Mike Winger's "Why I think Calvinism is Unbiblical"

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Cameron143 said:
Nope. It shows the response of the natural man apart from God...a natural response. A supernatural response would have needed a supernatural work.
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You can't hear without God opening your ears to hear and they shut them after God opened their ears to hear. So they rejected God directly. That's not the natural man but a man that God had opened their ears to hear and they chose to reject God on purpose.
 
Cameron143 said:
He's also doing the converting.
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But NOT BEFORE THE HEARING! Afterwards. After the offer of marriage is made.

After the cup of betrothal/bread/cup of the new covenant is offered.
All of which can be refused. And are refused the world over day in and day out.

Luk 22:17
Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, “Take this and divide it among yourselves;
Luk 22:19
And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”
Luk 22:20
Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.
 
cv5 said:
So it was pre-circumcised/chosen before birth, now its long term preparation and self-effort and pre-plowing the soil?

Tell that to the thief on the cross or Zacchaeus. Both career criminals.
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Again, more false characterization.
And again, you don't understand the condition of the natural man. His thoughts will only change after his heart is changed. The heart is driving the thoughts and actions...out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. No change in heart, no change in thoughts or actions.
 
cv5 said:
But NOT BEFORE THE HEARING! Afterwards. After the offer of marriage is made.

After the cup of betrothal/bread/cup of the new covenant is offered.
All of which can be refused. And are refused the world over day in and day out.

Luk 22:17
Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, “Take this and divide it among yourselves;
Luk 22:19
And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”
Luk 22:20
Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.
Click to expand...
Again, you don't understand the condition of fallen man.
 
FollowerofShiloh said:
You can't hear without God opening your ears to hear and they shut them after God opened their ears to hear. So they rejected God directly. That's not the natural man but a man that God had opened their ears to hear and they chose to reject God on purpose.
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Nope. Their response was driven by the condition of their hearts. Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. Their responses reflect the condition of their hearts.
 
The ancient Jews followed the Law for 3,000 years and were still only "Natural Men" until Jesus died. But as natural men, they still chose to follow and serve God and never were filled with the Holy Spirit. So even though the nature of natural man is not to seek God, we have 4,000 years of history that shows NATURAL MAN could be trained to be followers of God without God living inside them and controlling them.

So it's quite obvious the doctrinal excuse about Natural man is from the DEVIL because we have an entire Bible where Natural Man lived for God before the Holy Spirit ever lived inside of them.
 
Cameron143 said:
Nope. Their response was driven by the condition of their hearts. Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. Their responses reflect the condition of their hearts.
Click to expand...
The ancient Jews followed the Law for 3,000 years and were still only "Natural Men" until Jesus died. But as natural men, they still chose to follow and serve God and never were filled with the Holy Spirit. So even though the nature of natural man is not to seek God, we have 4,000 years of history that shows NATURAL MAN could be trained to be followers of God without God living inside them and controlling them.

So it's quite obvious the doctrinal excuse about Natural man is from the DEVIL because we have an entire Bible where Natural Man lived for God before the Holy Spirit ever lived inside of them.
 
FollowerofShiloh said:
The ancient Jews followed the Law for 3,000 years and were still only "Natural Men" until Jesus died. But as natural men, they still chose to follow and serve God and never were filled with the Holy Spirit. So even though the nature of natural man is not to seek God, we have 4,000 years of history that shows NATURAL MAN could be trained to be followers of God without God living inside them and controlling them.

So it's quite obvious the doctrinal excuse about Natural man is from the DEVIL because we have an entire Bible where Natural Man lived for God before the Holy Spirit ever lived inside of them.
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This is false. Every saved person has always had the indwelling presence of God or they couldn't belong to Christ...Romans 8:9.
 
Cameron143 said:
This is false. Every saved person has always had the indwelling presence of God or they could belong to Christ...Romans 8:9.
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SHOW ME because they followed the LAW and the LAW does not coincide with the Spirit of Grace!

You can't show me because you only have a false doctrine and not the TRUTH of God!
 
Cameron143 said:
His thoughts will only change after his heart is changed. The heart is driving the thoughts and actions...out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. No change in heart, no change in thoughts or actions.
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Correct. And a heart that chooses to harden when God calls suffers the judgement thereof.
Yes, men SHOULD repent. But men REFUSE to repent.

1Sa 6:6
“Why then do you harden your hearts as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? When He did mighty things among them, did they not let the people go, that they might depart?

Luk 10:13
“Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes.
 
FollowerofShiloh said:
SHOW ME because they followed the LAW and the LAW does not coincide with the Spirit of Grace!

You can't show me because you only have a false doctrine and not the TRUTH of God!
Click to expand...
Read Romans 8:9. It didn't become true in the NT. It's always been true; simply revealed in the NT.
 
cv5 said:
According to you......NOBODY can refuse God's shotgun wedding proposal.
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Nope...wrong again. No one with a changed heart wants to. Did you want to choose God before you were saved? What changed to prompt that?
 
cv5 said:
Correct. And a heart that chooses to harden when God calls suffers the judgement thereof.
Yes, men SHOULD repent. But men REFUSE to repent.

1Sa 6:6
“Why then do you harden your hearts as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? When He did mighty things among them, did they not let the people go, that they might depart?

Luk 10:13
“Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes.
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The heart of the natural man can respond in many ways. But all those ways will be in opposition to God.
 
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