Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
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I don't know what you're talking about. I absolutely, most definitely hold to it - Christ is the foundation of the Bible and of salvation and not man - you don't believe that? Whoever Christ died for, their sins have been forgiven and purged. If they are purged, then they're gone with nothing remaining to be done by us to complete the purging. You insert requirements of your own making into that process which are not part of that process, and by that, you corrupt God 's salvation message: Christ is the Saviour, man is not.
And I'm about done following you down (your) rabbit holes.
[Heb 1:3 KJV] 3 Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
[Rom 8:34 KJV] 34 Who [is] he that condemneth? [It is] Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
And I'm about done following you down (your) rabbit holes.
[Heb 1:3 KJV] 3 Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
[Rom 8:34 KJV] 34 Who [is] he that condemneth? [It is] Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
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Well-then you are going to have to be very innovative and creative in your interpretation of some verses-since I believe God's sovereignty and freewill is biblical.
2Pe 2:1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.
That bought them (ton agorasanta autous). First aorist active articular participle of agorazō, same idea with lutroō in 1Pe_1:18. These were professing Christians, at any rate, these heretics.
1Jn 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
Eze 33:11 Say to them, As I live, declares the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn back, turn back from your evil ways, for why will you die, O house of Israel?
Luk 7:30 but the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected the purpose of God for themselves, not having been baptized by him.)
Act_12:16 But Peter continued knocking: and when they had opened the door, and saw him, they were astonished.
Rev_3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Also noticed you are not too willing to dialogue-so with that-I'll leave you with these Scriptures to ponder upon.
Have a good day.
J.
2Pe 2:1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.
That bought them (ton agorasanta autous). First aorist active articular participle of agorazō, same idea with lutroō in 1Pe_1:18. These were professing Christians, at any rate, these heretics.
1Jn 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
Eze 33:11 Say to them, As I live, declares the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn back, turn back from your evil ways, for why will you die, O house of Israel?
Luk 7:30 but the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected the purpose of God for themselves, not having been baptized by him.)
Act_12:16 But Peter continued knocking: and when they had opened the door, and saw him, they were astonished.
Rev_3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Also noticed you are not too willing to dialogue-so with that-I'll leave you with these Scriptures to ponder upon.
Have a good day.
J.
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@rogerg
And they are purged Roger Heb 1:3
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
And only Gods elect will be given Faith in this blessed Truth
And they are purged Roger Heb 1:3
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
And only Gods elect will be given Faith in this blessed Truth
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Well-seeing you are only a one liner kind of person-I'm going to say I emphatically disagree with you based on what stands written-Perfect Tense-and not what @brightfame52 is saying.
Scripture disagree with your interpretation-no offense.
J.
Scripture disagree with your interpretation-no offense.
J.
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Christ by His Death has purged our sins, and has presented us, if elect, like this before God Col 1:20-22
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
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That is simply your incorrect opinion.
Again, "1 John 2:2, "He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."
What is it about the effect of Jesus' sacrifice for all people and some choosing to accept it that you don't understand?
P.S. You should use a better version than the King James Bible.
Again, "1 John 2:2, "He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."
What is it about the effect of Jesus' sacrifice for all people and some choosing to accept it that you don't understand?
P.S. You should use a better version than the King James Bible.
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"When he had made purification of sins" This is an aorist middle participle which emphasizes the subject (middle voice) and describes a completed act (aorist tense, cf. Heb. 7:27; 9:12,28; 10:10). Jesus has acted on behalf of sinful mankind (cf. Mark 10:45; 2 Cor. 5:21).
The term "purification" is used in the NT in several senses.
1. ceremonial cleansing (cf. Luke 2:22; 5:14; John 2:6)
2. physical healing (cf. Mark 1:44)
3. a metaphor for expiation (cf. Heb. 1:3; 2 Pet. 1:9, so says William D. Mounce in his Analytical Lexicon to the Greek New Testament, p. 257)
We get the English word "catharsis" from this Greek term.
Notice the descriptive phrase "of sins." There are two possible ways to understand this phrase: (1) it is objective genitive "of sins," not ablative "from sins."
Jesus' death dealt with the sin problem; (2) it is plural which does not imply mankind's Adamic nature, "the sin problem," but individual acts of sin. Jesus dealt with the guilt of mankind's rebellion (past and present).
This textual option is accepted by the UBS4 scholars, but there is another possibility. In the Alexandrian textual family represented by P46 the phrase "through himself" (dia heautou) occurs instead of "His" (autou), which makes it refer to the previous clause. This same type of manuscript variant is found in 1 John 5:18b. It is interesting that this "through himself" is lacking in other early Alexandrian textual family representatives (א and B). It is surely possible that orthodox scribes feared that the phrase "through himself made purification of sins" might lead to gnostic speculation and changed "di'heautou" to "autou." For a more complete discussion of the tendencies of orthodox scribes see Bart D. Ehrman's, The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture, Oxford Press, 1993.
