The Error of KJV-Onlyism

[Thunderrr-mental]

I apologize for responding so late once I came back on here suddenly my health dropped again and it seems it has made it where I spend most of my time in bed again in particular my stomach has been super sensative and eating is very hard my body has been through a lot but you know in a way it has been a blessing.

I believe I am going through a season of transition to explain and describe everything would take more time than I have the energy for but lets say my body is scary thin my stomach is always hurting having severe pain from just water I am constantly throwing up I am constantly weak and low on energy but in this time I have spent it speaking with God

I was reminded of a dream I had long ago where I was in a white pure place and I saw death himself I knew I was to follow him and we went into an elevator with two other men.

We reached a pure black place and death went to his desk the two men changed to my left I saw one so think and malnuruished on the right of me a man was suffering his agony and suffering cvoming like black smoke and I saw demons feeding off of his misery

I looked at death and ask when can I go to heaven? he responded saying you can't you have to stay here forever.

I remember thinking to myself that's odd I thought for sure I was on the right path I turned to death and said I think this is a test he looked up from his desk intruiged snd asked what kind of test do you think this is? I responded a test of my heart of my love and faith and with a fiery zeal I slapped my hand on his desk and yelled I choose to trust in Jesus Christ

I suddenly was on a very high pillar and there was a pool of living water at the bottom I heard a voice sing it's time to take a leap of fatih I jumped went into the pool and came up naked for some reason and I saw there other empty pools of living water as well and the dream ended.

I have been wondering if the two men were actually a representation of me

It's called a lying miracle friend that the bible teaches creatures of this world can do

These creatures can tap on to your ora which flows all around your body and can make you see things, more so when your filled with negative thoughts. I'm certain they can access the mind sometimes too and take your mind somewhere, whilst your body is lifeless, your mind can be taken

Because the mind has two parts to it

The outer conscious nd the inner conscience .


It's not your fault you had this dream and i would say it was a plot to make you get more depressed.

Or a lying miracle done to persecute you with afterwards. To keep flashing that image in your mind so you doubt God loves you.

It was a firey dart from the creatures of this world to pull you away

This is what I feal

 

[John146]

Well I guess we can be confident that if people would stick with the KJV we would never have aberrant and heretical groups starting.

Wait…

There is always going to be divisions within the body of Christ on doctrinal issues. Failure to rightly divide the word of truth leads to many errors.

 

[Cameron143]

Let’s understand something here, I believe Isaiah 20 is true in what it states. It is the rendering in the King James Bible.
But a prophet being naked is not the same thing as being a prostitute.
God telling Hosea to marry a practicing prostitute would be a violation of God's goodness and ways.
Yet, this is the belief pushed by Modern scholars, many Christians, and select Bible translations.
The King James Bible does not express to us about God telling Hosea to marry a prostitute.

Side Note:

As for Isaiah's nakedness: We do not know if he was allowed to cover his private parts or not. The chapter makes more of a big deal of the exposing of his buttox.

God had Joseph sold into slavery and imprisoned. Was that an example of His goodness? God had Paul in peril and prison? Was that an example of His ways? God sent His own Son to suffer and die? Goodness? Way?
God often had his servants endure things in such a way as to reflect truths about and to His people. He still does. I suggest you know less of God's character and ways than you imagine.

 

[Dino246]

There is always going to be divisions within the body of Christ on doctrinal issues. Failure to rightly divide the word of truth leads to many errors.

Exactly… regardless of the translation used.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

To begin with, it is important to realize this command could be understood two different ways.
First, and more likely, this command could be one of anticipation. In other words, God may have
instructed Hosea to marry a woman who would later become unfaithful to him. The other possibility
is that the command was for Hosea to marry someone already known as a prostitute.

^^ That's what gotquestions has to say on the matter. Further:

The prophet Hosea was commanded to marry an unfaithful wife,
and this set up a model of Israel’s broken relationship with God.

But in your mind it is not possible God would command such an evil thing.

Did you ever address the fact that God had Isaiah naked for a few years?

Surely you see that as evil also?

Because it would contradict His Word.

