Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

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My Dear Brother in Christ, Roger.
It's good that we see the importance of One Salvation.

The rest is not as important as long as we know the only way to the Father is through Jesus Christ our Saviour.
 
TheDivineWatermark said:
Jn6:37a,b ^ is the same as (the distinction also spelled out in) John 6:39, John 6:40--see those verses:


--"that all THAT" (refers to "THINGS"--like "throne" ('and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David'-Lk1:32); "kingdom," etc... "things" like that);


--"that all WHO" (refers to "PERSONS")







[He's not just REPEATING in v.40 what He had just stated in v.39... but is DISTINGUISHING between...; same within v.37 (a,b); so IN VIEW of this, READ THESE VERSES CAREFULLY :) ]
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This is an interesting take. How do you understand Acts 13:48?
 
FollowerofShiloh said:
My Dear Brother in Christ, Roger.
It's good that we see the importance of One Salvation.

The rest is not as important as long as we know the only way to the Father is through Jesus Christ our Saviour.
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But through Christ does not mean by man.
 
rogerg said:
and that man is not his own saviour.
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Strawman argument.

None of us (on either side of this discussion) believes that "man is his own saviour"

(at least not that I've seen from anyone in this discussion... I've not read the entire thread, however.)
 
TheDivineWatermark said:
Strawman argument.

None of us (on either side of this discussion) believes that "man is his own saviour"

(at least not that I've seen from anyone in this discussion... I've not read the entire thread, however.)
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If someone believes they must do something to become saved, and if they don't do that, then they won't be saved, but by
doing it, then they become saved, in effect, they then become their own saviour, don't they? Isn't that what you believe that
you must do something, like produce your own faith in Christ rather than of it being a gift? So then, how could any other interpretation be drawn?

Christ is correctly perceived as Saviour when it is realized that He does it all, we do nothing - every millimeter of it is fully and completely a gift from a merciful and gracious God with nothing remaining to be done. We are to just rest in what He had accomplished on our behalf. Everything we might attempt to do to complete it is in effect actually saying that Jesus's offering was incomplete as it stands, and that we must do something to close the circle (so to speak).

It can't be both ways. Either we must do something, no matter how slight to acquire it, in which case we've saved ourselves, or, we rest trusting entirely in what Christ did. The latter is the correct answer.
 
Christ draws us and we must yield to that drawing.

Matthew 16:24Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.”
 
FollowerofShiloh said:
Christ draws us and we must yield to that drawing.
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We've been through that. If we have to "yield" to be saved, then by doing so, we save ourselves. But in that case, Christ
isn't the Saviour, we are. No, Christ alone must do it all from beginning to end - we contribute nothing.
 
rogerg said:
We've been through that. If we have to "yield" to be saved, then by doing so, we save ourselves. But in that case, Christ
isn't the Saviour, we are.
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If what you say is true then all humans alive should be saved because God just makes them saved.
 
FollowerofShiloh said:
If what you say is true then all humans alive should be saved because God just makes them saved.
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No. God has only chosen certain people to apply Christ's offering to, not everyone, hence:

[Eph 1:4 KJV] 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
 
Steps that happen to be saved according to Bible Scholars

1. First, we must hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Bible teaches that “faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God”

2. Second, one must believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. Jesus said: “...except ye believe that I am he, ye shall die in your sins”

3. Third, one must repent of his sins in order to be saved

Same thing that Peter said, 38 And Peter said to them: Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for remission of your sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
 
rogerg said:
No. God has only chosen certain people to apply Christ's offering to, not everyone, hence:

[Eph 1:4 KJV] 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
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2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
 
FollowerofShiloh said:
Steps that happen to be saved according to Bible Scholars

1. First, we must hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Bible teaches that “faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God”

2. Second, one must believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. Jesus said: “...except ye believe that I am he, ye shall die in your sins”

3. Third, one must repent of his sins in order to be saved
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Yeah, well, I wouldn't put too much weight in what "Bible Scholars" say. If you do, you'd be trusting in them and in their interpretation
rather than in the Bible alone. Observe:

[2Ti 3:16-17 KJV]
16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
 
FollowerofShiloh said:
2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
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But which world? The Bible mentions two: this current world and the world to come:

[Jhn 18:36 KJV] 36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
 
rogerg said:
But which world? The Bible mentions two: this current world and the world to come:

[Jhn 18:36 KJV] 36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
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He was in this world when He died. So for the world He died in. He won't be dying in the next world.
 
rogerg said:
Yeah, well, I wouldn't put too much weight in what "Bible Scholars" say. If you do, you'd be trusting in them and in their interpretation
rather than in the Bible alone. Observe:

[2Ti 3:16-17 KJV]
16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
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I posted those 3 steps from a Reformed Scholar. Guess we shouldn't listen to Reformed scholars about the Bible then.
 
FollowerofShiloh said:
He was in this world when He died. So for the world He died in. He won't be dying in the next world.
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He died for the world to come because He died for the sins of those who would inhabit it. This world is to be destroyed. Nothing that Christ died for, by the fact He died for it, can die or be destroyed.
 
rogerg said:
He died for the world to come because He died for the sins of those who would inhabit it. This world is to be destroyed. Nothing that Christ died for, by the fact He died for it, can die or be destroyed.
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But it's the people in this world that will live in the coming one. So He died for the people of this current world.
 
FollowerofShiloh said:
I posted those 3 steps from a Reformed Scholar. Guess we shouldn't listen to Reformed scholars about the Bible then.
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No, we shouldn't. Bible first, scholars second. Compare the scholars to the Bible, not the Bible to the scholars. They
may provide good ancillary help, but the main source, the only true spiritual authority, is the Bible.
 
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