Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[jamessb]

Posted by mistake and I can't delete it.

 

[jamessb]

Jesus got up on that Cross and shed His precious blood for any and all who would believe in Him. Did God know that not "all" would? Yes. However, that does not change the fact that the precious blood of Jesus, which cleanses us of our sin, and makes us worthy to be called the children of God, was available to "all" who believed in Him.

1 Timothy, Chapter 2:

4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Jesus' sacrifice was for all humanity. Does anyone seriously think that the ultimate sacrifice of Jesus Christ, the Son of God who created the world, was only partially effective???

 

[Johann]

I have no intention of going through each and every verse you posted because I have neither time, energy nor desire to do so.
I will just leave you with the below which demonstrates beyond question that the natural unsaved man cannot know things spiritual in order to truly believe unless and until first becoming saved.

[1Co 2:12-14 KJV]
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

[Luk 1:77 KJV]
77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

[2Co 4:3-4 KJV]
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Of course I agree with what the Scriptures is saying on this text-but why not bring in the solution? As it stands written in Scripture? The Cross of Christ-we have a mandate, to preach/promulgate Jesus to every creature-


Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

Teaching them. Mat_5:19; *Mat_7:24-27; Mat_11:29, Exo_4:15; Exo_18:16; Exo_18:19-21; Exo_21:1, Lev_10:11, *Deu_5:32; Deu_12:32, +*2Ch_17:9, Ezr_7:6, Psa_143:10, Jer_1:7; Jer_26:2, *Eze_2:7, *Dan_11:33, Luk_14:23, **Act_2:42; Act_14:3; Act_15:35; *Act_20:20; *Act_20:21; *Act_20:27, 1Co_11:2; 1Co_11:23; 1Co_14:37, *Eph_4:11-17; *Eph_4:20, etc. *Col_1:28, *1Th_4:1; *1Th_4:2, 2Th_3:6-12, *1Ti_6:1-5, Tit_2:1-10; Tit_2:12, 1Pe_2:10-19, *2Pe_1:5-11; 2Pe_3:2, 1Jn_2:3-4; 1Jn_3:19-24, Rev_22:14.

1. didache (G1322), akin to No. 1, under DOCTOR, denotes "teaching," either (a) that which is taught, e.g., Mat_7:28, KJV, "doctrine," RV, "teaching"; Tit_1:9, RV; Rev_2:14-15, Rev_2:24, or (b) the act of teaching, instruction, e.g., Mar_4:2, KJV, "doctrine," RV, "teaching" the RV has "the doctrine" in Rom_16:17. See NOTE (1) below.
2. didaskalia (G1319) denotes, as No. 1 (from which, however, it is to be distinguished), (a) "that which is taught, doctrine," Mat_15:9; Mar_7:7; Eph_4:14; Col_2:22; 1Ti_1:10; 1Ti_4:1, 1Ti_4:6; 1Ti_6:1, 1Ti_6:3; 2Ti_4:3; Tit_1:9 ("doctrine," in last part of verse: see also No. 1); Tit_2:1, Tit_2:10; (b) "teaching, instruction," Rom_12:7, "teaching"; Rom_15:4, "learning", 1Ti_4:13, KJV, "doctrine," RV, "teaching"; 1Ti_4:16, KJV, "the doctrine," RV, (correctly) "thy teaching; 1Ti_5:17, KJV, "doctrine," RV "teaching"; 2Ti_3:10, 2Ti_3:16 (ditto); Tit_2:7, "thy doctrine." Cf. No. 1, under DOCTOR. See LEARNING.

Notes: (I) Whereas didache is used only twice in the Pastoral Epistles, 2Ti_4:2, and Tit_1:9, didaskalia occurs fifteen times. Both are used in the active and passive senses (i.e., the act of teaching and what is taught), the passive is predominant in didache, the active in didaskalia, the former stresses the authority, the latter the act (Cremer). Apart from the apostle Paul, other writers make use of didache only, save in Mat_15:9 and Mar_7:7 (didaskalia).
(2) In Heb_6:1, logos, "a word," is translated "doctrine," KJV; the RV margin gives the lit. rendering, "the word (of the beginning of Christ)," and, in the text, "the (first) principles (of Christ)."


