Election teaches that salvation comes from the Lord.

[Burn1986]

Straighten me out, then!

Instead of simply telling me I'm wrong?

Tell me what is right! Give it!
I can only guess what you believe.
Whatever you might have said in this thread pertaining to what you think elect means?
I missed it...

Put your cards on the table.

I don’t know. There’s a lot I don’t know about God and the Bible, but I can recognize when a person only talks about one mindset and everything is filtered through that. Okay, so it’s great to know what elect and predestination means. There’s obviously some revelation there, but there’s a problem when you keep trying to push it above everything else. You have no other revelations or anything other than elect and predestination?
If I keep trying to hammer people about a Biblical topic and it’s all I can talk about, then there’s a problem.
What was your salvation experience? What about Christian experiences after salvation? Baptism of the Holy Spirit? Etc?

 

[rogerg]

We know Paul was talking about the Old Testament Saints here in Romans 8:29-30.

The idea you're promoting has been debunked literally hundreds of years ago and thousands by the Church Fathers before modern Theologians began teaching it in Biblical Seminary and Universities.

No. Paul was speaking to all of the elect, and to those in Rome in particular. Salvation is the same regardless of timeframe.

 

[rogerg]

Was Moses chosen onto salvation? Yes.

Was Moses chosen for being the Bride of Christ when God had chosen Moses to be saved? No.

We have been chosen IN Him. But, not Moses.

For Moses was chosen for the dispensation and purpose God had for the age of Israel.

Too many are confused over what "chosen" means.



Yes! God chose us to have the same body as the Lord's glorious body!

Justified! To do so His work on the Cross was our justification, and God's justification for being free to save us.

The Resurrection will be us seeing the manifestation of the glorification God chose us for before the foundation of the world!

Please think... this is not a dogma fist fight.

Those verses speak of salvation. Everyone who becomes saved, becomes so in the same why - by/through Christ - He is alone
is the Saviour. You attempt to break into independent individual pieces that which should be taken as a whole.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

No. Paul was speaking to all of the elect, and to those in Rome in particular. Salvation is the same regardless of timeframe.

I already showed the usage of the language structure Paul used that both Church Fathers and Theologians point out to show who Paul is talking about.

The proof that you are not educated to know the Greek structure proves why you continue to get it wrong.

 

[rogerg]

I already showed the usage of the language structure Paul used that both Church Fathers and Theologians point out to show who Paul is talking about.

The proof that you are not educated to know the Greek structure proves why you continue to get it wrong.

How can you show that which you don't understand? The only thing you managed to show is that you do not understand the fundamental tenets of salvation.

 

[DJT_47]

Ephesians 1:3-13.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.


Paul makes it pretty clear in verse 4 that God chose. even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world,

He predestined His chosen, verse 5. he predestined us for adoption

He gave in verse 6. to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.

He forgave verse 7. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses,

He lavished grace verses 7-8. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight

He made His will known in verse 9. making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ

He purposed verse 9. according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ

He included verse 13. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

He marked us and sealed us with the Holy Spirit. verse 13. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,


And what is of the utmost important is, that these are all done in Christ. Which is why we must be regenerated first and placed in Christ by God before we can believe or receive any of this.

Then the whole process of salvation, which is quite clear, doesn't apply at all to the "chosen", correct? So, if you were "chosen", you don't have to believe, confess, repent of your sins, and be baptized, right? That makes no sense! And there is only one way you become "in Christ" according to the bible, and that is by being baptized into Christ.

And you're forgetting, or maybe not understanding one important factor regarding to being "chosen" before the world began, and that is God's foreknowledge. Because he knew in advance those that would ultimately become his, he then logically, likewise, chose them.

 

[rogerg]

Because he knew in advance those that would ultimately become his, he then logically, likewise, chose them.

That would be what not who.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Then the whole process of salvation, which is quite clear, doesn't apply at all to the "chosen", correct? So, if you were "chosen", you don't have to believe, confess, repent of your sins, and be baptized, right? That makes no sense! And there is only one way you become "in Christ" according to the bible, and that is by being baptized into Christ.

And you're forgetting, or maybe not understanding one important factor regarding to being "chosen" before the world began, and that is God's foreknowledge. Because he knew in advance those that would ultimately become his, he then logically, likewise, chose them.

The term “Foreknowledge” is the key

“Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Burn1986]

Straighten me out, then!

Instead of simply telling me I'm wrong?

Tell me what is right! Give it!
I can only guess what you believe.
Whatever you might have said in this thread pertaining to what you think elect means?
I missed it...

Put your cards on the table.

You know what man, if you really feel the desire to talk about the elect predestined thing strongly then go for it. Don’t listen to me. Yes, I could be wrong. I certainly don’t know everything. You have to go with what you feel is the right thing. Peace 👍

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You know what man, if you really feel the desire to talk about the elect predestined thing strongly then go for it. Don’t listen to me. Yes, I could be wrong. I certainly don’t know everything. You have to go with what you feel is the right thing. Peace 👍

We’ll dont worry though brother either youre “elect or your not “ so anything you do or say right or wrong won’t matter anyways we’ll all find out on the bye and by 😁

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

How can you show that which you don't understand? The only thing you managed to show is that you do not understand the fundamental tenets of salvation.

I did show it to you and it's obvious you lack the understanding.