1 Corinthians 6:13-17

13 "Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.​

14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.​

15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. ​

16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.​

17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit."​

Deuteronomy 23:17-18

17 "There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel. ​

18 Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a dog, into the house of the LORD thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the LORD thy God."​

​

Why do you think Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed?

The sin of Sodomy. Those who surrounded Lot's house in what they wanted to do to him.
So if it is an abomination to God the sodomite, then so who is the whore or harlot. Granted, God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But God knows who will repent and those who will not repent.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

God had Joseph sold into slavery and imprisoned. Was that an example of His goodness? God had Paul in peril and prison? Was that an example of His ways? God sent His own Son to suffer and die? Goodness? Way?
God often had his servants endure things in such a way as to reflect truths about and to His people. He still does. I suggest you know less of God's character and ways than you imagine.

I am not new to the Bible. I am deeply aware of these situations in His Word.
Suffering evil for God's cause is good according to God. A person is not condoning evil by suffering evil while one remains to be good despite the evil being done to them. Also, the sacrifice was foretold and was to save mankind. Also, God the Father is not bound by the murder laws otherwise He could not take anyone's life. We see in Scripture of God commanding the Israelites to even take life. But a person desiring to take life on their own would be murder. But God commanding Hosea to marry a practicing prostitute (as taught by Modern scholars) is not only a violation of His own words (1 Cor. 6:13-17; Deut. 23:17-18), it would mean there would be no actual standard to His morality or goodness. In addition, not all sins are the same; Certain sins are abominations to God, and harlotry and sodomy are two of them. Why do you think God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah?

 

[Dino246]

In addition, Wescott rejected the infallibility of the scripture.
View attachment 259469 View attachment 259469
http://www.westcotthort.com/books/Arthur_Westcott_-

There is nothing wrong with rejecting a specific word (which is what Westcott did here) while embracing the underlying principle. He says plainly (if you understand how to parse the punctuation), "at present, I find the presumption in favour of the absolute truth of Holy Scripture overwhelming." That is quite different to "rejecting the infallibility of Scripture". Of course, treating other people's words with care takes effort and it's so much easier to throw a strawman argument, especially when it is sensational.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

you are confusing yourself about the timing of Gomers harlotry.

Its on you. First you say she isnt then she is. Whoredom and playing the harlot are pretty much the same thing. Prostitution.

Going after idols is prostuting oneself because people say they prefer money or Mammon or whatever instead of God. They worship for the money, not with love in their hearts.

Why cant you see it. OT times were dfferent from NT. God was making a point about Israel. Of course God doesnt want believers to do that, because of what Hosea learned through his marriage to Gomer. People still do it anyway, but its a warning.

Scripture is not saying Hosea ever fornicated with Gomer. Gomer was the unfaithful one, Hosea was not. Gomer didnt have to agree to anything, she just married Hosea, like so many unbelievers still do, deceiving him and not intending to stay faithful.

Idolatry is spiritual whoredom and it is not the same as the actual sin of harlotry or prostitution (Although it is a spiritual type of idolatry). If one commits the sin of fornication, they sin against their own body. This is not the case with idolatry.

1 Corinthians 6:18
"Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body."

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

There is nothing wrong with rejecting a specific word (which is what Westcott did here) while embracing the underlying principle. He says plainly (if you understand how to parse the punctuation), "at present, I find the presumption in favour of the absolute truth of Holy Scripture overwhelming." That is quite different to "rejecting the infallibility of Scripture". Of course, treating other people's words with care takes effort and it's so much easier to throw a strawman argument, especially when it is sensational.

Throughout Scripture, we see warnings of how we are not to add or subtract from His Word.

Deuteronomy 4:2
"Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you."

 

[Dino246]

Because it would contradict His Word.

This one verse should be enough to put your whole argument out to pasture.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Further, you have not responded to my post 1218, wherein I posted the following:

Hosea 1:2 KJV The beginning of the word of the Lord by Hosea. And the Lord said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the Lord.

"whoredoms", Strong's Dictionary:
2183 (Hebrew form), zanuwn, zawnoon, from 2181; adultery fig. idolatry:--whoredom.

You seem to have glossed over that word "adultery" in favour of your more 'palatable' selection, 'idolatry' which is only a figurative meaning.

