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I'm missing your point here...
I'm not aware what point you're made in others posts.
I'm asking you if you believe all life is in the book of life unless removed ..
I have known this a long time but it's not my wisdom it's his.
I believe it.
In asking you if you believe it.
I'm wanting to discuss and I don't know what you believe.
So if you can answer we can move on
I'm not aware what point you're made in others posts.
I'm asking you if you believe all life is in the book of life unless removed ..
I have known this a long time but it's not my wisdom it's his.
I believe it.
In asking you if you believe it.
I'm wanting to discuss and I don't know what you believe.
So if you can answer we can move on
Perhaps repentance is required in your formula, as I have heard it is part and parcel of belief, as though they were two sides of the same coin. And also confession, which many characterize as though listing a litany of sins, whereas I characterize it as agreeing with God concerning my condition before Him. Again perhaps a distinction not made by some.
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that's lovely
for some reason, I am very uncomfortable with agreeing with a doctrine that is not found in scripture
that is what this op is about....questionning the very odd notion that there are 2 types of Christian. again, it was worded in such a way as to simply engender engagement and plenty of room for dialogue
as I am sure you know, threads are often started because of something someone came across or discussed/debated in another thread, so please, let's not all get holier than though now
I don't believe you are the curator of anyone's thoughts or heart. we all have enough just looking after our own business I would think....you are also aware I am not in alignment with much of your presentations but I don't go out of my way to act religious about that
for some reason, I am very uncomfortable with agreeing with a doctrine that is not found in scripture
that is what this op is about....questionning the very odd notion that there are 2 types of Christian. again, it was worded in such a way as to simply engender engagement and plenty of room for dialogue
as I am sure you know, threads are often started because of something someone came across or discussed/debated in another thread, so please, let's not all get holier than though now
I don't believe you are the curator of anyone's thoughts or heart. we all have enough just looking after our own business I would think....you are also aware I am not in alignment with much of your presentations but I don't go out of my way to act religious about that
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This is the actual op. I don't know why some had to speak up and say
'It's me. I'm the problem; it's me.'
(I am not really a fan of la Swift, but with her popularity, you sometimes hear a song somewhere without going out of your way and I am a fan of humor, so there yah go)
and yah, that's about it.
I have come across an idea lately within this forum, that some believe that there are 2 classes of Christian. They believe that there is a class called 'the elect', who have no choice but to be saved because God has decided they will be saved no matter what and the 2nd class being those who are not elect but are still able to be saved through choosing Christ.
This is different from Calvinism as Calvinism believes God decides, or has decided, who will be saved and who will never be saved.
It is also not Arminianism because choice is given, according to this belief, to everyone.
While people will continue to debate reformed vs non-reformed, this 2 tier believer system is not available as a 3rd option that I have found nor anyone else or anywhere for that matter. I have searched different teachers/teachings, various articles and so on and the conclusions of people more knowledgeable than anyone in this forum, is that it does not exist.
Just interested in what others might have to say. I have no idea whether or not the person(s) presenting this idea will defend what they believe or not.
For clairity's sake, I am neither reformed or non-reformed. I tend to think that no one can come up with exactly what the Bible has in mind when it states 'from the foundation of the world'. I do not agree with the approach of Calvinism to settle it and I do not appreciate the Arminiam viewpoint either because of problems it presents.
Not to start another debate about reformed/vs non, we have a library of those already, but to take a look at the elect who have no choice in being saved and the rest of humanity who can choose whether or not to accept Christ.
That's about it.
'It's me. I'm the problem; it's me.'
(I am not really a fan of la Swift, but with her popularity, you sometimes hear a song somewhere without going out of your way and I am a fan of humor, so there yah go)
and yah, that's about it.
I have come across an idea lately within this forum, that some believe that there are 2 classes of Christian. They believe that there is a class called 'the elect', who have no choice but to be saved because God has decided they will be saved no matter what and the 2nd class being those who are not elect but are still able to be saved through choosing Christ.
This is different from Calvinism as Calvinism believes God decides, or has decided, who will be saved and who will never be saved.
It is also not Arminianism because choice is given, according to this belief, to everyone.
While people will continue to debate reformed vs non-reformed, this 2 tier believer system is not available as a 3rd option that I have found nor anyone else or anywhere for that matter. I have searched different teachers/teachings, various articles and so on and the conclusions of people more knowledgeable than anyone in this forum, is that it does not exist.
Just interested in what others might have to say. I have no idea whether or not the person(s) presenting this idea will defend what they believe or not.
For clairity's sake, I am neither reformed or non-reformed. I tend to think that no one can come up with exactly what the Bible has in mind when it states 'from the foundation of the world'. I do not agree with the approach of Calvinism to settle it and I do not appreciate the Arminiam viewpoint either because of problems it presents.
Not to start another debate about reformed/vs non, we have a library of those already, but to take a look at the elect who have no choice in being saved and the rest of humanity who can choose whether or not to accept Christ.
That's about it.
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Well... Go get em, big shot!
Let's see what you have to offer the one who you allege needs it, instead of criticizing those dealing with it according to the Word.
You have helped any?
Or, do you wish for us to stop analyzing what we are dealing with?
Aiding and abetting seems to be the slot you enjoy finding yourself.
Peter did the same thing. Jesus ended up calling him "Satan."
You and the one lady here would have taken Peter aside and told him he was being misunderstood...
And, comfort Peter, telling him he was being noble in his intentions towards the Lord.
Your "good feelings" must be denied if the Word contradicts what you 'good feelings' would have you do to receive the approval of men....
Its a learning process that will be highly resented by some, but accepted by those who are willing to lose their life
so they can find the new life God will supply in the Spirit..
Peter was crushed and humiliated when Jesus called him 'Satan'.
But his love for the Lord allowed for him to adjust and walk in a new light.
Others when tested the same way will resent and refuse, and follow Him no more.
They then then seek and follow a different Jesus to their own liking.
grace and peace ...............
Let's see what you have to offer the one who you allege needs it, instead of criticizing those dealing with it according to the Word.
You have helped any?
Or, do you wish for us to stop analyzing what we are dealing with?
Aiding and abetting seems to be the slot you enjoy finding yourself.
Peter did the same thing. Jesus ended up calling him "Satan."
From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem
and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of
the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.
Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him.
“Never, Lord!” he said. “This shall never happen to you!”
Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me;
you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”
Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves
and take up their cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save their life will lose it,
but whoever loses their life for me will find it." Matthew 16:21-25
You and the one lady here would have taken Peter aside and told him he was being misunderstood...
And, comfort Peter, telling him he was being noble in his intentions towards the Lord.
Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves
and take up their cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save their life will lose it,
but whoever loses their life for me will find it." Matthew 16:24-25
Your "good feelings" must be denied if the Word contradicts what you 'good feelings' would have you do to receive the approval of men....
Its a learning process that will be highly resented by some, but accepted by those who are willing to lose their life
so they can find the new life God will supply in the Spirit..
Peter was crushed and humiliated when Jesus called him 'Satan'.
But his love for the Lord allowed for him to adjust and walk in a new light.
Others when tested the same way will resent and refuse, and follow Him no more.
They then then seek and follow a different Jesus to their own liking.
2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine.
Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number
of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."
grace and peace ...............
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I am only disagreeing because that was not my experience... in fact I experienced confession = agreeing with God concerning my condition before Him, long before I repented and came to believe. Some have told me I was saved then, but I find that nigh impossible to believe, since I was devoid of faith at that time.
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