 

[Burn1986]

We’ll dont worry though brother either youre “elect or your not “ so anything you do or say right or wrong won’t matter anyways we’ll all find out on the bye and by 😁

Haha right 😊

 

[Genez]

Those verses speak of salvation. Everyone who becomes saved, becomes so in the same why - by/through Christ - He is alone
is the Saviour. You attempt to break into independent individual pieces that which should be taken as a whole.

Before the church age began OT Jews became saved by believing in the Lord God of Israel, "Adonoy Eloheinu" who later was to deny himself his right to be as God, and made Himself to become the man Jesus to die in our place on the Cross. Later to be glorified as he returned to being as God.


Who, being eternally existing in the very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!


Philippians 2:6-8

 

[Genez]

You know what man, if you really feel the desire to talk about the elect predestined thing strongly then go for it. Don’t listen to me. Yes, I could be wrong. I certainly don’t know everything. You have to go with what you feel is the right thing. Peace 👍

I am not going by "feeling." That would be subjective thinking.

The only thing you lack is being taught many truths that will eventually mature you into being able to think with the Word objectively.
But, when you ask for someone to prove themself in a post or two? What would require you get down to some serious Bible study, being shown and taught by a mature competent teacher (not myself - not my gift) What could require weeks of learning.

That is the problem when you demand instant enlightenment. Jesus disciples were taught daily for three years and even they did not know enough until later on....

You got to really want it.

 

[Burn1986]

I am not going by "feeling." That would be subjective thinking.

The only thing you lack is being taught many truths that will eventually mature you into being able to think with the Word objectively.
But, when you ask for someone to prove themself in a post or two? What would require you get down to some serious Bible study, being shown and taught by a mature competent teacher (not myself - not my gift) What could require weeks of learning.

That is the problem when you demand instant enlightenment. Jesus disciples were taught daily for three years and even they did not know enough until later on....

You got to really want it.

Like Nicodemus right? He was a teacher of Israel and yet could not understand Jesus. Jesus also said to the Pharisees “You search the scriptures thinking that through them you have eternal life, yet the scriptures point to Me…” They memorized the Torah and had scriptures on themselves yet they didn’t know God when He was standing right in front of them. The main argument against the disciples was that they were “unlearned, unread, and untrained” yet they turned the workd upside down because if their experience and relationship with Jesus. I appreciate your words, but I feel that I can gain more by fasting and praying and spending time with Jesus. It’s amazing the depth of understanding that comes from fasting, and failing at fasting.

 

[rogerg]

Before the church age began OT Jews became saved by believing in the Lord God of Israel, "Adonoy Eloheinu" who later was to deny himself his right to be as God, and made Himself to become the man Jesus to die in our place on the Cross. Later to be glorified as he returned to being as God.


Who, being eternally existing in the very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!


Philippians 2:6-8

No one becomes saved by anything they may or may not do. We become saved only because God had chosen us unto salvation
from before the foundation of the world. At a time of His choosing, He grants it to us. It is, and has always been, a completely free gift from God by His exceeding mercy and grace through Jesus Christ. To those to whom it has been bequeathed, no prerequisites nor conditions are attached to it. Salvation, from the first person saved unto the last person to be saved, become so in that manner. Any attributes, such as a belief in Christ, or a change in perspective of things spiritual, come as a byproduct and result of salvation - they neither lead to nor bring salvation - and that is what makes it by grace and not by works.
Jesus Christ alone is the Saviour, man is not.

[1Co 2:14 KJV] 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

[Rom 3:11-12 KJV]
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

 

[Genez]

Like Nicodemus right? He was a teacher of Israel and yet could not understand Jesus. Jesus also said to the Pharisees “You search the scriptures thinking that through them you have eternal life, yet the scriptures point to Me…” They memorized the Torah and had scriptures on themselves yet they didn’t know God when He was standing right in front of them. The main argument against the disciples was that they were “unlearned, unread, and untrained” yet they turned the workd upside down because if their experience and relationship with Jesus. I appreciate your words, but I feel that I can gain more by fasting and praying and spending time with Jesus. It’s amazing the depth of understanding that comes from fasting, and failing at fasting.

Jesus spoke about what you mistakenly think is for today.
Jesus said those things at a time when no one had become a new creation in Christ!

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ he is a new creation: ​

The old has gone, the new has come!" 2 Corinthians 5:17​

Now we have become a new spiritual species. One that we are to have understanding of the Word for our food!

​

And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more ​

in knowledge and depth of insight.." Philippians 1:9​

​

​

​

grace and peace! ....

 

[Genez]

No one becomes saved by anything they may or may not do. We become saved only because God had chosen us unto salvation.

What God has chosen for? Chosen for us what is to be included in our salvation.

For example: OT saints were waiting for a Messiah who will rule over them forever.

In contrast to to what they were chosen for?...

NT saints are awaiting the return of the Messiah, so we can rule with Him!

To the one who overcomes, I will grant the right to sit with Me on My throne, ​

just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. Revelation 3:21​

Big difference in what God has sovereignly chosen us for!
God does not choose to save us. He saves whomever He knows will believe.

What he chose us for is what is to be in store for us whom He knows will believe!

OT believers were not waiting for a Messiah whom they would reign with!
Christians who mature will be reigning over OT believers!
God did not choose OT believers to reign with Him in His Kingdom.

 

[fredoheaven]

Saved people were chosen for service. God bless

 

[Genez]

Saved people were chosen for service. God bless

Saved people were not chosen for just one thing.
But no matter what they were given gifts for?
All must serve the Lord with their gift(s).

​

“For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, ​

which God prepared in advance for us to do.” Ephesians 2:10​

​

........