διδάσκω
didáskō; fut. didáxō, from dáō (n.f.), to know or teach. Teach, instruct by word of mouth (Mat_28:15, Mat_28:20; Luk_11:1; Luk_12:12; Act_15:1; 1Co_11:14; Rev_2:14).
(I) Generally and in an absolute sense (Mat_4:23; Mat_9:35; Mar_1:21; Luk_4:15; 1Co_4:17; 1Co_11:14; Eph_4:21). Construed with the acc. of person or thing or both: of person (Mat_5:2; Mar_9:31; Luk_4:31; Joh_7:35; Sept.: Job_13:23; Job_37:19; Pro_4:4); of thing (Mat_15:9; 1Ti_4:11; Tit_1:11; Sept.: Isa_9:15; Ecc_12:9); of both person and thing (Joh_14:26; Heb_5:12). In the pass. construction, edidáchthēte, you were taught (2Th_2:15; Sept.: Deu_11:19; Jdg_3:2; Pro_4:11; Pro_22:21). Instead of the acc. of a thing it is sometimes followed by the inf. (Mat_28:20; Luk_11:1; Rev_2:14 [TR]; Sept.: Deu_4:1; Deu_20:18; Job_10:2); or by hóti (G3754), that (Mar_8:31); by perí (G4012), regarding, with the gen. of a thing (1Jn_2:27). With the dat. of person (acc. in [TR]; Rev_2:14; see Deu_33:10; Job_21:22).
(II) In the sense of to tutor, direct, advise, put in mind (Mat_28:15; Joh_9:34; Act_21:21; Heb_8:11; Rev_2:20). Other references: Mat_7:29; Mat_21:23; Mat_22:16; Mat_26:55; Mar_1:22; Mar_2:13; Mar_4:1-2; Mar_6:2, Mar_6:6, Mar_6:30, Mar_6:34; Mar_7:7; Mar_11:17; Mar_12:14, Mar_12:35; Mar_14:49; Luk_5:3, Luk_5:17; Luk_6:6; Luk_13:10, Luk_13:22, Luk_13:26; Luk_19:47; Luk_20:21; Luk_21:37; Luk_23:5; Joh_6:59; Joh_7:14, Joh_7:28; Joh_8:2, Joh_8:20, Joh_8:28; Act_1:1; Act_4:2, Act_4:18; Act_5:21, Act_5:25, Act_5:28; Act_18:11, Act_18:25; Act_20:20; Act_21:28; Act_28:31; Rom_2:21; Gal_1:12; Col_2:7; Col_3:16; 1Ti_2:12; 1Ti_6:2; 2Ti_2:2.
(III) In Col_1:28; Col_3:16 didáskō occurs with nouthetéō (G3560), to admonish or to set the mind right. In this connection as well as in 1Ti_4:11; 1Ti_6:2; 2Ti_2:2; Tit_1:11, didáskō is used in a pastoral and moral connection.
(IV) Didáskō has inherent in it the intent to influence the understanding of the person who is taught. Its counterparts are akoúō (G191), to hear for the purpose of understanding, and manthánō (G3129), to learn, from which mathētḗs (G3101), learner, pupil, disciple, is derived. The one didáskei, teaches, and the other mathēteúei (G3100), learns or assimilates what he learns as part of himself (Mat_10:24-25; Luk_6:40; Luk_19:39). Kērússō (G2784), to preach or proclaim, does not have inherent the same expectation of learning and assimilation as that which is being taught (didáskō) (Mat_4:23; Mat_9:35; Mat_11:1; Mat_13:54; Luk_20:1; Act_5:42; Act_15:35). The thing aimed at when one teaches (didáskō) is the shaping of the will of the one taught by the communication of knowledge (Mat_5:19; Act_21:21; Col_1:28). It is used in an absolute sense of Christ's teaching (Mar_9:31; Mar_10:1; Joh_8:20; Col_1:28), and as instruction in the Christian faith and teaching (Act_11:26; Rom_12:7; Col_1:28; Heb_5:12).
Deriv.: didaktikós (G1317), instructive, didactic, skilled in teaching, communicative; didaktós (G1318), capable of being taught, instructed; didaskalía (G1319), instruction, teaching, either the manner of teaching or the content of teaching; didáskalos (G1320), a teacher; didachḗ (G1322), doctrine, instruction, the act or content of teaching which depends on the context in which it is found; theodídaktos (G2312), taught by God.
Syn.: paideúō (G3811), to instruct with discipline; katēchéō (G2727), to teach orally, the word from which we derive our Eng. "catechize" and "catechism" which is religious instruction; mathēteúō (G3100), to disciple, teach with the expectation of one's learning and appropriating; muéō (G3453), to initiate into certain mysteries, learn a secret.