"He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high" This is a figurative way of stating Jesus' finished work and exaltation (cf. Ps. 110:1; Luke 22:69). God does not have a right hand. This is a biblical metaphor (anthropomorphic) of power, authority, and preeminence. No OT priest ever sat down! Jesus' earthly work is finished. In a sense this is a kingly, royal metaphor (cf. Ps. 2; 45; and 110:1-3) linked to a priestly function (cf. Ps. 110:4 and Zechariah 4). The Dead Sea community expected two Messiahs, one priestly (i.e., line of Aaron, tribe of Levi), one kingly (i.e., line of Jesse, tribe of Judah). Jesus fulfills all three OT anointed offices: prophet (cf. Deut. 18:18), priest (cf. Ps. 110:4), and king (cf. 2 Sam. 7:13,16; Ps. 2; 110:1-3).
NASB, NKJV,
NRSV "the Majesty on high"
TEV "of God, the Supreme Power"
NJB "the divine Majesty on high"
This is a circumlocution. Jews were afraid to use God's name lest they take it in vain (cf. Exod.20:7) so they inserted many alternate terms and phrases (i.e., "Kingdom of heaven," "throne," etc.) or used the passive voice to refer to Him.
1:4 This verse seems to be a transition between Heb. 1:1-3 and Heb. 1:5-14. Today's English Version (TEV) begins the discussion of Jesus' superiority over the angels with Heb. 1:3.
The name which Jesus has been given that is greater than the angels (cf. Rom. 8:38-39; Eph. 1:21; Col. 2:15) is "son" (cf. Heb. 1:5 [twice] and 8) or "Lord" (cf. Heb. 1:10 and Phil. 2:9-11).
For "much better" see full note at Heb. 7:7.
Nothing re the elect here-
J
The term "purification" is used in the NT in several senses.
1. ceremonial cleansing (cf. Luke 2:22; 5:14; John 2:6)
2. physical healing (cf. Mark 1:44)
3. a metaphor for expiation (cf. Heb. 1:3; 2 Pet. 1:9, so says William D. Mounce in his Analytical Lexicon to the Greek New Testament, p. 257)
We get the English word "catharsis" from this Greek term.
Notice the descriptive phrase "of sins." There are two possible ways to understand this phrase: (1) it is objective genitive "of sins," not ablative "from sins."
Jesus' death dealt with the sin problem; (2) it is plural which does not imply mankind's Adamic nature, "the sin problem," but individual acts of sin. Jesus dealt with the guilt of mankind's rebellion (past and present).
This textual option is accepted by the UBS4 scholars, but there is another possibility. In the Alexandrian textual family represented by P46 the phrase "through himself" (dia heautou) occurs instead of "His" (autou), which makes it refer to the previous clause. This same type of manuscript variant is found in 1 John 5:18b. It is interesting that this "through himself" is lacking in other early Alexandrian textual family representatives (א and B). It is surely possible that orthodox scribes feared that the phrase "through himself made purification of sins" might lead to gnostic speculation and changed "di'heautou" to "autou." For a more complete discussion of the tendencies of orthodox scribes see Bart D. Ehrman's, The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture, Oxford Press, 1993.
"He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high" This is a figurative way of stating Jesus' finished work and exaltation (cf. Ps. 110:1; Luke 22:69). God does not have a right hand. This is a biblical metaphor (anthropomorphic) of power, authority, and preeminence. No OT priest ever sat down! Jesus' earthly work is finished. In a sense this is a kingly, royal metaphor (cf. Ps. 2; 45; and 110:1-3) linked to a priestly function (cf. Ps. 110:4 and Zechariah 4). The Dead Sea community expected two Messiahs, one priestly (i.e., line of Aaron, tribe of Levi), one kingly (i.e., line of Jesse, tribe of Judah). Jesus fulfills all three OT anointed offices: prophet (cf. Deut. 18:18), priest (cf. Ps. 110:4), and king (cf. 2 Sam. 7:13,16; Ps. 2; 110:1-3).
NASB, NKJV,
NRSV "the Majesty on high"
TEV "of God, the Supreme Power"
NJB "the divine Majesty on high"
This is a circumlocution. Jews were afraid to use God's name lest they take it in vain (cf. Exod.20:7) so they inserted many alternate terms and phrases (i.e., "Kingdom of heaven," "throne," etc.) or used the passive voice to refer to Him.
1:4 This verse seems to be a transition between Heb. 1:1-3 and Heb. 1:5-14. Today's English Version (TEV) begins the discussion of Jesus' superiority over the angels with Heb. 1:3.
The name which Jesus has been given that is greater than the angels (cf. Rom. 8:38-39; Eph. 1:21; Col. 2:15) is "son" (cf. Heb. 1:5 [twice] and 8) or "Lord" (cf. Heb. 1:10 and Phil. 2:9-11).
For "much better" see full note at Heb. 7:7.
Nothing re the elect here-
J
What kind of strange English is that???
Here is a far better translation of that verse -- in context: Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life. Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.” John 6:61-65
Here is a far better translation of that verse -- in context: Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life. Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.” John 6:61-65
Of course one can.
Look at Job. He was told to curse God and die. That means he could have cursed God and died or that option "could not" be available to him.
If we can reject God we can accept God.
That's Free Will.
God died for all humans who have Free Will.
The Sheep are those who used their "Free Will" to follow God.
The damned are those who used their "Free Will" to reject God.
Look at Job. He was told to curse God and die. That means he could have cursed God and died or that option "could not" be available to him.
If we can reject God we can accept God.
That's Free Will.
God died for all humans who have Free Will.
The Sheep are those who used their "Free Will" to follow God.
The damned are those who used their "Free Will" to reject God.