The Error of KJV-Onlyism

[Dino246]

I think there's an assumption that those who decided to use the KJV as their only English Bible do so because they are stupid and intellectually retarded.

I haven't seen any reason to think your assertion has any validity. I don't think for a second that KJV-only folks are, in general, "stupid and intellectually retarded".

However, some of the arguments (ideas) touted in favour of KJV-onlyism are stupid, and ideas are fair game for criticism.

 

[Mem]

That a limited number of scholars were given the opportunity as much as the authority to translate an "official" version of the bible does not make it the "only" acceptable version. That other versions are discouraged by any 'official' should give one pause as to the exactly the reason why. God did not "anoint" anyone to write except those He directed to "Write it in a book..." Everyone else merely carries, or translates from one place to another, the word from that point on, and I don't see why we should leave behind to be lost in the 17th century, just so an elite few can brag on of their perfect understanding of it (and yet are incapable of translating, or carrying it onto any other place)? The word is living water, ever flowing and intended for the healing of the nations, not only Jacobean England and their descendants.

 

[Blain]

Its always good to see your will to help friend, you've given some really good words to this thread,

we need you more than ever blain the spiritual forces of the enemy is worse than ever in the world,

This is for sure, to much is happening.

To much crime is going unchecked.

We are in tribulation friend but there is light for those who endure and fight,

We fight with our strength to be kind in theese dark times, and we ignore anything other than this kind nature.

Even in the face of the enemy where a kind word is not spoken, all we have to say well that's very kind of you say so.
Or I will take note thanks.

Or dont say anything at all

I've already ignored several posts to day but I may just go back and leave a blessing.

It might be a silent prayer as I don't need to say anything or write anything.

Just as I pray for you to be stronger than ever before and for God to give you the strength of Samson


You can see the fallen world here at cc more than ever to friend,

When you speak the words of the lord to some people here you can see how much there not over coming the spiritual forces of wickedness, they have a long way to go friend,

This is why need strong brothers like you who can endure friend.

But it's maybe better if you take part in threads where there is no such attempts to wage war on his kingdom as you need rebuilding, I sense friend.
There unkind words of the enemies hatred might be the words that push you over the edge or they might be the words that say well I'll just come back another time stronger than ever.

And spur my brothers on



This place I've noticed lately has become full of false prophets friend
Spreading the seed of doubt and baring false testimony of people's character.

Don't let them win by having them make you believe your at fault, even tho tho they be smart or intelligent,

Real intelligence comes from wisdom and insight from Him,

But it comes not once but every minutes every day as we seek his nature his wisdom his words friend.

It can't be a quick little bit of insight now in theese times.

we must seek like never before friend

and we will crush the forces of wickedness friend,

with all his avenging angels

and all his authority

I will become the brother

who will live in hostility with brothers

for you friend I will be like Ishmeal for you.

I apologize for responding so late once I came back on here suddenly my health dropped again and it seems it has made it where I spend most of my time in bed again in particular my stomach has been super sensative and eating is very hard my body has been through a lot but you know in a way it has been a blessing.

I believe I am going through a season of transition to explain and describe everything would take more time than I have the energy for but lets say my body is scary thin my stomach is always hurting having severe pain from just water I am constantly throwing up I am constantly weak and low on energy but in this time I have spent it speaking with God

I was reminded of a dream I had long ago where I was in a white pure place and I saw death himself I knew I was to follow him and we went into an elevator with two other men.

We reached a pure black place and death went to his desk the two men changed to my left I saw one so think and malnuruished on the right of me a man was suffering his agony and suffering cvoming like black smoke and I saw demons feeding off of his misery

I looked at death and ask when can I go to heaven? he responded saying you can't you have to stay here forever.

I remember thinking to myself that's odd I thought for sure I was on the right path I turned to death and said I think this is a test he looked up from his desk intruiged snd asked what kind of test do you think this is? I responded a test of my heart of my love and faith and with a fiery zeal I slapped my hand on his desk and yelled I choose to trust in Jesus Christ

I suddenly was on a very high pillar and there was a pool of living water at the bottom I heard a voice sing it's time to take a leap of fatih I jumped went into the pool and came up naked for some reason and I saw there other empty pools of living water as well and the dream ended.

I have been wondering if the two men were actually a representation of me

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

And I'm the silly one? It's amazing to see. The "only" in KJV will cause brothers to break fellowship and cause congregations to split. THAT should make believers pause. SMH.

We didn’t start this fight or split. Your side did. The King James Bible reigned supreme as the dominant Bible for hundreds of years until the Modern Bible Movement took hold. Here in America, the Westcott and Hort movement did not hit us until the 1960s when they also took Bible (KJV) teaching out of public schools.

Westcott and Hort created their Greek text in 1881. That is when the battle and split from your side began. You were the ones who departed from the established Bible that was good enough for Christians for centuries.