We can enter into a discussion on any topic-but we need to bring in the Cross of Christ
J.

 

[Johann]

Jesus' sacrifice was for all humanity. Does anyone seriously think that the ultimate sacrifice of Jesus Christ, the Son of God who created the world, was only partially effective???

Some here do-I don't.
J.

 

[selahsays]

Jesus' sacrifice was for all humanity. Does anyone seriously think that the ultimate sacrifice of Jesus Christ, the Son of God who created the world, was only partially effective???

Not me. Our Father’s arms are open wide to receive “whoever will” come. Jesus went to that Cross for the whole wide world.

 

[brightfame52]

@p_rehbein

Jesus got up on that Cross and shed His precious blood for any and all who would believe in Him.

Correct, but He didn't die for them who will never believe in Him, because they were not His Sheep Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

 

[brightfame52]

Only those whom Jesus "got up on the Cross and shed His precious blood for" will believe.

Amen, believing in Him is a by-product consequence of His Blood shed for one !

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Not me. Our Father’s arms are open wide to receive “whoever will” come. Jesus went to that Cross for the whole wide world. View attachment 261083

And don't forget he's got the whole world in his hands 😋

 

[jamessb]

@p_rehbein



Correct, but He didn't die for them who will never believe in Him, because they were not His Sheep Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Jesus died for everyone!

1 John 2:2, "He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."

That end the discussion as far as I am concerned. If you disagree, take it up with God.

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus died for everyone!

1 John 2:2, "He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."

That end the discussion as far as I am concerned. If you disagree, take it up with God.

No He didnt, not the Jesus of Matt 1:21

 

[selahsays]

No He didnt, not the Jesus of Matt 1:21

And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. - Matthew 1:21 (KJV)

Jesus is the Savior of the world to those who believe in Him, according to John 3:16. Let’s read it again:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

- John 3:16-17 (KJV)

 

[Johann]

No He didnt, not the Jesus of Matt 1:21

I disagree with you-you want to take me up?


But also for the sins of the whole world - The phrase “the sins of” is not in the original, but is not improperly supplied, for the connection demands it. This is one of the expressions occurring in the New Testament which demonstrate that the atonement was made for all people, and which cannot be reconciled with any other opinion.

If he had died only for a part of the race, this language could not have been used. The phrase, “the whole world,” is one which naturally embraces all people; is such as would be used if it be supposed that the apostle meant to teach that Christ died for all people; and is such as cannot be explained on any other supposition. If he died only for the elect, it is not true that he is the “propitiation for the sins of the whole world”--

