The Security Of The Believer
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This cherry picking and then saying things that are not written. We who abide in Christ do not sin. What does He mean? Now he (John) claimed that no child of God is going to sin. Sinneth is in the present tense which normally emphasizes the continuing nature of an action. As 1:8 up to 2:1 teaches, believers may commit a act of sin but an individual genuinely born of God will not make it a continued practice. The flip is also true. No one who continually sins has come to know God in a permanent relationship. Yeah the secret for overcoming is abiding in Christ. I am not auditioning for Salvation.
A post above about obedience... its so silly. Well Christ hit you with "obedience" the moment He found us? We just loved and new Jesus when He found us? When did Christ say to the 12 if you love me keep my words? They had lived and breathed with Him for how long before He said this? Look all of them, when they took Christ all left Him and Peter he denies even knowing Jesus, swearing oaths and cursing himself if he is lying. Oops guess he was lost form the start. Then Christ never talked to him about it..what sin? Yet do you love me 3 times.
It gets so silly the word friends is not like you think. So if your friend decides not to do what you asked are they then no longer your friend? Its not a one way street here you don't understand who is talking. He is inviting you to be friends and into a relationship. This is not like we think of friends here on earth. I can't love this world and love God. Well take Abraham before all the testing God had already chosen him. Yet 25 years when by? I am a friend of God so what did He tell me to obey? Love one another...greater love has no man then he lay his life down one for another. Some take the word OBEY crank in the 10 commandments and toss in the law for fun and then add it all the NT on and on burden after burden. Love one another as I have loved you. That does not happen allot of times here yet we are obeying Him..
A post above about obedience... its so silly. Well Christ hit you with "obedience" the moment He found us? We just loved and new Jesus when He found us? When did Christ say to the 12 if you love me keep my words? They had lived and breathed with Him for how long before He said this? Look all of them, when they took Christ all left Him and Peter he denies even knowing Jesus, swearing oaths and cursing himself if he is lying. Oops guess he was lost form the start. Then Christ never talked to him about it..what sin? Yet do you love me 3 times.
It gets so silly the word friends is not like you think. So if your friend decides not to do what you asked are they then no longer your friend? Its not a one way street here you don't understand who is talking. He is inviting you to be friends and into a relationship. This is not like we think of friends here on earth. I can't love this world and love God. Well take Abraham before all the testing God had already chosen him. Yet 25 years when by? I am a friend of God so what did He tell me to obey? Love one another...greater love has no man then he lay his life down one for another. Some take the word OBEY crank in the 10 commandments and toss in the law for fun and then add it all the NT on and on burden after burden. Love one another as I have loved you. That does not happen allot of times here yet we are obeying Him..
The perspective you've presented aligns with the Reformed theological position commonly known as "Perseverance of the Saints" or "Eternal Security." This view holds that those who are truly saved, having accepted God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ, are eternally secure in their salvation. The sealing of the Holy Spirit is a key aspect of this belief. Here are some relevant Bible verses:
- Ephesians 4:30 (ESV): "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption."
This verse is often cited to support the idea that the Holy Spirit seals believers until the day of redemption, signifying the ultimate and secure completion of their salvation. - John 10:27-29 (ESV): "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand."
This passage emphasizes the security of believers in Christ, highlighting the impossibility of anyone or anything separating them from God's love. - Romans 8:38-39 (ESV): "For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord."
This verse underscores the inseparability of believers from the love of God, providing assurance of eternal security.
Is there anyone on this forum who considers themselves to be saved and believes that they no longer sin? Please raise your hand so that I may ignore all future comments that you make! Being saved does not mean that you no longer sin. We all sin every day in ways that we don't even realize at the time it occurs.
Being saved does not mean that we have been perfected. Sanctification will continue until the Day that the Lord returns. However, if we continue to to sin without repentance, we need to consider that we were never saved to begin with (we lied to ourselves). Peter denied Christ, but later wept.... Don't you think he wept many times because of this!
When we go to church and partake of the Lord's supper, are we not issued a warning not to partake if we have sinned without repentance? How could we sin if indeed we are saved? I do not believe people who are saved cease to sin. However, if we do sin, we have an advocate with the Father – Jesus Christ.
We must continually repent and ask for forgiveness, and increased strength to overcome our sin. We continue to be sanctified throughout our entire life. We will not be perfected until He returns.
That does not mean that we are no longer saved! It means that we are not yet fully perfected.
Being saved does not mean that we have been perfected. Sanctification will continue until the Day that the Lord returns. However, if we continue to to sin without repentance, we need to consider that we were never saved to begin with (we lied to ourselves). Peter denied Christ, but later wept.... Don't you think he wept many times because of this!
When we go to church and partake of the Lord's supper, are we not issued a warning not to partake if we have sinned without repentance? How could we sin if indeed we are saved? I do not believe people who are saved cease to sin. However, if we do sin, we have an advocate with the Father – Jesus Christ.
We must continually repent and ask for forgiveness, and increased strength to overcome our sin. We continue to be sanctified throughout our entire life. We will not be perfected until He returns.
That does not mean that we are no longer saved! It means that we are not yet fully perfected.
From my perspective, I see you as agreeing with uncle-mike.
I see semantics. Loss of salvation or really not saved.........Because of works or obedience. Both are based on works.
Not really saved, based on obedience.
