Water Baptism-What is in a Name?

[Wansvic]

Jesus was crucified and died literally. Baptism is not literally buried it is symbolic. All must come through the cross experience before water baptism.


There are people who have been water baptized yet are not saved because they wanted to be baptized because mommy or daddy was.

Yet there are people who came to Jesus from conviction of their sin and repented and had a meeting at the cross who were saved yet not water baptized.

Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection, and faith in that is what saves you. Baptism is publicly stating you are obedient to that truth.

In obedience to Christ, we get baptized. AS he was Baptized.

Please provide scripture that states baptism is pure symbolism.

 

[Wansvic]

John 3:3 Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.”

4 “How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked.
“Can he enter his mother’s womb a second time to be born?”

5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born
of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit. 7 Do not be amazed
that I said, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes. You hear its sound, but you
do not know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

Some take being born of water to mean the amniotic fluid of physical birth. I don't.

Jesus made a pretty clear distinction between physical water and the water that represents God's Word
which cleanses. Many seem to reject this understanding, despite our being told that water baptism is
the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. One is saved via repentance and belief, regardless of
whether or not one is water baptized, whereas it cannot be said that water baptism apart from faith
and belief holds any value whatsoever in terms of salvation. We are children of God through faith.
Jesus had John baptize Him in order to fulfill all righteous. Did Christ fulfill all righteousness?
I believe He did. We put on Christ's righteousness through faith in His shed righteous blood.

Water baptism is so important that Jesus personally baptized a grand total of zero people in
water. So important that the greatest apostle of them all was glad he water baptized so few.
Does this mean it is not important at all? No! But salvation does not depend on it.

"God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:" 1 Peter 3

 

[Magenta]

"God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the
flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:" 1 Peter 3

And none with Noah got wet, just as none who were baptized into Moses got wet. Not a drop of water.

 

[CS1]

In Jesus dwells the fulness of the Godhead bodily. (Col 2:9) Therefore one does not deny the Father and Holy Ghost when one is baptized in water in the name of Jesus.

Jesus became the author of salvation unto all those who OBEY Him. Heb 5:9

Nor does one deny Jesus when Baptized in the name of THe Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

 

[CS1]

Are you suggesting that Paul did not actually mean what he said? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." (Rom. 6:3-4) Clearly a spiritual reality takes place upon obedience to the command to be baptized in the name of Jesus.

Do you understand That Paul was not saying you were baptized in Jesus' name in Rom 6:3-4?

You must start with the verse number one to understand 3 and 4. The context is what?



Here is the context of authorial intent :


1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not!

How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?


4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.

7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,

9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more.

Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.



Paul is saying water baptism represents one entering the grave and dying, then resurrecting as Christ did. Therefore Sin can't live in you because YOU are supposed to Reckon yourself Dead to sin


"Reckon." meaning in the Greek "to count it to be so because it is so." New Mind. Renewed by the word of God transformed by the Spirit of God washed in the Blood of Jesus.

 

[CS1]

Please provide scripture that states baptism is pure symbolism.

Romans chapter 6, the context is there in the text. I am not going to play the word game. Some things are said in the Word. That means the same thing even if the "word, phrase, or term is not used. "


"Please provide scripture that states baptism is pure symbolism."

I did Ron chapter 6

Provide scripture that states Baptism is not symbolism?

 

[Niki7]

Please provide scripture that states baptism is pure symbolism.

you have been provided with scripture mulitple of multiple times as everyone here who knows you and your 'oneness' beliefs will acknowledge. you do not accept those scriptures or, you twist the meaning to try and create doubt in new believers.

water baptism does not save, most people acknowledge scripture that explains that in full

I have no intention of having another back and forth with you since you have proven, by your endless and fruitless discussions, that you are simply trying to persuade those who do not know better, into your erroneous 'oneness' beliefs

the following is from Got Questions and is a simple but true response to your endless and disingenuous questioning regarding water baptism

Water baptism symbolizes the believer’s total trust in and total reliance on the Lord Jesus Christ, as well as a commitment to live obediently to Him. It also expresses unity with all the saints (Ephesians 2:19), that is, with every person in every nation on earth who is a member of the Body of Christ (Galatians 3:27–28). Water baptism conveys this and more, but it is not what saves us. Instead, we are saved by grace through faith, apart from works (Ephesians 2:8–9). We are baptized because our Lord commanded it: “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit” (Matthew 28:19).

Water baptism is a beautiful picture of what our Lord has done for us. As we are completely immersed in the water, we symbolize burial with our Lord; we are baptized into His death on the cross and are no longer slaves to self or sin (Romans 6:3–7). When we are raised out of the water, we are symbolically resurrected—raised to new life in Christ to be with Him forever, born into the family of our loving God (Romans 8:16). Water baptism also illustrates the spiritual cleansing we experience when we are saved; just as water cleanses the flesh, so the Holy Spirit cleanses our hearts when we trust Christ.

 

[Niki7]

This is from Hebrews 9, KJV

11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

The entire chapter makes for good reading

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Do you understand That Paul was not saying you were baptized in Jesus' name in Rom 6:3-4?

You must start with the verse number one to understand 3 and 4. The context is what?



Here is the context of authorial intent :


1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not!

How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?


4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.

7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,

9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more.

Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.