1Jn 2:2 καὶ kai|G2532|Conj|And αὐτὸς autos|G846|PPro-NM3S|He ἱλασμός hilasmos|G2434|N-NMS|[the] propitiation ἐστιν estin|G1510|V-PIA-3S|is περὶ peri|G4012|Prep|for τῶν tōn|G3588|Art-GFP|the ἁμαρτιῶν hamartiōn|G266|N-GFP|sins ἡμῶν, hēmōn|G1473|PPro-G1P|of us; οὐ ou|G3756|Adv|not περὶ peri|G4012|Prep|for τῶν tōn|G3588|Art-GFP|the ἡμετέρων hēmeterōn|G2251|PPro-GF1P|of ours δὲ de|G1161|Conj|and μόνον monon|G3440|Adv|only, ἀλλὰ alla|G235|Conj|but καὶ kai|G2532|Conj|also περὶ peri|G4012|Prep|for ὅλου holou|G3650|Adj-GMS|all τοῦ tou|G3588|Art-GMS|the κόσμου. kosmou|G2889|N-GMS|world.

For the sins of the whole world (περὶ ὅλου τοῦ κόσμου)
The sins of (A. V., italicized) should be omitted; as in Revelation, for the whole world. Compare 1Jn_4:14; Joh_4:42; Joh_7:32. “The propitiation is as wide as the sin” (Bengel). If men do not experience its benefit, the fault is not in its efficacy. Düsterdieck (cited by Huther) says, “The propitiation has its real efficacy for the whole world; to believers it brings life, to unbelievers death.” Luther: “It is a patent fact that thou too art a part of the whole world; so that thine heart cannot deceive itself, and think, the Lord died for Peter and Paul, but not for me.” On κόσμου see on Joh_1:9.

the whole. The construction holou tou kosmou means the world as a whole, whole, entire, complete; "(1) used with a noun to indicate its totality" (Friberg). John also uses this construction in 1Jn_5:19 where the word order is ho kosmos holos, "the whole world lies in the sphere of the wicked one." John’s usage of whole, holos, cannot be evaded. Christ died for the world as a whole, the entire world! Accordingly, the Atonement is co-extensive with the Fall. Note that but also, alla kai, is an emphatic construction which adds emphasis or contrast, and so not only ours…but also the world, thus emphatically Atonement is for Adam’s fallen race! (Cf. Joh_3:16; Joh_12:32; 2Co_5:14; Eph_2:14; 1Ti_2:4) [LNT, fn q]. 1Jn_4:14; 1Jn_5:19, Mat_26:28, Luk_14:22, +*Joh_1:9; +*Joh_1:29; Joh_3:17; Joh_4:42; Joh_6:51; Joh_11:51-52; Joh_12:32, Rom_5:15, 2Co_5:14; 2Co_5:18-21, +*1Ti_2:6; **1Ti_4:10, +*Heb_2:9, 2Pe_2:1, Rev_12:9.

