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Niki7
Guest
I addressed that. More than once. you are churning that milk of the word so hard that you are making butter
Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
- Thread starter MerSee
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I addressed that. More than once. you are churning that milk of the word so hard that you are making butter
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Niki7
Guest
I seldom answer folks who cannot be bothered to post what the actual verse(s) are saying...you will note in my posts that it would be very rare for me to not post the verse(s) rather than just the reference
Further, I also entail why the verses are in the post.....I address meaning etc
Maybe you should be courteous and do the same. There is a certain arrogance in the way you responded to me. Who taught you to address people that way and believers in particular?
As it is, I cannot understand, not because I am ignorant of the scripture you posted, why you would think there is any bearing on what I posted? If anyone here has posted about our guilt and Jesus taking our place, that person would be me....although I am certainly not alone.
Before they were born, Jacob and Esau were identified as two different nations.
I thought election was in view.
Also,it seemed to devolve into whether Paul's writings were actually God-breathed or his own opinion.
Many things come into view as any particular topic is being discussed, but at the time that I responded, what was said of Jacob and Esau before they were born had been brought up, and that is what I addressed. In fact, Jacob and Esau are often brought up while election is being discussed, so I'm not sure exactly what your objection is, or why you are objecting at all.
I believe @FollowerofShiloh didn't realize that God espoused his love and hatred before birth. He gave a reason that God hated Esau because Esau despised his birthright. I pointed out that God said He hated him before he was born.
From there it devolved into a discussion of whether Paul's writing was merely his opinion or the word of God.
Actually, I pointed out what Esau did. And I also pointed out that Malachi never said what Paul did. And I pointed out that Paul said it based upon his explanation of Election.
Since Paul is the only one who mentioned before birth, which the Prophets never did, I suggested that Paul is using it for his reasoning in the explanation of Election. Since it does not align with what the Prophets said about Jacob/Esau, I suggested that was Paul's opinion.
So I am aware... none of that changes the fact that the twins were identified as two different nations. One of those nations is representative of God's chosen people; the other nation is God's enemies.
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And who are the "us" in Rom 5:8? If you say the elect, then in eternity God viewed "us" as being in Christ, and since in Christ then were as justified by divine decree. Of course, in time and space, God sent his Son to die for ungodly sinners who are his enemies because that is how we enter into this world being in Adam. It was in time and space at the Cross of Christ that God actually demonstrated his eternal love for his chosen ones. In other words, God in Christ, walked [in temporal reality] his [eternal] talk.
And did all of that not come to past in temporal reality by God's eternal decree?
Because what he said about Jacob/Esau "does not align" with what God instructed the Prophets to say about the matter.
And Scripture must "ALWAYS FLOW" in harmony.
And if you can't be bothered to get your bible and look up the passages, should I feel guilty for what you choose to not do?
And you should be the last one here to talk about someone else's arrogance or discourteousness (real or perceived!). Remove the beam from your own eye before pointing to any speck in mine.
And it does! The prophets did not talk about Jacob and Esau in the CONTEXT in election. They spoke of the twins from a horizontal/eartly perspective; whereas Paul spoke of them from a vertical/eternal perspective.
You don't know anything!
YES they did talk about Election!
2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say: 'Wherein hast Thou loved us?' Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD; yet I loved Jacob;
Verse 2 shows us ELECTION that God made between Jacob and Esau!
I am tired of you saying things you know nothing about!
And I replied by saying that this logic is flawed for 2 reasons:
1. God gives fuller understanding over time throughout history. So one should expect later writings in scripture to inform earlier writings.
2. All scripture is given by inspiration of God. Whether or not a writer believed he was giving his own opinion, the fact that it is in scripture means it is the word of God and is as authoritative as if Jesus Himself had said it.
The elect are never referred to as sinners but as saints. They were saints in eternity and sinners in time. But it was in eternity that God loved his elect. He didn't just decided to love them in space and time when they were still sinners. Furthermore, your understanding of the passage would contradict more than a few passages that speak of God's hate toward sinners.