Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
- Thread starter MerSee
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The Spirit continually ministers/manifests/makes Himself known to someone through their spiritual hearing and because they grow in comprehension/ knowledge/believing of the gospel, which begins at salvation/spiritual rebirth. The hearing of faith - faith's hearing - is of Christ's faith. His faith is imputed to someone when they become saved/born-again.
I think that to gain a complete understanding, we also need to consider Gal 3:5. Observe in it that it is actually
speaking of the ministering of the Spirit which occurs after His indwelling of us.
[Gal 3:5 KJV]
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, [doeth he it] by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[Jhn 8:43, 47 KJV]
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. ...
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God.
I think that to gain a complete understanding, we also need to consider Gal 3:5. Observe in it that it is actually
speaking of the ministering of the Spirit which occurs after His indwelling of us.
[Gal 3:5 KJV]
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, [doeth he it] by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[Jhn 8:43, 47 KJV]
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. ...
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God.
No, it is not about the nation of Israel.
[Rom 9:18 KJV]
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.
Does this sound like God meant that He just loves less? Do you see the "vessels of wrath fitted to destruction" part?
[Rom 9:21 -22 KJV]
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
[Rom 9:18 KJV]
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.
Does this sound like God meant that He just loves less? Do you see the "vessels of wrath fitted to destruction" part?
[Rom 9:21 -22 KJV]
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
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See verse 12 (a few verses after your verses 3-5 [the "us"/"we" ^ ], but right before my verse 13 [the "you also" transition] I pointed out), which verse 12 says (of the "us/we" specifically),
"...who [were] fore-hoping [or, who before-hoped] [G4276 - proelpizō - "From πρό (G4253) ['pro'/before] and ἐλπίζω (G1679) ['elpizo'/hoped]" - participle] in Christ."
(I'm suggesting that this, [this verse] specifically, the "we/us" here, is not directly applicable to you and me, folks who've existed on the earth well after Jesus' earthly ministry and His Cross [as it is talking about ppl who "BEFORE-hoped" in Christ, early that first century, when Christ walked this earth/His earthly ministry]--though we are ALSO members of "the Church which is His body" i.e. ALL those having come to faith "in this present age [singular]" [btwn Pentecost and "our Rapture"]... who would be the "you also" aspect [v.13 transition]...)
[then the next verse, the "you also"... having heard the word of truth... having believed... ]
[v.12's "pro-elpiza" ^ (fore-hoped / fore-hoping) is kinda like the word "fore-knew" in Rom11:2a "God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew [G4267 - proginōskō (pro ginosko)]," in that, it is speaking here of OT Israel (that's the "WHEN" of the "FORE-knew" in this Rom11:2 verse)]
"...who [were] fore-hoping [or, who before-hoped] [G4276 - proelpizō - "From πρό (G4253) ['pro'/before] and ἐλπίζω (G1679) ['elpizo'/hoped]" - participle] in Christ."
(I'm suggesting that this, [this verse] specifically, the "we/us" here, is not directly applicable to you and me, folks who've existed on the earth well after Jesus' earthly ministry and His Cross [as it is talking about ppl who "BEFORE-hoped" in Christ, early that first century, when Christ walked this earth/His earthly ministry]--though we are ALSO members of "the Church which is His body" i.e. ALL those having come to faith "in this present age [singular]" [btwn Pentecost and "our Rapture"]... who would be the "you also" aspect [v.13 transition]...)
[then the next verse, the "you also"... having heard the word of truth... having believed... ]
[v.12's "pro-elpiza" ^ (fore-hoped / fore-hoping) is kinda like the word "fore-knew" in Rom11:2a "God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew [G4267 - proginōskō (pro ginosko)]," in that, it is speaking here of OT Israel (that's the "WHEN" of the "FORE-knew" in this Rom11:2 verse)]
No, they are indwelt AND THEN by that they can hear. The hearing is spiritual hearing, not human hearing. To be able to hear spiritually comes as a result of salvation and being born-again. That ability is not given to everyone, but only to those whom God had chosen for such - the elect. We have first to receive the Spirit in order to know the things of God.
[1Co 2:12 KJV] 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
[1Co 2:12 KJV] 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
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2 Timothy 4:3
1 I charge thee, before God and Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead, by his coming, and his kingdom: 2 Preach the word: be instant in season, out of season: reprove, entreat, rebuke in all patience and doctrine. 3 For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears 4 And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables. 5 But be thou vigilant, labour in all things, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill thy ministry. Be sober.
1 I charge thee, before God and Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead, by his coming, and his kingdom: 2 Preach the word: be instant in season, out of season: reprove, entreat, rebuke in all patience and doctrine. 3 For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears 4 And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables. 5 But be thou vigilant, labour in all things, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill thy ministry. Be sober.