Gill
but also for the sins of the whole world; the Syriac version renders it, "not for us only, but also for the whole world"; that is, not for the Jews only, for John was a Jew, and so were those he wrote unto, but for the Gentiles also. Nothing is more common in Jewish writings than to call the Gentiles עלמא, "the world"; and כל העולם, "the whole world"; and אומות העולם, "the nations of the world" (l); See Gill on John 12:19; and the word "world" is so used in Scripture; see Joh_3:16; and stands opposed to a notion the Jews have of the Gentiles, that אין להן כפרה, "there is no propitiation for them" (m): and it is easy to observe, that when this phrase is not used of the Gentiles, it is to be understood in a limited and restrained sense; as when they say ,
"it happened to a certain high priest, that when he went out of the sanctuary, כולי עלמא, "the whole world" went after him;''
which could only design the people in the temple. And elsewhere (o) it is said,
"amle ylwk, "the "whole world" has left the Misna, and gone after the "Gemara";''
which at most can only intend the Jews; and indeed only a majority of their doctors, who were conversant with these writings: and in another place (p),
"amle ylwk, "the whole world" fell on their faces, but Raf did not fall on his face;''
where it means no more than the congregation. Once more, it is said (q), when
"R. Simeon ben Gamaliel entered (the synagogue), כולי עלמא, "the whole world" stood up before him;''
that is, the people in the synagogue: to which may be added (r),
"when a great man makes a mourning, כולי עלמא, "the whole world" come to honour him;''
i.e. a great number of persons attend the funeral pomp: and so these phrases, כולי עלמא לא פליגי, "the whole world" is not divided, or does not dissent (s); כולי עלמא סברי, "the whole world" are of opinion (t), are frequently met with in the Talmud, by which, an agreement among the Rabbins, in certain points, is designed; yea, sometimes the phrase, "all the men of the world" (u), only intend the inhabitants of a city where a synagogue was, and, at most, only the Jews: and so this phrase, "all the world", or "the whole world", in Scripture, unless when it signifies the whole universe, or the habitable earth, is always used in a limited sense, either for the Roman empire, or the churches of Christ in the world, or believers, or the present inhabitants of the world, or a part of them only, Luk_2:1; and so it is in this epistle, 1Jn_5:19; where the whole world lying in wickedness is manifestly distinguished from the saints, who are of God, and belong not to the world; and therefore cannot be understood of all the individuals in the world; and the like distinction is in this text itself, for "the sins of the whole world" are opposed to "our sins", the sins of the apostle and others to whom he joins himself; who therefore belonged not to, nor were a part of the whole world, for whose sins Christ is a propitiation as for theirs: so that this passage cannot furnish out any argument for universal redemption; for besides these things, it may be further observed, that for whose sins Christ is a propitiation, their sins are atoned for and pardoned, and their persons justified from all sin, and so shall certainly be glorified, which is not true of the whole world, and every man and woman in it; moreover, Christ is a propitiation through faith in his blood, the benefit of his propitiatory sacrifice is only received and enjoyed through faith; so that in the event it appears that Christ is a propitiation only for believers, a character which does not agree with all mankind; add to this, that for whom Christ is a propitiation he is also an advocate, 1Jn_2:1; but he is not an advocate for every individual person in the world; yea, there is a world he will not pray for Joh_17:9, and consequently is not a propitiation for them. Once more, the design of the apostle in these words is to comfort his "little children" with the advocacy and propitiatory sacrifice of Christ, who might fall into sin through weakness and inadvertency; but what comfort would it yield to a distressed mind, to be told that Christ was a propitiation not only for the sins of the apostles and other saints, but for the sins of every individual in the world, even of these that are in hell? Would it not be natural for persons in such circumstances to argue rather against, than for themselves, and conclude that seeing persons might be damned notwithstanding the propitiatory sacrifice of Christ, that this might, and would be their case. In what sense Christ is a propitiation; see Gill on Rom_3:25. The Jews have no notion of the Messiah as a propitiation or atonement; sometimes they say (w) repentance atones for all sin; sometimes the death of the righteous (x); sometimes incense ; sometimes the priests' garments (z); sometimes it is the day of atonement (a); and indeed they are in the utmost puzzle about atonement; and they even confess in their prayers (b), that they have now neither altar nor priest to atone for them; See Gill on 1Jn_4:10.

Again-even the Reformers see this as ALL-Pantas-

Also for the sins of the whole world. Christ's advocacy is limited to believers (1Jn_2:1; 1Jn_1:7): His propitiation extends as widely as sin: note, 2Pe_2:1, "the whole world" cannot be restricted to the believing portion (cf. 1Jn_4:14 and 1Jn_5:19). 'Thou, too, art part of the world: thine heart cannot think, The Lord died for Peter and Paul, but not for me' (Luther).



Do take time-since we all have plenty of time-to look up the Scripture references

 

[Johann]

I disagree with you-you want to take me up?


But also for the sins of the whole world - The phrase “the sins of” is not in the original, but is not improperly supplied, for the connection demands it. This is one of the expressions occurring in the New Testament which demonstrate that the atonement was made for all people, and which cannot be reconciled with any other opinion.

