Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[rogerg]

But it's the people in this world that will live in the coming one. So He died for the people of this current world.

No, He died only for those who will inhabit the world to come, not everyone. Had He not died for them, then there wouldn't
be a world to come.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

No, we shouldn't. Bible first, scholars second. Compare the scholars to the Bible, not the Bible to the scholars. They
may provide good ancillary help, but the main source, the only true spiritual authority, is the Bible.

I agree. I was using them to see what they said is all.

 

[rogerg]

I agree. I was using them to see what they said is all.

Bed time. TTYL.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Bed time. TTYL.

Good Night Brother!

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Using the Greek translation

The word kosmos refers to the universe or the whole of creation.

kosmos is the word the Apostle John used in 1 John 2:2

2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world = kosmos or the universe or the whole of creation

So John is saying not just the saved, but Jesus died for EVERYONE!

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Using the Greek translation

The word kosmos refers to the universe or the whole of creation.

kosmos is the word the Apostle John used in 1 John 2:2

2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world = kosmos or the universe or the whole of creation

So John is saying not just the saved, but Jesus died for EVERYONE!

kósmos
κόσμος = kosmos or the universe or the whole of creation

That's ALL people, not just the saved. John, the Apostle is saying Jesus died for every human being that "ever" lived.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.
και
and

αυτος
he

ιλασμος
-

εστιν
he is

περι
about

των
of the

αμαρτιων
of errors

ημων
of us

ου
not

περι
about

των
of the

ημετερων
of our

δε
-

μονον
only

αλλα
but

και
and

περι
about

ολου
of whole

του
of the

κοσμου
of world-universe

Yep, Jesus died for everyone, the saved, and the ones who reject Him.

 

[brightfame52]

That's my understanding of your post. But very happy to see that is not what you actually meant.

And so you forced the word forced into the equation

 

[brightfame52]

Agreed!
But God does not make you accept it.

The Gift of repentance comes with the New Birth, a new heart and inner man. This is the New Man that has repentance, his actions have been ordained by God to walk in, not forced

 

[brightfame52]

1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.
και
and

αυτος
he

ιλασμος
-

εστιν
he is

περι
about

των
of the

αμαρτιων
of errors

ημων
of us

ου
not

περι
about

των
of the

ημετερων
of our

δε
-

μονον
only

αλλα
but

και
and

περι
about

ολου
of whole

του
of the

κοσμου
of world-universe

Yep, Jesus died for everyone, the saved, and the ones who reject Him.

That scripture pertains only to the saved, they have Christ as their Advocate and Intercessor, even if they sin 1 jJn 2:1-2

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Christ isnt the advocate for lost people, He never knew them Matt 7:23

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

You think Hes their advocate and propitiation ?

 

[MerSee]

Guilt doesn't save anyone. Neither does repentance. Jesus saves.
Salvation is the revelation and application of the work of Jesus to an individual. It is a demonstration of the grace of God wherein the hearing is given and the heart is circumcised that affects the will to respond in faith.
This is what happened to 3,000 souls the day of Pentecost. Countless thousands more did not have the same response despite hearing the same message and experiencing the outpouring of the Spirit and subsequent signs. What explains the different responses?

Mathew 21:32
For John came to you in the way of justice, and you did not believe him. But the publicans and the harlots believed him: but you, seeing it, did not even afterwards repent, that you might believe him.

 

[MerSee]

If someone believes they must do something to become saved, and if they don't do that, then they won't be saved, but by
doing it, then they become saved, in effect, they then become their own saviour, don't they? Isn't that what you believe that
you must do something, like produce your own faith in Christ rather than of it being a gift? So then, how could any other interpretation be drawn?

Christ is correctly perceived as Saviour when it is realized that He does it all, we do nothing - every millimeter of it is fully and completely a gift from a merciful and gracious God with nothing remaining to be done. We are to just rest in what He had accomplished on our behalf. Everything we might attempt to do to complete it is in effect actually saying that Jesus's offering was incomplete as it stands, and that we must do something to close the circle (so to speak).