Oh, hey we are of the same mind. We believe and trust in the same things. We are on the same path! Praise God! Wait, what? You don't exclusively use the KJV!?!?.......You're dead to me.

Some may be that extreme. I wouldn’t say that. I would say it is a great spiritual danger not having a perfect Word of God as the Bible teaches. One could potentially fall away from the faith as a result. I am not saying it is going to happen, but Modern Bibles and Modern scholarship can lead folks astray to believe exceptionally wrong things.

 

[Dino246]

The King James Bible reigned supreme

Your choice of words is disturbing.

You were the ones who departed from the established Bible that was good enough for Christians for centuries.

Who is the "You" here? Anyone who disagrees with you? It looks like you're becoming paranoid about this.

 

[Kroogz]

I think there's an assumption that those who decided to use the KJV as their only English Bible do so because they are stupid and intellectually retarded.

Not my assumption. In fact, I believe they are way too intelligent to make a doctrine of the KJV itself, then tell others," you MUST also!"

We didn’t start this fight or split. Your side did. The King James Bible reigned supreme as the dominant Bible for hundreds of years until the Modern Bible Movement took hold. Here in America, the Westcott and Hort movement did not hit us until the 1960s when they also took Bible (KJV) teaching out of public schools.

Westcott and Hort created their Greek text in 1881. That is when the battle and split from your side began. You were the ones who departed from the established Bible that was good enough for Christians for centuries.



Some may be that extreme. I wouldn’t say that. I would say it is a great spiritual danger not having a perfect Word of God as the Bible teaches. One could potentially fall away from the faith as a result. I am not saying it is going to happen, but Modern Bibles and Modern scholarship can lead folks astray to believe exceptionally wrong things.

The KJV didn't cause a split. It is the "ONLY" that started it.

 

[Blain]

In other words @Blain I will become a wild donkey of a man for you 😊.

But not so wild that my swords will not be crossed, as they will be crossed for you friend. But not crossed for others.. nope they will get lash after lash, with a no surrender policy in place 😊

I am grateful for your support and how you speak as if my efforts and everything I have been going through because of it has meaning as my greatest fear and worry is that it was all for nothing that I believed and spoke in vain how often I ask him whay was the point what good did we do was it all just pointless I blame and attack myself a lot often asking if I was just deluded yes I believed I dared to believe in things that would surpase what we call faith the deeper depyjd of hid heart the hidden truth of his being his kingdom I encountered him saw many visions which I have openly spoken on here in fact I willingly recieved all the doubt all the attacks all the name calling because his kingdom who he really is the the trhing he allowed me to experience and know I spoke on here freely it is no secret I always say I am an open book and based on what I say and how I respond I am sure many can easiliy see this.

I don't see the point in hiding anything and I only hope that for every suffering for everything I have to deal with in life will be a testimony of him otherwise my entire life has been a waste I went through utter hell for nothing.

But I am not one who is strong on their own I actually find strength through the strength of others not the other way around I know there are true prophets but something I asked God last night was if these prophets were listening to him why couldn't they hear me?

I was in bed my heart crying out echoinh words I could not express the pain the unfairness the abandomnent the the deep inner damage and sores that at this point I don't know if they can be healed yet there is a fire in me still I was never able to truly give up but surely God would have let someone know what I was going through surely these people who claim to know his voice would have listened to him.

But not a single one not a single person heard him and I highly doubt he didn't speak to people about it. as I always say the spirit speaks to the spirit

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Yea but he wasn't.

Nobody was saying Hosea fornicated before marrying Gomer.

Not reading into it what YOU seem to be reading it.

Hosea is the man of God. Gomer was his wife to marry. Textual Critics, certain Modern Translations, and most Christians (I have encountered) believe that God was telling Hosea to marry Gomer who was already a prostitute. This runs contrary to what the King James Bible teaches.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

The KJV didn't cause a split. It is the "ONLY" that started it.

No. You don’t know Bible history. Again, Modern scholars and their new texts came later causing the division. Without these new spurious texts that were not seen elsewhere in history and which have corrupt doctrines, there would be no division. English-speaking Christians before the 1800s were unified by one text.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Your choice of words is disturbing.

Why would it be disturbing to you in the reality that the King James Bible reigned supreme in history? It’s God’s word.

Who is the "You" here? Anyone who disagrees with you? It looks like you're becoming paranoid about this.

Folks are following a new movement that came out after the King James Bible already was established for centuries. So if they join that movement that began with Westcott and Hort, they are joining with what these two men started. They were against the TR and the KJV and others followed in their footsteps up until today.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

The book of Hosea isn't scripture?
I went way past a scripture or passage. I gave you a whole book. Not my fault you don't understand it. Especially since I connected all the dots for you.