If he had died only for a part of the race, this language could not have been used. The phrase, “the whole world,” is one which naturally embraces all people; is such as would be used if it be supposed that the apostle meant to teach that Christ died for all people; and is such as cannot be explained on any other supposition. If he died only for the elect, it is not true that he is the “propitiation for the sins of the whole world”--

1Jn 2:2 καὶ kai|G2532|Conj|And αὐτὸς autos|G846|PPro-NM3S|He ἱλασμός hilasmos|G2434|N-NMS|[the] propitiation ἐστιν estin|G1510|V-PIA-3S|is περὶ peri|G4012|Prep|for τῶν tōn|G3588|Art-GFP|the ἁμαρτιῶν hamartiōn|G266|N-GFP|sins ἡμῶν, hēmōn|G1473|PPro-G1P|of us; οὐ ou|G3756|Adv|not περὶ peri|G4012|Prep|for τῶν tōn|G3588|Art-GFP|the ἡμετέρων hēmeterōn|G2251|PPro-GF1P|of ours δὲ de|G1161|Conj|and μόνον monon|G3440|Adv|only, ἀλλὰ alla|G235|Conj|but καὶ kai|G2532|Conj|also περὶ peri|G4012|Prep|for ὅλου holou|G3650|Adj-GMS|all τοῦ tou|G3588|Art-GMS|the κόσμου. kosmou|G2889|N-GMS|world.

For the sins of the whole world (περὶ ὅλου τοῦ κόσμου)
The sins of (A. V., italicized) should be omitted; as in Revelation, for the whole world. Compare 1Jn_4:14; Joh_4:42; Joh_7:32. “The propitiation is as wide as the sin” (Bengel). If men do not experience its benefit, the fault is not in its efficacy. Düsterdieck (cited by Huther) says, “The propitiation has its real efficacy for the whole world; to believers it brings life, to unbelievers death.” Luther: “It is a patent fact that thou too art a part of the whole world; so that thine heart cannot deceive itself, and think, the Lord died for Peter and Paul, but not for me.” On κόσμου see on Joh_1:9.

the whole. The construction holou tou kosmou means the world as a whole, whole, entire, complete; "(1) used with a noun to indicate its totality" (Friberg). John also uses this construction in 1Jn_5:19 where the word order is ho kosmos holos, "the whole world lies in the sphere of the wicked one." John’s usage of whole, holos, cannot be evaded. Christ died for the world as a whole, the entire world! Accordingly, the Atonement is co-extensive with the Fall. Note that but also, alla kai, is an emphatic construction which adds emphasis or contrast, and so not only ours…but also the world, thus emphatically Atonement is for Adam’s fallen race! (Cf. Joh_3:16; Joh_12:32; 2Co_5:14; Eph_2:14; 1Ti_2:4) [LNT, fn q]. 1Jn_4:14; 1Jn_5:19, Mat_26:28, Luk_14:22, +*Joh_1:9; +*Joh_1:29; Joh_3:17; Joh_4:42; Joh_6:51; Joh_11:51-52; Joh_12:32, Rom_5:15, 2Co_5:14; 2Co_5:18-21, +*1Ti_2:6; **1Ti_4:10, +*Heb_2:9, 2Pe_2:1, Rev_12:9.

