about change.

There would not be wolves in the hen house if people (including Christians) did what they are supposed to be doing over the past 100 hundreds years rather be duped my the "end times" fiasco.
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Just a reminder, the Bible says repeatedly that many of God's people will be duped in the end times into abandoning their faith.

But it appears I am the only one here trying to change that.
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
#68
Apr 21, 2021
8,264
3,598
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#68
sawdust said:
It's not compulsory in your country which is not the same as saying it is not required. How would you have a government if no-one voted? Voting is required if you want to exercise your right to have a representative government. No vote leads to dictatorship, not representation.
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That sounds good until you realize the whole thing is fixed. We need better third or fourth party options. A large percentage of people simply don't vote because neither of the two candidates has anything to offer.
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
#70
Apr 21, 2021
8,264
3,598
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#70
JTB said:
Just a reminder, the Bible says repeatedly that many of God's people will be duped in the end times into abandoning their faith.

But it appears I am the only one here trying to change that.
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You're not the only one. A few of us have been warning about it from the get-go.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#71
Jul 31, 2013
37,782
13,544
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#71
JTB said:
God also appointed Hitler, so I wouldn't bet on that being a good thing.
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true:
and it was while Nero was emperor that Paul wrote we should obey the earthly governments because they were appointed by God.
 
S

Slimsumo

Member
#72
Apr 2, 2024
60
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#72
posthuman said:
"render to Caeser what is Caesers"
and "for they sit in the sea of Moses"
is extraordinary.

He did not speak against the ruler at all, nor offer any comment on who should be ruler, nor speak al anything that could have been understood as against a ruler the people did not like, even a corrupt one. if anything He taught not to resist an unpopular and corrupt government.

instead He taught of much greater things than worldly politics, and said don't concentrate on things of the world, but on things of the next.
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I believe it to be true that Jesus and the Apostles were really not concerned with politics at all. Me and many other Christians are too concerned about them. We think we have bad governments with all the LGBT, abortion, surveillance, hate speech laws, legalized theft and so on. Which is true, we do have terrible people in charge, but so did the apostles, the roman emperors were extremely evil people. Despite this the apostles did not care to comment on politics atleast that we know of. They were busy winning souls and contending for the faith because they knew that whoever is ruling will always be wicked.

I still think its smart to hinder the evil that is coming on our nations. Not everything is written what the apostles did, but we know for sure that if they did say something political, it wasn't important enough to be in the Scriptures.
 
tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#73
Mar 13, 2014
42,569
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Tennessee
#73
JTB said:
God also appointed Hitler, so I wouldn't bet on that being a good thing.
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He did indeed appoint Hitler. Whether the appointment of Trump is perceived as a good thing or a bad thing remains to be seen.

Most of the kings appointed by God did evil in the eyes of the Lord. Of course, there were a few that did what was right in the eyes of the Lord.

The pages of history regarding the presidency of Trumps first term and the term to come are still incomplete and are in the process of still being written.

Only time will tell. My sense is the time is running out for the leaders on the world's stage.

The story could be a good read. Or bad.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#74
May 21, 2022
5,822
2,267
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#74
JTB said:
Just a reminder, the Bible says repeatedly that many of God's people will be duped in the end times into abandoning their faith.

But it appears I am the only one here trying to change that.
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I am quite sure that when Jesus was speaking about the end of the age it was the end of the sacrifices and OT covenant not 2000+ years into the future and Tim Lahaye's fiction books.


Now once at the consummation (sunteleia) of the ages he has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. (Hebrews 9:26)
 
foolishone

foolishone

Junior Member
#77
Aug 13, 2017
92
61
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#77
tourist said:
Maybe Jesus wears a MAGA hat? The fact is God appointed Trump to be the 45th president and the 47th president.
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And he appointed Biden and Obama and Bush, and Clinton. Bibi and all those before him. Every empire and kingdom that ever existed or will exist. They all are there for God's purposes. They all play a part towards Messiah's return. All things work together for good to those that love God. Even the bad, God works to His purposes. As Joseph said, " As for you, you meant evil against me, butGod meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today. "
 
foolishone

foolishone

Junior Member
#78
Aug 13, 2017
92
61
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#78
HeIsHere said:
God appointed Hitler?
Not likely.
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Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.
Daniel 2:21
"God controls the course of world events; he removes kings and sets up other kings".
“The Most High is sovereign over the kingdoms of men and gives them to anyone He wishes” (Daniel 4:32).
 
foolishone

foolishone

Junior Member
#79
Aug 13, 2017
92
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#79
GWH said:
Jesus and Paul sought to convert "voters" to supporting God's values.
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ummm? it was not a democracy then. It was kingdoms and empires. They were pointing people to the only true God. To recieve His gift of eternal life. Some kingdoms and empires allowed their faith and others did not. The ones that did not persecuted them as Yeshua warned they would. Paul said we do not fight against this wor;d of flesh and blood but the spiritual world. The apostles obeyed the rules of man except where it was against God commands.
They were sent to preach the gospel. The good news. When persecuted they never fought with any weapon except the Word of God. They suffered persecution unto death.
Convert to being born of the Spirit. Faith in Christ is not legislated. Catholics tried that and so did protestants in all the religious wars.
We obey authorities except when they try to force us to sin. Same as Daniel did and the early christians. I obey Gods morals values inspite of governments. We share the gospel and the more people that CONVERT which means change, repent from their ways of sin to God's ways and have Him rule over their personl lives the more you should see societal behaviors change to God's ways. But we know this will not be fully realized until the Messiah comes and sets up His kindom on earth. Not democracy but Kingdom.
Yeshua came to change lives not kingdoms. We have to wait a little longer for the His kingdom reign.
 
foolishone

foolishone

Junior Member
#80
Aug 13, 2017
92
61
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#80
HeIsHere said:
While I understand your point, He was concerned deeply and we should be as well.
He wept over Jerusalem.
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He wept over Jerusalem because it was going to be destroyed BECAUSE they never knew the time of their visitation. The destruction was because they rejected Him. He was not involved in the Roman empire, and he pointed out the hypocrisy of the religious leaders who were not obeying God themselves. His bottom line. I AM THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE, period. He did not say vote for the Sadducees or the Pharisees.
In todays world, in the west, there is a new experiment called democracy. You may vote or not vote. All are human systems. Not God's. Ye must be born again and allow the Holy Spirit to live in your life, your words your actions reflecting Yeshua's image. All political systems in America have some good points and bad points. Hopefully they can work together on the points they agree on. But we know things get worse not better in the powers of the earth. The question is what does your personal life reflect.
As John wrapped up revelations he said, " The one being unrighteous, let him be unrighteous still; and he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; and he who is righteous, let him practice righteousness still; and he who is holy, let him be holy still."
Until the times of the Lord return that is the way. Live Christ out in your life inspite of the world politics. Obey the great commission.
 
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