Loss of salvation, based on obedience.
Grace~~Saved by grace and eternally secure.PERIOD. To be frank, we can go to heaven as loser believers or winner believers. It's our choice.
The new nature cannot sin. The new nature always obeys and abides. the new nature is perfect in Christ. But if we quench or grieve the Spirit we are operating in the flesh. we are evil. we are of the devil. we are not obeying. we are worse than an unbeliever. Our faith is dead. we can't save ourselves from daily problems.Fill in the blank.
Believers , 1 John 1:9 to get back in fellowship and operating from our new creation in Christ.But, our salvation is never in question.
I see semantics. Loss of salvation or really not saved.........Because of works or obedience. Both are based on works.
Not really saved, based on obedience.
Loss of salvation, based on obedience.
Grace~~Saved by grace and eternally secure.PERIOD. To be frank, we can go to heaven as loser believers or winner believers. It's our choice.
The new nature cannot sin. The new nature always obeys and abides. the new nature is perfect in Christ. But if we quench or grieve the Spirit we are operating in the flesh. we are evil. we are of the devil. we are not obeying. we are worse than an unbeliever. Our faith is dead. we can't save ourselves from daily problems.Fill in the blank.
Believers , 1 John 1:9 to get back in fellowship and operating from our new creation in Christ.But, our salvation is never in question.
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Correct me if I am wrong brother.
To me it seems you are saying," If a believer does not obey, he really wasn't saved." So, losing the salvation they thought they had. Based upon their obedience or works/fruits.
If this is what you are saying. I see the same ultimate end in each "loss of salvation" and "not really saved." Both are dependent upon works to save.
I see many examples of believers in the Word that don't advance, make shipwreck of their faith, not making it to the promised land,sin unto death, not reigning with Him, dead faith, worse than unbelievers, handed over to satan. So, there are many believers who don't produce squat, yet are saved as if through fire. Some believers just do not obey.
To me it seems you are saying," If a believer does not obey, he really wasn't saved." So, losing the salvation they thought they had. Based upon their obedience or works/fruits.
If this is what you are saying. I see the same ultimate end in each "loss of salvation" and "not really saved." Both are dependent upon works to save.
I see many examples of believers in the Word that don't advance, make shipwreck of their faith, not making it to the promised land,sin unto death, not reigning with Him, dead faith, worse than unbelievers, handed over to satan. So, there are many believers who don't produce squat, yet are saved as if through fire. Some believers just do not obey.
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OSAS is darkness?
Hardly; we should be Very Careful about what we call God's Sound Doctrine, eh?
Amen, Biblically Speaking = "By Grace Through faith!" (Eph 2:8-9), Because of:
God's Sound Doctrine Of:
Christ's ALL-Sufficient Work On The Cross!
God's Eternal Salvation Is Also Very Sound Doctrine:
God's OPERATION On All New-born babes In Christ!
+ Updates: (of # 11) + (of #14)
+
God's Eternal Life Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance
Amen.
Hardly; we should be Very Careful about what we call God's Sound Doctrine, eh?
Amen, Biblically Speaking = "By Grace Through faith!" (Eph 2:8-9), Because of:
God's Sound Doctrine Of:
Christ's ALL-Sufficient Work On The Cross!
God's Eternal Salvation Is Also Very Sound Doctrine:
God's OPERATION On All New-born babes In Christ!
+ Updates: (of # 11) + (of #14)
+
God's Eternal Life Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance
Amen.
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My post before explained that. "lost the salvation they thought they had."
But the whole discussion is based upon us, as believers, judging someones salvation on our observance of their fruits/obedience. Which I think is very dangerous for us to do.
We cannot judge someones salvation based upon what we see. And His word clearly shows us that some believers do not obey. Do not advance after salvation. We can't judge someones salvation and say,"they were not really saved because they were or were not doing_______________. Because we might very well be judging someone who IS a child of God, but not advancing in His plan for them.
But the whole discussion is based upon us, as believers, judging someones salvation on our observance of their fruits/obedience. Which I think is very dangerous for us to do.
We cannot judge someones salvation based upon what we see. And His word clearly shows us that some believers do not obey. Do not advance after salvation. We can't judge someones salvation and say,"they were not really saved because they were or were not doing_______________. Because we might very well be judging someone who IS a child of God, but not advancing in His plan for them.
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I think this is where the contention lies. I agree with you. And much more, the new nature cannot sin. Not even once. But if we quench the Spirit or grieve the Spirit.......we are living in sin, we are out of the faith....... Believers never entered the promised land. Some believers made shipwreck of their faith. Some Believers won't reign with Him. Some believers die the sin unto death. Some sleep from not obeying. Some are handed over to satan.
Imo, the majority of us live out of the evil side of our flesh when we grieve or quench the Spirit.And not overt sin. The evil side of us wants to 'work' for God. And we all know what the Lord thinks of our good side. I did it for 10 years straight as a believer. And, IMO, this is worse than overt sinning......How dark is it if we think we are in the light?
Imo, the majority of us live out of the evil side of our flesh when we grieve or quench the Spirit.And not overt sin. The evil side of us wants to 'work' for God. And we all know what the Lord thinks of our good side. I did it for 10 years straight as a believer. And, IMO, this is worse than overt sinning......How dark is it if we think we are in the light?
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