Gill
but also for the sins of the whole world; the Syriac version renders it, "not for us only, but also for the whole world"; that is, not for the Jews only, for John was a Jew, and so were those he wrote unto, but for the Gentiles also. Nothing is more common in Jewish writings than to call the Gentiles עלמא, "the world"; and כל העולם, "the whole world"; and אומות העולם, "the nations of the world" (l); See Gill on John 12:19; and the word "world" is so used in Scripture; see Joh_3:16; and stands opposed to a notion the Jews have of the Gentiles, that אין להן כפרה, "there is no propitiation for them" (m): and it is easy to observe, that when this phrase is not used of the Gentiles, it is to be understood in a limited and restrained sense; as when they say ,
"it happened to a certain high priest, that when he went out of the sanctuary, כולי עלמא, "the whole world" went after him;''
which could only design the people in the temple. And elsewhere (o) it is said,
"amle ylwk, "the "whole world" has left the Misna, and gone after the "Gemara";''
which at most can only intend the Jews; and indeed only a majority of their doctors, who were conversant with these writings: and in another place (p),
"amle ylwk, "the whole world" fell on their faces, but Raf did not fall on his face;''
where it means no more than the congregation. Once more, it is said (q), when
"R. Simeon ben Gamaliel entered (the synagogue), כולי עלמא, "the whole world" stood up before him;''
that is, the people in the synagogue: to which may be added (r),
"when a great man makes a mourning, כולי עלמא, "the whole world" come to honour him;''
i.e. a great number of persons attend the funeral pomp: and so these phrases, כולי עלמא לא פליגי, "the whole world" is not divided, or does not dissent (s); כולי עלמא סברי, "the whole world" are of opinion (t), are frequently met with in the Talmud, by which, an agreement among the Rabbins, in certain points, is designed; yea, sometimes the phrase, "all the men of the world" (u), only intend the inhabitants of a city where a synagogue was, and, at most, only the Jews: and so this phrase, "all the world", or "the whole world", in Scripture, unless when it signifies the whole universe, or the habitable earth, is always used in a limited sense, either for the Roman empire, or the churches of Christ in the world, or believers, or the present inhabitants of the world, or a part of them only, Luk_2:1; and so it is in this epistle, 1Jn_5:19; where the whole world lying in wickedness is manifestly distinguished from the saints, who are of God, and belong not to the world; and therefore cannot be understood of all the individuals in the world; and the like distinction is in this text itself, for "the sins of the whole world" are opposed to "our sins", the sins of the apostle and others to whom he joins himself; who therefore belonged not to, nor were a part of the whole world, for whose sins Christ is a propitiation as for theirs: so that this passage cannot furnish out any argument for universal redemption; for besides these things, it may be further observed, that for whose sins Christ is a propitiation, their sins are atoned for and pardoned, and their persons justified from all sin, and so shall certainly be glorified, which is not true of the whole world, and every man and woman in it; moreover, Christ is a propitiation through faith in his blood, the benefit of his propitiatory sacrifice is only received and enjoyed through faith; so that in the event it appears that Christ is a propitiation only for believers, a character which does not agree with all mankind; add to this, that for whom Christ is a propitiation he is also an advocate, 1Jn_2:1; but he is not an advocate for every individual person in the world; yea, there is a world he will not pray for Joh_17:9, and consequently is not a propitiation for them. Once more, the design of the apostle in these words is to comfort his "little children" with the advocacy and propitiatory sacrifice of Christ, who might fall into sin through weakness and inadvertency; but what comfort would it yield to a distressed mind, to be told that Christ was a propitiation not only for the sins of the apostles and other saints, but for the sins of every individual in the world, even of these that are in hell? Would it not be natural for persons in such circumstances to argue rather against, than for themselves, and conclude that seeing persons might be damned notwithstanding the propitiatory sacrifice of Christ, that this might, and would be their case. In what sense Christ is a propitiation; see Gill on Rom_3:25. The Jews have no notion of the Messiah as a propitiation or atonement; sometimes they say (w) repentance atones for all sin; sometimes the death of the righteous (x); sometimes incense ; sometimes the priests' garments (z); sometimes it is the day of atonement (a); and indeed they are in the utmost puzzle about atonement; and they even confess in their prayers (b), that they have now neither altar nor priest to atone for them; See Gill on 1Jn_4:10.

Again-even the Reformers see this as ALL-Pantas-

Also for the sins of the whole world. Christ's advocacy is limited to believers (1Jn_2:1; 1Jn_1:7): His propitiation extends as widely as sin: note, 2Pe_2:1, "the whole world" cannot be restricted to the believing portion (cf. 1Jn_4:14 and 1Jn_5:19). 'Thou, too, art part of the world: thine heart cannot think, The Lord died for Peter and Paul, but not for me' (Luther).