Further still, you have not addressed my later post where I questioned you treatment of idolatry as less serious a sin than adultery. The question stands until addressed.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Well I guess we can be confident that if people would stick with the KJV we would never have aberrant and heretical groups starting.

Wait…

Before the Modern Bible movement took hold here in America in the 1960s (which was coincidentally the same time they took KJV Bible teaching out of public schools), primarily liberal groups were known to use the Modern Bibles. This is documented well by David Cloud's articles and PDFs at WayofLife.org. Modern Textual Criticism came at a time when other new biblical cults were forming.

Just because Textual Criticism is disguised by the cloak of respected Modern scholarship and respected schools, it just gets a pass that it's not a problem and is actually good. But one is not examining these practices in light of Scripture. People just see the fancy degrees and hear the fancy words and they are impressed and taken over.

 

[Dino246]

Throughout Scripture, we see warnings of how we are not to add or subtract from His Word.

Deuteronomy 4:2
"Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you."

Irrelevant. Completely.

 

[Dino246]

Before the Modern Bible movement took hold here in America in the 1960s (which was coincidentally the same time they took KJV Bible teaching out of public schools), primarily liberal groups were known to use the Modern Bibles. This is documented well by David Cloud's articles and PDFs at WayofLife.org. Modern Textual Criticism came at a time when other new biblical cults were forming.

Just because Textual Criticism is disguised by the cloak of respected Modern scholarship and respected schools, it just gets a pass that it's not a problem and is actually good. But one is not examining these practices in light of Scripture.

Do your freaking homework and don't dodge the obvious with red herrings.

 

[Cameron143]

I am not new to the Bible. I am deeply aware of these situations in His Word.
Suffering evil for God's cause is good according to God. A person is not condoning evil by suffering evil while one remains to be good despite the evil being done to them. Also, the sacrifice was foretold and was to save mankind. Also, God the Father is not bound by the murder laws otherwise He could not take anyone's life. We see in Scripture of God commanding the Israelites to even take life. But a person desiring to take life on their own would be murder. But God commanding Hosea to marry a practicing prostitute (as taught by Modern scholars) is not only a violation of His own words (1 Cor. 6:13-17; Deut. 23:17-18), it would mean there would be no actual standard to His morality or goodness. In addition, not all sins are the same; Certain sins are abominations to God, and harlotry and sodomy are two of them. Why do you think God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah?

If you need to begin by giving your credentials I'm assuming that your scholarship is insufficient in and of itself to give credence to your ideas. I'm also assuming you believe I've been twiddling my thumbs while you have been diligent.
That said, what you said is true, but not relevant to my point. I was not dealing with the suffering or hardships people endured. I was speaking to the character of God who requires it, and whether it is consistent with His ways. I believe it is. You don't.
I do think it's a reasonable position to believe as you do, but not for the reasons mentioned here. Many people who I respect hold or held the same position.

 

[Dino246]

Idolatry is spiritual whoredom and it is not the same as the actual sin of harlotry or prostitution (Although it is a spiritual type of idolatry). If one commits the sin of fornication, they sin against their own body. This is not the case with idolatry.

1 Corinthians 6:18
"Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body."

God treats idolatry as the more serious sin... by far. The Northern ten tribes weren't scattered to the nations because of physical adultery.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

This one verse should be enough to put your whole argument out to pasture.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

I am not new to these kinds of debates. Pretty much if you can think of an argument, I have most likely heard it before and have offered sufficient rebuttals with Scripture. I discussed Scripture on various different Christian forums from 2010-2011. Over the years, I have run into High Calvinists who believe Isaiah 45:7 refers to how God directly creates evil like sin and the devil, etcetera. Yet, 1 John 1:5 says there is no darkness in God. God is good (Mark 10:18). God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man (James 1:13).

Anyway, in Isaiah 45:7, the word "evil" is an archaic word that comes from the King James Bible. In this context and meaning, it is about "calamity or misfortune." God did not create Satan out of thin air, and neither did God create sin at the outset of the six-day creation. These things were not a part of His good creation. God allowed free moral agents to make choices that could either be bad or good that would be on their own heads.

