TEMPLE......TO BE OR NOT TO BE....THAT IS MY QUESTION!!!!!
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I guess you missed the part of there being a new heaven and new earth and new jerusalem. Ie, God made their land even greater.
Eternal is still eternal. It never ends..
Thats why it surprises me you believe eternal life is eternal. Because God made the same promise to you.. yet you think he will keep his promise to you even though he failed to keep his promise to them
what do you think the great tribulation is? It is Gods wrath on evil that we have been witnessing and is getting greater and greater.
God is patient. Willing that non should perish.. But God will clean the earth of evil before he returns.. and punish the world.
what do you think his wrath is? A lot of people think it is hell. Thats not Gods wrath, thats God Judgment on satan and his angels and those who do not believe.
Israel is not restored. Its nation and great city still is in desolation. It is no different really then in Christs time, Only now you have jews, Christians and Muslims all in the same city. And millions of jews still remain dispersed all over the world.
It will build a temple (in sin) it will restore sacrifice and burnt offering (in sin) this world will collapse and a leader will come out of rome who will make a 7 year covenant with many (what kind of covenant is unknown although many guess) but in the middle of that week. He will enter the new jewish temple and place an abominable object in the holy place. The people will see it. God gave it as an sig of what is to come. and then their will be great tribulation such as has not been seen before or after.
At the end of that tribulation. Something is going to occure that is so great all life on earth would die if not stopped. In which case, The lord returned. The kings of the earth see him in the clouds. He gathers his elect. And he puts and end to the evil that we have been committing.
This great tribulation, also called the time of Jacobs trouble. Brings israel to repentance. Puts an end to the time of the gentile rule over Israel and Jerusalem. God restores israel to her land because she repented. He sets up his kingdom in the temple they built. And he rules the world with a rod of Iron for a thousand years.
all the details are sketchy, god has given us som in the OT prophets and revelation of what will happen in those days. But we know thsee particular items will happen..
Jesus said there will be wars and rumors of wars. Thats been going on for 2000 years now
He said nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, Again, thats been going on for 2000 years now
He said there will be earthquakes in various places. Disease Famine etc etc. Those have been going on since the begining of time. But anyone who watches the news can see these things are getting more severe, More numerous, and greater in intensity especially the last 100 years
But these are the begining of sorrows. the end is not yet.
It will build a temple (in sin) it will restore sacrifice and burnt offering (in sin) this world will collapse and a leader will come out of rome who will make a 7 year covenant with many (what kind of covenant is unknown although many guess) but in the middle of that week. He will enter the new jewish temple and place an abominable object in the holy place. The people will see it. God gave it as an sig of what is to come. and then their will be great tribulation such as has not been seen before or after.
At the end of that tribulation. Something is going to occure that is so great all life on earth would die if not stopped. In which case, The lord returned. The kings of the earth see him in the clouds. He gathers his elect. And he puts and end to the evil that we have been committing.
This great tribulation, also called the time of Jacobs trouble. Brings israel to repentance. Puts an end to the time of the gentile rule over Israel and Jerusalem. God restores israel to her land because she repented. He sets up his kingdom in the temple they built. And he rules the world with a rod of Iron for a thousand years.
all the details are sketchy, god has given us som in the OT prophets and revelation of what will happen in those days. But we know thsee particular items will happen..
Jesus said there will be wars and rumors of wars. Thats been going on for 2000 years now
He said nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, Again, thats been going on for 2000 years now
He said there will be earthquakes in various places. Disease Famine etc etc. Those have been going on since the begining of time. But anyone who watches the news can see these things are getting more severe, More numerous, and greater in intensity especially the last 100 years
But these are the begining of sorrows. the end is not yet.
so your saying a person performing a single animal sacrifice in a single building is the sign the greater tribulation has come.
And you don't believe that anything like that has already happened
Or you feal it must been seen by the whole world.
Yet Jesus was speaking to his disciples in Mathew 24 of what they would see.
your the one who said prophecy has nothing to do with parables so perhaps you could explain why
Here I'll help you out @Everlasting-Grace.
The parables of Jesus occupy the same space as the prophetic words of warning and promise to ancient Isreal
Here's a nice parable of prophecy in Isaiah
Blessings to you eg
I will pray you accept correction today
The parables of Jesus occupy the same space as the prophetic words of warning and promise to ancient Isreal
Here's a nice parable of prophecy in Isaiah
The Song of the Vineyard
5 I will sing for the one I love
a song about his vineyard:
My loved one had a vineyard
on a fertile hillside.
2 He dug it up and cleared it of stones
and planted it with the choicest vines.
He built a watchtower in it
and cut out a winepress as well.
Then he looked for a crop of good grapes,
but it yielded only bad fruit.
3 “Now you dwellers in Jerusalem and people of Judah,
judge between me and my vineyard.
4 What more could have been done for my vineyard
than I have done for it?
When I looked for good grapes,
why did it yield only bad?
5 Now I will tell you
what I am going to do to my vineyard:
I will take away its hedge,
and it will be destroyed;
I will break down its wall,
and it will be trampled.