It can't be both ways. Either we must do something, no matter how slight to acquire it, in which case we've saved ourselves, or, we rest trusting entirely in what Christ did. The latter is the correct answer.

The New Testament commandments of God do not testify to what you have written here. The New Testament commandments are still binding on everyone.

 

[MerSee]

If someone believes they must do something to become saved, and if they don't do that, then they won't be saved, but by
doing it, then they become saved, in effect, they then become their own saviour, don't they? Isn't that what you believe that
you must do something, like produce your own faith in Christ rather than of it being a gift? So then, how could any other interpretation be drawn?

Christ is correctly perceived as Saviour when it is realized that He does it all, we do nothing - every millimeter of it is fully and completely a gift from a merciful and gracious God with nothing remaining to be done. We are to just rest in what He had accomplished on our behalf. Everything we might attempt to do to complete it is in effect actually saying that Jesus's offering was incomplete as it stands, and that we must do something to close the circle (so to speak).

It can't be both ways. Either we must do something, no matter how slight to acquire it, in which case we've saved ourselves, or, we rest trusting entirely in what Christ did. The latter is the correct answer.

Can you name a New Testament commandment/commandments from God which you believe are no longer binding on anyone.

 

[MerSee]

We've been through that. If we have to "yield" to be saved, then by doing so, we save ourselves. But in that case, Christ
isn't the Saviour, we are. No, Christ alone must do it all from beginning to end - we contribute nothing.

The elect are saved because they believe and obey Jesus Christ.

 

[MerSee]

No. God has only chosen certain people to apply Christ's offering to, not everyone, hence:

[Eph 1:4 KJV] 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

A person who does not obey Jesus Christ is not holy and without blame.

 

[MerSee]

He died for the world to come because He died for the sins of those who would inhabit it. This world is to be destroyed. Nothing that Christ died for, by the fact He died for it, can die or be destroyed.

Christ did not shed His blood for heathens; Christ only shed His blood for the elect.

 

[MerSee]

No, we shouldn't. Bible first, scholars second. Compare the scholars to the Bible, not the Bible to the scholars. They
may provide good ancillary help, but the main source, the only true spiritual authority, is the Bible.

The Holy Bible and the correct scholars are in 100% agreement.

 

[rogerg]

Using the Greek translation

The word kosmos refers to the universe or the whole of creation.

kosmos is the word the Apostle John used in 1 John 2:2

2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world = kosmos or the universe or the whole of creation

So John is saying not just the saved, but Jesus died for EVERYONE!

Whatever was intended by God to be covered by Christ's offering can neither die nor be destroyed. If either could, then His offering didn't achieve what God had intended it to achieve. But we know it wasn't a failure and perfectly achieved what it was intended for because God had fully accepted it - hence Christ's title of Saviour. It can't be both ways: that He is the Saviour and yet all covered by it don't become saved - that would be a logical contradiction of the highest order.
This current "kosmos" (world) is to be destroyed by God but two are mentioned in the Bible not one: this one, along with its unsaved, which will be destroyed, and a new one with those saved by Christ who will inhabit it - both eternal. Christ is the Saviour and as Saviour, whatever was covered by His offering, can neither die nor be destroyed but must live/exist eternally.
Now, I cannot speak to what the new one will be like - it might just be Christ together with His saved in the air (see 1 Th 4:17 below), and not a world as we know it today.

[2Pe 3:7, 10-12 KJV]
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. ...
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 [Seeing] then [that] all these things shall be dissolved, what manner [of persons] ought ye to be in [all] holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

[1Th 4:17 KJV]
17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[Mar 10:30 KJV]
30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
[Luk 18:30 KJV]
30 Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.
[Heb 2:5 KJV]
5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
[Heb 6:5 KJV]
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

 

[rogerg]

Christ did not shed His blood for heathens; Christ only shed His blood for the elect.

By the fact that Christ shed His blood for them, is what makes them not heathens - but not because of anything they might do.

 

[Cameron143]

Mathew 21:32
For John came to you in the way of justice, and you did not believe him. But the publicans and the harlots believed him: but you, seeing it, did not even afterwards repent, that you might believe him.

I don't understand your point. Can you explain it in your own words.