Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
6,339
2,465
113
I always enjoy when people don't answer my question and then tell me I don't know something. Blessings.
How about you answer the question so we know what you are driving at?

This has come up several times so you must be trying to point out a weakness in a position.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,080
6,883
113
62
You don't even understand what it is you were attempting to respond to.
Let's see...
I ask about love, you answer about grace.
I ask about people who don't know God, you give examples of someone who does.

And this means I don't understand? At any rate, thanks for sharing. Grace and peace.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
3,448
539
113
I understand your point, but love doe not give consideration to merit, a mother should love her child unconditionally.

God does not give unmerited favor! Believers can die the sin onto death, and have.
Grace must become manifested in a believer by revealing righteousness before favor can be granted.

For example?
Blessing a man who keeps committing adultery is unmerited favor!
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
3,505
468
83
So God does have a permissive will? :coffee:
No. Not in the Calvinist definition of permissive and decretive wills.

He has a will with which He sometimes desires to permit and sometimes desires to prevent and sometimes desires to predict. He does not have a separate permissive will running sometimes contrary to an unchanging decretive will, as Calvinists model His wills. He has the ability and freedom to will a variety of things and prioritises them according to the circumstances that pertain at any time. He can change His will to something more appropriate than His present will according to changing circumstances. There is no such thing as an unchangeable decretive will, even though sometimes His decrees does not change.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
6,339
2,465
113
God does not give unmerited favor! Believers can die the sin onto death, and have.
Grace must become manifested in a believer by revealing righteousness before favor can be granted.

For example?
Blessing a man who keeps committing adultery is unmerited favor!
Well this is definitely something for me to think on. The last line makes sense to me.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
3,448
539
113
The GWTJ happens after the 1,000-year Millennium. There will be lots of teaching in the Millennium.
The 1000 year Millennium is the last weeding out of those who will refuse to believe, even refuse in a perfect environment with perfect teaching..... to prove the point that the excuses now given for not believing do not hold water.
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
3,505
468
83
Did Jesus qualify his statement in Mk 10:18? And besides...if any of the "apples" are partially good, then why couldn't we use the same rationale for God who alone is good? After all, you think Jesus was making a comparison between God and mankind; but in reality he was making a stark contrast! What you're trying to do is violate the Law of the Excluded Middle. There is no third option between good and evil in scripture.
I have explained this several times in this thread. But you are too calcified in your opinions to grasp it.

If someone tries to sell you an apple, telling you it is good, but you see some bruises on it, you will say, "No, it's not good. It is damaged." If there is only one perfectly good apple in the shop, You could say "There is only one apple that is good: that one." But you would not say that all the other apples, though not good, are totally worthless and rotten; and nothing good can be achieved with them.

Exactly the same logic applies to Jesus' words. But you refuse to acknowledge it, because your doctrine is more important to you than the truth. There is none Good but God only: perfectly good. But the "bad" are not totally evil. There is some good in them.

Hence, Jesus' words, "If you who are evil know how to give good things to your children, how much more will God give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him."

If you cannot grasp that and honestly acknowledge it, you are truly self-deceived.
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
3,505
468
83
I have heard it said with some regularity on this site that God loves all people. It's a wonderful sentiment. And yet, there have been very large numbers of people who were born, lived, and died and never heard the gospel, heard the name Jesus, or was familiar with the One true God. Can someone tell me how God loved them?
This is how we can know God lives them, that while they were sinners Christ died for them.

Romans 5:8-9 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Are you saying you don't believe God's proof?
 

MerSee

Active member
Jan 13, 2024
796
119
43
This is how we can know God lives them, that while they were sinners Christ died for them.

Romans 5:8-9 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Are you saying you don't believe God's proof?
Jesus died on the cross for the just/elect/saved whose names are written in The book of life.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
3,059
415
83
[QUOTE="HeIsHere, post: 5325351, member: 316104"]I know, I know, God has His "elect" so they are the ones who get to hear the Gospel even if God has to come down from heaven!! ;):)

Where is that easy button when you need it?
Found it.

[/QUOTE]

Have you learned so little from the Exodus of God's elect from Egypt? Didn't he come down to rescue his people through his servant Moses (Ex 3:8)? Well then...Has not God come down again in the person of his Suffering Servant to rescue all the sheep he has given to his Servant (Jn 14:8-10? And even though Christ has now ascended to the right hand of the Father, hasn't he sent the Comforter into this world to apply God's salvation to the souls of those sheep and to live within them?

These things are very easy to understand to those who have been given eyes to see and ears to hear. Perhaps you should spend less time caressing that "easy button" of yours and considerably more time in prayerful consideration of the Word of God. After all, it is God who gives the gift of understanding (Lk 21:14-15; 24:45; Col 1:9; Prov 2, Ps 119:34 etc).
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
3,059
415
83
This is how we can know God lives them, that while they were sinners Christ died for them.

Romans 5:8-9 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Are you saying you don't believe God's proof?
And who are the "us" that USED to be sinners?
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
3,059
415
83
Why not?

God has sent people and people have made there way to everyone since the Ascension.

Even the Bible itself was preached by Paul to the KNOWN world of that day. So we have been accomplishing that. People are just rejecting more than people who accept the Gospel.
And that "known world" was merely the Roman Empire. Today, there are still large areas of the world openly hostile toward Christ, his disciples and his gospel. The Mideast, China, India many parts of Muslim Africa, etc. And even here in the West governments are hostile towards Christ and his gospel.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
3,059
415
83
Unmerited favor is what a mother gives to a young child....

It all depends how much one is willing to mature and grow up in Christ, that determines where one's understanding will hunker down and lock onto .. refusing to be corrected.
Why would a young child not merit his own mother's favor? Did the child tick his mother off when he was born? What would the child have to do to merit it?