6 I will make it a wasteland,
neither pruned nor cultivated,
and briers and thorns will grow there.
I will command the clouds
not to rain on it.”
Blessings to you eg
I will pray you accept correction todayNo. I am saying a person who puts an abominable object in the holy place that everyone sees it standing there, is the sign.so your saying a person performing a single animal sacrifice in a single building is the sign the greater tribulation has come.
This is what Jesus said.
I know it has not. Not only because it was not possible for everyone to see until the advent of TV and video. But there has been no temple for it to happen in since AD 70And you don't believe that anything like that has already happened
Jesus said, Let the reader understand. When you SEE the abomination of desolation STANDING in the holy place....
So who is the reader?
No, He did not tell them what they would see. He spoke to the reader.. those alive in that day.
A parable is describing a spiritual truth with symbols
A prophecy is telling us literal events that will happen.
Do you struggle to see the difference? We can try to dig deeper if so.
lolHere I'll help you out @Everlasting-Grace.
The parables of Jesus occupy the same space as the prophetic words of warning and promise to ancient Isreal
Here's a nice parable of prophecy in Isaiah
The Song of the Vineyard5 I will sing for the one I lovea song about his vineyard:My loved one had a vineyardon a fertile hillside.2 He dug it up and cleared it of stonesand planted it with the choicest vines.He built a watchtower in itand cut out a winepress as well.Then he looked for a crop of good grapes,but it yielded only bad fruit.3 “Now you dwellers in Jerusalem and people of Judah,judge between me and my vineyard.4 What more could have been done for my vineyardthan I have done for it?When I looked for good grapes,why did it yield only bad?5 Now I will tell youwhat I am going to do to my vineyard:I will take away its hedge,and it will be destroyed;I will break down its wall,and it will be trampled.6 I will make it a wasteland,neither pruned nor cultivated,and briers and thorns will grow there.I will command the cloudsnot to rain on it.”
Blessings to you eg
See what happened there?
He spoke of something literal that would happen?
this is a prophecy not a parable.
it was not explaining a spiritual truth, it was telling us something God would do (and did)
Accept correction? I am free to accept it if I am corrected..
oh so you see no parable in that prophecy, well ok let's see you search the scriptures why that may be true again then
I mean in order to learn you must search the scripture to see if someone else is right and not wrong.
I take it you know this is a better way to search the scriptures
Hi Everlasting-Grace,
Consider the following quote by Dr Thomas Ice, with which I fairly agree...
...he starts out talking about the parables in Matthew 24, but his comment expands on it a little further (beyond just the ones in the Olivet Discourse):
[quoting Thomas Ice]
"Five Parabolic Illustrations
"[re: Matt24] These parables or illustrations of Jesus are as follows: First, the fig tree illustration (24:32- 35); second, the days of Noah illustration (24:36- 39); third, a comparison of two men and women illustration (24:40- 41); fourth, the faithful house holder illustration (24:42- 44); and fifth, the wise servant illustration (24:45- 51).
"These five parables are important lessons that relate to Israel. In fact, I would go so far as to say that all the parables in the New Testament relate directly to Israel. Often they relate to Israel's rejection of Jesus as their Messiah and speak of consequences that will flow from such an act. Christ told His disciples in Matthew 13:10-17 that He would speak to "this people" (Israel) in order to blind them to the truth because of their rejection of Jesus as the Messiah. However, believers could come to understand the meaning of His parables because we are receptive of the revelation offered by Christ. Therefore, they all relate to Israel in some way, shape, or form and usually tell us something about God's plan for the future.
"The parables within the Olivet Discourse, when they speak of a coming, all relate to the second coming and not the rapture of the church. This is true because the entire Olivet Discourse was given to Israel and relates to her tribulation and Christ's return at the end of that period. Truths relating to the rapture of the church are revealed exclusively in the New Testament Epistles, which were written specifically for the purpose of explaining the intent and nature of the Church age. [...]"
--Dr Thomas Ice [commentary on Matt24-25]
[end quoting; bold and underline mine]
Here you go @Everlasting-Grace why Christians will be present the whole time of the great tribulation
But I bet nobody has shown you.
It also goes with the parable of prophecy i showed you but understand the great tribulation in bold
Isaiah 55:10-13
10 As the rain and the snow
come down from heaven,
and do not return to it
without watering the earth
and making it bud and flourish,
so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,
11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
12 You will go out in joy
and be led forth in peace;
the mountains and hills
will burst into song before you,
and all the trees of the field
will clap their hands.
13 Instead of the thornbush will grow the juniper,
and instead of briers the myrtle will grow.
This will be for the Lord’s renown,
for an everlasting sign,
that will endure forever.”
Ok search the translations and see what else in bold translates to
But I bet nobody has shown you.