Further, you have not responded to my post 1218, wherein I posted the following:

Hosea 1:2 KJV The beginning of the word of the Lord by Hosea. And the Lord said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the Lord.

Notice what the verse says. FOR THE LAND HAS COMMITTED GREAT WHOREDOM. Obviously the land is in reference to the people in general and they cannot all be prostitutes. Who would they do business with in the region?

Also, the verse says, children of whoredoms. Were the children also prostitutes? This seems highly unlikely; Especially seeing that there is no context or cross reference to support that conclusion.

"whoredoms", Strong's Dictionary:
2183 (Hebrew form), zanuwn, zawnoon, from 2181; adultery fig. idolatry:--whoredom.

Of course this is not an unbiased dictionary. You are quoting James Strong's work. He worked on the ASV, which is a part of the Modern Bible movement. While he did his concordance with the strong numbers for the KJB, he was clearly not a KJB bible defender while he did such works. Other unbiased dictionaries give us multiple definitions for this word that does not fit the narrative you want to be true.

Further still, you have not addressed my later post where I questioned you treatment of idolatry as less serious a sin than adultery. The question stands until addressed.

Deuteronomy 23:17-18.
1 Corinthians 6:13-16.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

God treats idolatry as the more serious sin... by far. The Northern ten tribes weren't scattered to the nations because of physical adultery.

Deuteronomy 23:17-18 says that the sins of harlotry and sodomy are abominations in His sight. Seeing we see that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by a miracle from Heaven, shows the depth of the seriousness of these sins. They are both sexual sins.

 

[Lanolin]

God is a a God of mercy as well as a God of judgement. Also remember, OT times was for Israel, they were not in Christ yet..they were still learning.

Hosea was married to Gomer, he was not the one fornicating with her. She was unfaithful, he was faithful, He was heartbroken, she didnt care.

He had to give her up but also woo her back and forgive her. Because God does that to, even with people who are not his people! Because he loves us while we were yet sinners. Thats what Jesus does!

Do you not understand. And I read all this from the KJV. I dont have to quote it all because you already know the words. But you also need to rightly divide scripture and not read the Bible backwards, which seems to be the main problem.

There is a reason why Genesis is the first book and Revelation is the last book in all Bibles. Not just KJV.

 

[Lanolin]

Deuteronomy 23:17-18 says that the sins of harlotry and sodomy are abominations in His sight. Seeing we see that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by a miracle from Heaven, shows the depth of the seriousness of these sins. They are both sexual sins.

and prostituion is the same as harlotry
yes it was a serious sin
Why did God tell Hosea to marry a sinful woman? You tell me.
Could it be ...a painful lesson to the nation of Israel or that it was to show that God could forgive a sinner?

You cant add to the Bible what isnt there and claim that Gomer had to make a vow to honor her husband when it was clear she did not. Its like saying Jacob had to love Leah when he really didnt love her as much as he did Rachel.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

If you need to begin by giving your credentials

You act like I am new to the Bible and so I was simply expressing that the things I was discussing are very familiar to me.

I'm assuming that your scholarship is insufficient in and of itself to give credence to your ideas. I'm also assuming you believe I've been twiddling my thumbs while you have been diligent.

This discussion is not furthered if one hurls insults at the other.
Let's stick to the topic at hand.

That said, what you said is true, but not relevant to my point. I was not dealing with the suffering or hardships people endured. I was speaking to the character of God who requires it, and whether it is consistent with His ways. I believe it is. You don't.

Uh, no. My reply shows that you did not understand where I am coming from and you assume false things about my position.

I do think it's a reasonable position to believe as you do, but not for the reasons mentioned here. Many people who I respect hold or held the same position.

God has to be consistent with His standard of morality. I believe you are conflating certain things God does and allows (like God being able to take life Himself of His own choosing, which to us would be murder), vs things He doesn’t allow; Yet you assume that this would be the same if God commanded one of His people to join with a whore, which would violate His own Words in Deuteronomy 23:17-18, and 1 Corinthians 6:13-16. God has made it clear that the sins of harlotry and sodomy are abominations in His sight. Yet, this gets a pass when God tells Hosea to marry a prostitute? Your belief is not consistent with the Scriptures or the good standard of God.