Paul is saying water baptism represents one entering the grave and dying, then resurrecting as Christ did. Therefore Sin can't live in you because YOU are supposed to Reckon yourself Dead to sin


"Reckon." meaning in the Greek "to count it to be so because it is so." New Mind. Renewed by the word of God transformed by the Spirit of God washed in the Blood of Jesus.

This is from Hebrews 9, KJV

11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

The entire chapter makes for good reading

And none with Noah got wet, just as none who were baptized into Moses got wet. Not a drop of water.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

"God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:" 1 Peter 3

regardless of what anyone says to you about your views on baptism, i believe your understanding is correct,

I Just wanted to let you know.

Not only do I feal it's correct, but the way in which you've explained, and answered these nonsense speaking critics, without loosing your cool and patience, is just how I like to see people talk about God.

For me it's been a pleasure to listen to, as I've noticed so much abuse about baptism in this place.

How you can keep your cool so well, is truly something.

I find it totally disgusting what's being said about thee most treasured of all gifts.

In Fact it's made me feel physically sick.

 

[Wansvic]

And none with Noah got wet, just as none who were baptized into Moses got wet. Not a drop of water.

They are foreshadows.

 

[Wansvic]

Nor does one deny Jesus when Baptized in the name of THe Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Scripture and history indicate otherwise.

 

[mailmandan]

And none with Noah got wet, just as none who were baptized into Moses got wet. Not a drop of water.

Amen! In 1 Peter 3:21, Peter tells us that baptism now saves you, yet when Peter uses this phrase, he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it. He said that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism).

Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ARK for the SAVING of his household). The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE. In contrast, ONLY the wicked in Noah's day came in contact with the water and they all perished.

The Israelites were not literally water baptized into the body of Moses (1 Corinthians 10:2) and being "baptized into Moses" signified the open allegiance and public identification of the Israelites with Moses as their leader. Moses was formally recognized as the leader of the covenant people, the Israelites.

 

[Wansvic]

Do you understand That Paul was not saying you were baptized in Jesus' name in Rom 6:3-4?

You must start with the verse number one to understand 3 and 4. The context is what?



Here is the context of authorial intent :


1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not!

How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?


4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.

7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,

9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more.

Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.



Paul is saying water baptism represents one entering the grave and dying, then resurrecting as Christ did. Therefore Sin can't live in you because YOU are supposed to Reckon yourself Dead to sin


"Reckon." meaning in the Greek "to count it to be so because it is so." New Mind. Renewed by the word of God transformed by the Spirit of God washed in the Blood of Jesus.

It is through believing and water baptism that one becomes dead to sin. How? They are reborn.

"How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?"

 

[Wansvic]

Romans chapter 6, the context is there in the text. I am not going to play the word game. Some things are said in the Word. That means the same thing even if the "word, phrase, or term is not used. "


"Please provide scripture that states baptism is pure symbolism."

I did Ron chapter 6

Provide scripture that states Baptism is not symbolism?

"The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance FOR the REMISSION OF SINS." Mark 1:1-5

"Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it BECOMETH US to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him." Matt. 3:13-15 (both essential)


"And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance FOR the REMISSION OF SINS;" Luke 3:3

"...repentance and REMISSION OF SINS should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem." Luke 24:47

"...be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR the REMISSION OF SINS..." Acts 2:38

"To him give all the prophets witness, that THROUGH HIS NAME whosoever believeth in him shall RECEIVE REMISSION OF SINS" Acts 10:43 Afterward Peter commanded water baptism in the NAME OF THE LORD. Acts 10:48

"And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and WASH AWAY THY SINS, calling on the name of the Lord." Acts 22:16

 

[CS1]

Scripture and history indicate otherwise.

I disagree. I have not seen anything in scripture to say it is not valid to be baptized in The Name of The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit When Jesus Himself Taught all three .

 

[CS1]

It is through believing and water baptism that one becomes dead to sin. How? They are reborn.

"How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?"

That is symbolism. Water Baptism represents the grave. Please quote the verse correctly and full context.

Roman 6:3-4
3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death,
that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

BURIED with HIM

 

[Wansvic]

regardless of what anyone says to you about your views on baptism, i believe your understanding is correct,

I Just wanted to let you know.

Not only do I feal it's correct, but the way in which you've explained, and answered these nonsense speaking critics, without loosing your cool and patience, is just how I like to see people talk about God.

For me it's been a pleasure to listen to, as I've noticed so much abuse about baptism in this place.

How you can keep your cool so well, is truly something.

I find it totally disgusting what's being said about thee most treasured of all gifts.

In Fact it's made me feel physically sick.

Thank you for your kind words. But I have to say it is truly God's word that speaks for itself. And I thank God for His indwelling presence that keeps the flesh at bay.

Also, I can relate concerning the effects on your flesh. Taking a breather from the onslaught of spiritual attacks can be helpful:

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." Eph. 6

May you continue to be blessed!

 

[Wansvic]

I disagree. I have not seen anything in scripture to say it is not valid to be baptized in The Name of The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit When Jesus Himself Taught all three .

Consider the apostles never used the phrase; they consistently used the name.

Matthew 28:19 is easy to understand. Jesus gave a command. The apostles obeyed the command.

 

[Wansvic]

That is symbolism. Water Baptism represents the grave. Please quote the verse correctly and full context.

Roman 6:3-4
3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death,
that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

BURIED with HIM

"God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? (a spiritual reality)

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." Romans 6:2-4