Please provide verse number citations for your belief on what the book of Hosea says. In other words, you are summarizing what Scripture says in your own words and you are not quoting Scripture. Someone can come to false conclusions about a book in the Bible. So the burden of proof is on you to prove your case with Scripture.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Any relationship that God has with fallen man is a relationship with to a harlot. The whole book is a love story about a man who enters into a relationship with someone who is unworthy to be in relationship with him. Despite having taken her away from the degradation of her past life and offering a life of peace and joy, she returns to her former ways. Because of his great love for her, he humbles himself and pays all that is necessary to get her back.
This is a picture of what God has done in relationship to mankind; first with Israel, and now with all mankind. Since it is an OT story, it is indicative first of Israel, and secondarily, of all mankind.
The scripture is the book itself. It is actual history. But it is also an allegory relating primarily God's relationship with Israel. I can't make you accept this, but it's the correct understanding.
What do you think God is teaching through the book?

The text says,

“The beginning of the word of the Lord by Hosea. And the Lord said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the Lord.” (Hosea 1:2).

Read this above verse. Notice what it says. Hosea was being told to take a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms.

It seems highly unlikely that the children here were prostitutes. Whoredoms is a reference to idolatry.

 

[fredoheaven]

We didn’t start this fight or split. Your side did. The King James Bible reigned supreme as the dominant Bible for hundreds of years until the Modern Bible Movement took hold. Here in America, the Westcott and Hort movement did not hit us until the 1960s when they also took Bible (KJV) teaching out of public schools.

Westcott and Hort created their Greek text in 1881. That is when the battle and split from your side began. You were the ones who departed from the established Bible that was good enough for Christians for centuries.



Some may be that extreme. I wouldn’t say that. I would say it is a great spiritual danger not having a perfect Word of God as the Bible teaches. One could potentially fall away from the faith as a result. I am not saying it is going to happen, but Modern Bibles and Modern scholarship can lead folks astray to believe exceptionally wrong things.

In addition, Wescott rejected the infallibility of the scripture.

http://www.westcotthort.com/books/Arthur_Westcott_-

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

No, it isn't. It's a simple metaphor, which I have explained. You have either ignored or rejected the plain sense and made up a fantasy.

1 Help, Lord; for the godly man ceaseth; for the faithful fail from among the children of men.

The subject of this verse is "the godly man" and "the faithful".

2 They speak vanity every one with his neighbour: with flattering lips and with a double heart do they speak.

The "they" here implies everyone else; the godless.

3 The Lord shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things:

4 Who have said, With our tongue will we prevail; our lips are our own: who is lord over us?

The godless have said such things.

5 For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the Lord; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him.

The first and last "him" here refer to "the poor" and "the needy". What will the Lord do? Set them in safety from the godless.

6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

God just spoke in verse 5. This verse tells us the certainty of His words (words, specific, not word, general).

7 Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

The "them" here is a clear reference back to "the poor" and "the needy" from verse 5, whom the Lord will "set in safety". God will certainly preserve "the poor" and "the needy" from "this [godless] generation forever."

8 The wicked walk on every side, when the vilest men are exalted.

This verse is a summary on the state of things; odd to our modern English ears, but not uncommon in the Psalms.


If we claim that the "them" of verse 7 refers to 'the words of the Lord', the whole Psalm is disjointed as verses 6 and 7 are out of context. If it refers to "the poor" and "the needy", the whole Psalm makes sense. The Lord spoke in verse 5; verse 6 reinforces the certainty of His words, and verse 7 gives their application. Simple, plain, logical, and specific.

Psalms 12:5 (KJV) says of the oppressed godly man “…saith the Lord, I will set him in safety…” 12:6 says God’s words are pure (true), and 12:7 says He keeps (performs) them forever. Deliverance of the godly is stressed, but that’s only an object of God’s words ensuring deliverance (and our very existence), and the main emphasis is on what “saith the Lord,” His words that promise deliverance. 12:7 stresses God keeping and preserving “them,” His words certifying His care of the righteous, not only in David’s time, but forever. The declared eternal preservation emphasizes the written form of His words certifying deliverance of the righteous today and forever.

It’s said 12:7 “them” is 12:5 people, but “them” loses its certainty of meaning if it’s separated from its immediate antecedent “words” in 12:6, for if people were meant, the text would confuse the pronoun reference (12:6 shifts the emphasis from people to words). Those who say “them” is people dismiss the antecedent factor, saying gender discord denies a reference to “words,” for in 12:7 “them” (verb suffix) is masculine, and 12:6 “words” (substantive) is feminine. Hebrew pronouns & antecedents usually agree in gender, but Gesenius says, masculine suffixes (especially in the plural) are not infrequently used to refer to feminine substantives.(1) Waltke & O’Connor say, The masculine pronoun is often used for a feminine antecedent.(2) Dr. T. Strouse, Emmanuel Baptist Seminary, CT notes normal gender discord in Ps.119:111,129, 152, 167.(3) God’s Words, “testimonies” (f), link to “they/them” (m) [The present writer views this as designed gender discord (4) relating our need of God’s Word for sustenance (f) to His power as provider (m), which is how churches relate to Christ by His Word]. Examples of common gender discord are “midwives” in Ex.1:21, “daughters” in Is.3:16 and “wells” [f] in Gen.26:15 that are antecedents to masculine “them.”