It also goes with the parable of prophecy i showed you but understand the great tribulation in bold
Isaiah 55:10-13
10 As the rain and the snow
come down from heaven,
and do not return to it
without watering the earth
and making it bud and flourish,
so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,
11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
12 You will go out in joy
and be led forth in peace;
the mountains and hills
will burst into song before you,
and all the trees of the field
will clap their hands.
13 Instead of the thornbush will grow the juniper,
and instead of briers the myrtle will grow.
This will be for the Lord’s renown,
for an everlasting sign,
that will endure forever.”
Ok search the translations and see what else in bold translates to
What parable. what spiritual truth was the person trying to share?
It also helps us to understand the defenition of things.I mean in order to learn you must search the scripture to see if someone else is right and not wrong.
I take it you know this is a better way to search the scriptures
A prophecy is God saying what will happen. Take for example the prophecy of Daniel 2. God showed daniel about gentile kingdoms which will rule of Israel
He used symbols
1. head of Gold
2. Chest and arms of Silver
3. Belly and thighs of Bronze
4. Legs of Iron and feet of iron of clay
these symbols represented literal kingdoms
1. Babylon (daniel even told nebechadnezzer he was the head of gold)
2. Media persia
3. Greece
4. Rome
these kingdoms were real kingdoms, and each of them ruled over Jerusalem. and the last kingdom (the feet of iron and clay) will rule again, and it will be this kingdom that will be crushed by the return of christ.
This is prophecy
A parable is using symbols to explain a spiritual truth.
Jesus tells us why
11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the [a]mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:
‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.’
an example
31 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and sowed in his field, 32 which indeed is the least of all the seeds; but when it is grown it is greater than the herbs and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and nest in its branches.”
now, what event is Jesus prophesying will happen in this parable? Nothing, Because it is not a prophecy.
it explains a spiritual truth. it explains what the kingdom of heaven is like..
you can read the word all you want. If you do not understand defenitions and what things are. You will not understand what you are reading
Prophecy speaks of events that will happen.so spiritual truth has nothing to do with prophecy
what part of this do you fail to understand?
A spiritual truth is something that has been true forever.
what part of this do you fail to understand?
This is a good exampleHi Everlasting-Grace,
Consider the following quote by Dr Thomas Ice, with which I fairly agree...
...he starts out talking about the parables in Matthew 24, but his comment expands on it a little further (beyond just the ones in the Olivet Discourse):
[quoting Thomas Ice]
"Five Parabolic Illustrations
"[re: Matt24] These parables or illustrations of Jesus are as follows: First, the fig tree illustration (24:32- 35); second, the days of Noah illustration (24:36- 39); third, a comparison of two men and women illustration (24:40- 41); fourth, the faithful house holder illustration (24:42- 44); and fifth, the wise servant illustration (24:45- 51).
"These five parables are important lessons that relate to Israel. In fact, I would go so far as to say that all the parables in the New Testament relate directly to Israel. Often they relate to Israel's rejection of Jesus as their Messiah and speak of consequences that will flow from such an act. Christ told His disciples in Matthew 13:10-17 that He would speak to "this people" (Israel) in order to blind them to the truth because of their rejection of Jesus as the Messiah. However, believers could come to understand the meaning of His parables because we are receptive of the revelation offered by Christ. Therefore, they all relate to Israel in some way, shape, or form and usually tell us something about God's plan for the future.
"The parables within the Olivet Discourse, when they speak of a coming, all relate to the second coming and not the rapture of the church. This is true because the entire Olivet Discourse was given to Israel and relates to her tribulation and Christ's return at the end of that period. Truths relating to the rapture of the church are revealed exclusively in the New Testament Epistles, which were written specifically for the purpose of explaining the intent and nature of the Church age. [...]"
--Dr Thomas Ice [commentary on Matt24-25]
[end quoting; bold and underline mine]
He first prophecies of things that will happen.
he then switches to parables that explains these truths..
Here you go @Everlasting-Grace why Christians will be present the whole time of the great tribulation
But I bet nobody has shown you.
It also goes with the parable of prophecy i showed you but understand the great tribulation in bold
Isaiah 55:10-13
10 As the rain and the snow
come down from heaven,
and do not return to it
without watering the earth
and making it bud and flourish,
so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,
11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
12 You will go out in joy
and be led forth in peace;
the mountains and hills
will burst into song before you,
and all the trees of the field
will clap their hands.
13 Instead of the thornbush will grow the juniper,
and instead of briers the myrtle will grow.
This will be for the Lord’s renown,
for an everlasting sign,
that will endure forever.”
Ok search the translations and see what else in bold translates to
Is 55:
“Ho! Everyone who thirsts,
Come to the waters;
And you who have no money,
Come, buy and eat.
Yes, come, buy wine and milk
Without money and without price.
2 Why do you spend money for what is not bread,
And your wages for what does not satisfy?
Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good,
And let your soul delight itself in abundance.
3 Incline your ear, and come to Me.
Hear, and your soul shall live;
What does this have to do with the tribulation?
Correction, There was no abomination of desolation in ad 70, as you define it. I believe what happen to that temple, inside and out, was a COMPLETE desolation and there were MANY who saw it.