Do take time-since we all have plenty of time-to look up the Scripture references

Love this man-


Martin Luther's quote emphasizes the universal nature of Christ's sacrifice and the inclusivity of salvation for all individuals, regardless of their background or status. Luther underscores the idea that every person is a part of the world and, therefore, equally eligible to receive the benefits of Christ's death and resurrection. This concept challenges the notion that salvation is limited to specific individuals or groups, emphasizing that the redemptive work of Jesus applies to all humanity without exception.

 

[Johann]

No He didnt, not the Jesus of Matt 1:21

Context right?


Act 4:10 let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel that R23by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, R24whom God raised from the dead—by him this man is standing before you well.
Act 4:11 R25This JesusN1 is the stone that was R26rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone.N2
Act 4:12 And there is R1salvation R2in no one else, for R3there is no other R4name under heaven given among menN1 by which we must be saved.”


Act 13:22 And R11when he had removed him, R12he raised up David to be their king, of whom he testified and said, R13‘I have found in David the son of Jesse R14a man after my heart, R15who will do all my will.’
Act 13:23 R16Of this man's offspring God has brought to Israel R17a Savior, Jesus, R18as he promised.
Act 13:24 Before his coming, R19John had proclaimed R20a baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.

Act 13:37 but he whom R23God raised up did not see corruption.
Act 13:38 Let it be known to you therefore, brothers, R24that through this man R25forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,
Act 13:39 and by him R26everyone who believes is freedN1 from everything R1from which you could not be freed by the law of Moses.
Act 13:40 Beware, therefore, lest what is said in the Prophets should come about:
Act 13:41 R2“‘Look, you scoffers, be astounded and perish; for I am doing a work in your days, a work that you will not believe, even if one tells it to you.’”

Act 3:24 And R4all the prophets who have spoken, from Samuel and those who came after him, also proclaimed these days.
Act 3:25 R5You are the sons of the prophets and of R6the covenant that God made with your fathers, saying to Abraham, R7‘And in your offspring shall all the families of the earth be blessed.’
Act 3:26 R8God, R9having raised up his servant, sent him to you first, R10to bless you R11by turning every one of you from your wickedness.”

J.

 

[jamessb]

No He didnt, not the Jesus of Matt 1:21

Are you serious? If you are, you're clearly rationalizing.

Matthew 1:21 is not exclusive. Just because He will save His people from their sins does not mean that He won't save others also.

Are you actually claiming that the Apostle John was wrong when he wrote "He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world" and you are right?

 

[jamessb]

Jesus' sacrifice applied and applies and will apply to every single person. JESUS DIED FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD. To have everlasting life, a person must accept His sacrifice on her/his behalf.

 

[Johann]

Jesus' sacrifice applied and applies and will apply to every single person. JESUS DIED FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD. To have everlasting life, a person must accept His sacrifice on her/his behalf.

See post #832
J.

 

[rogerg]

Are you serious? If you are, you're clearly rationalizing.

Matthew 1:21 is not exclusive. Just because He will save His people from their sins does not mean that He won't save others also.

Are you actually claiming that the Apostle John was wrong when he wrote "He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world" and you are right?

Yes, it means exactly that, and you are the one rationalizing. You're trying to add more to the verse than it will support. It is His people, and His people alone, whom He saves.

[Luk 1:77 KJV] 77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

[Jhn 6:38-40, 44-45 KJV]
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. ...
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

 

[Johann]

Yes, it means exactly that, and you are the one rationalizing. You're trying to add more to the verse than it will support. It is His people, and His people alone, whom He saves.

[Luk 1:77 KJV] 77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

[Jhn 6:38-40, 44-45 KJV]
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. ...
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Good on quoting Scripture verses selectively-and leave out the context-ever heard of Miles Coverdale?

 

[rogerg]

Good on quoting Scripture verses selectively-and leave out the context-ever heard of Miles Coverdale?

Nope, never have. Which other verses do you suggest that I should have included?
This one?

[Jhn 6:65 KJV] 65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.