Hebrew gender discord is fairly common, but antecedent discord is not, as needed to avoid much confusion of sense. And in Hebrew, passage sense takes precedence over grammar issues like gender discord,(2) and the Psalm 12:6,7 sense ties “them” to “words” in the immediate context.*

Source
(From a poster in the comments section)

 

[Cameron143]

Please provide verse number citations for your belief on what the book of Hosea says. In other words, you are summarizing what Scripture says in your own words and you are not quoting Scripture. Someone can come to false conclusions about a book in the Bible. So the burden of proof is on you to prove your case with Scripture.

Sure, it's my summary. But it is what the book is teaching. I asked you what you believe it teaches. No answer.
You say I don't offer scripture. I offer the entire book. Show me from the book where I am wrong.
God told Abraham to leave his father's home. Should I say that didn't happen because he was supposed to honor his father and mother? God told Joshua and other leaders to kill entire peoples. Should I believe that didn't happen because God says do not kill? Should I believe God didn't swear by Himself to Abraham because we are told not to swear an oath?

 

[Cameron143]

The text says,

“The beginning of the word of the Lord by Hosea. And the Lord said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the Lord.” (Hosea 1:2).

Read this above verse. Notice what it says. Hosea was being told to take a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms.

It seems highly unlikely that the children here were prostitutes. Whoredoms is a reference to idolatry.

Sure. Did he marry Gomer? Was she a prostitute?

 

[Lanolin]

Hosea is the man of God. Gomer was his wife to marry. Textual Critics, certain Modern Translations, and most Christians (I have encountered) believe that God was telling Hosea to marry Gomer who was already a prostitute. This runs contrary to what the King James Bible teaches.

No, she wasn't already a prostitute but she was promiscuous. Whoredom can mean both idolatry and sexual immorality.
Gomer wasn't faithful in other words to Israel's God. And Hosea already knew that, cos God told him so.

There are other harlots in the Bible who married into the Jewish lineage- Rahab and Tamar are two.

Also, Ruth was from Moab and they had fallen into idolatry but she made a vow before she married (to Naomi's God) and Boaz and he could see she was virtuous. Israelites had previously married Moabites. (They were children of incest - Lot had children with his own daughters) Don't confuse Ruth and Boaz's story with Hosea and Gomer.

 

[Lanolin]

It seems to me people are deliberately setting up strawmen to make each other look silly.

KJV-onlyiers believe everyone else is ignorant
and anti-KJVers believe KJV-onlyers are crazy.

Even people who both read the KJV can't agree with each other. But that just happens on BDF because...? Everyone is proud and wants to pass the Bible exam at the end of the age right?

1 Corinthians 1:27 might be appropriate here.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Sure, it's my summary. But it is what the book is teaching. I asked you what you believe it teaches. No answer.

No answer with those Scripture verses, either.

You say I don't offer scripture. I offer the entire book. Show me from the book where I am wrong.

It’s not my responsibility to prove your case. You need to prove your case with Scripture so we can discuss it.

God told Abraham to leave his father's home. Should I say that didn't happen because he was supposed to honor his father and mother? God told Joshua and other leaders to kill entire peoples. Should I believe that didn't happen because God says do not kill? Should I believe God didn't swear by Himself to Abraham because we are told not to swear an oath?

Right. These are specific things that can be looked up in Scripture. You are speaking in generality of an entire book in the Bible.

So no Bible verse or passage proving your case, and I will move on assuming you do not actually have any verses backing up your claims.

 

[Cameron143]

No answer with those Scripture verses, either.



It’s not my responsibility to prove your case. You need to prove your case with Scripture so we can discuss it.



Right. These are specific things that can be looked up in Scripture. You are speaking in generality of an entire book in the Bible.

So no Bible verse or passage proving your case, and I will move on assuming you do not actually have any verses backing up your claims.

What are you talking about? I offer an entire book of scripture, break down the symbolism, you say it's wrong but offer no evidence as to why except that God wouldn't do that. I answered your objection showing you from scripture where He has in a number of instances. And I showed you that she was a prostitute and they did get married.
Hosea understood what God said. You certainly don't demonstrate that you understand.
I am interested, though, what you believe God is teaching in the book of Hosea. Share or don't share. Up to you.