The Security Of The Believer

[Romans34]

For many years people have debated the Biblical doctrine of Security. Some have called it “once in grace, always in grace”, others “once saved, always saved”. However it is referred to, the doctrine of “The Security of the Believer” is the teaching that when a person accepts the Grace of God (i.e., by repentance and faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ), that person experiences a re-birth. The ‘old’ man dies (as far as the spirit is concerned) and is reborn as a new creation in Christ. The Holy Spirit seals this re-born spirit as a pledge or guarantee that the redemption that has begun in that person WILL come to fruition. This is SECURITY. God cannot lie. He does not lie. He will not lie. Ephesians 4:30 states, “And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.”

Now whether one translates the word "eis" concretely with emphasis on direction and motion, with reference to time and duration, or in the abstract as “with reference to”, the ‘sealing’ points to ‘the day of redemption’. This is when Jesus returns and believers receive their glorified bodies (full redemption). Of course, when we become like Jesus, glorified body and all, we will not have to worry about a ‘sin’ nature for all eternity. But what about between the ‘day’ one believes and the ‘day’ of redemption? If this soul should decide to “jump out” of the hand of God, rebel and forsake his “Christian” walk, then what happens to the SEAL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. The idea behind this SEAL is an impress for privacy, secrecy, security, and authority. Kings sealed with a signet scrolls, letters, writings that were not to be read except at the appointed time and by the appointed individual. Daniel was told, “Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.” That means ‘forget it boys’, you’re not going to find out “till the time of the end.”

The point is simply this: The seal of the Holy Spirit (which protects the spirit of man) guarantees the safe and secure delivery of that soul to the day of redemption (of that soul). If, for ANY reason, that soul is not brought unto “the day of redemption”, then either the seal (Holy Spirit of God) has been broken (overpowered by a greater power -- which does not exist), or God simply lied. Neither is the case. Thus salvation and security are inseparable. One cannot have one without the other. If you are genuinely saved, then you are secure. And if you have not security, then you have not salvation.

If one is not ETERNALLY saved, then he is not saved at all.

 

[Nehemiah6]

One cannot have one without the other. If you are genuinely saved, then you are secure.

Add to this the other various aspects of salvation:
(1) justification by grace through faith,
(2) the imputed righteousness of Christ placed as "the robe of righteousness" on the saint,
(3) the New Birth (and the one born again becoming a new creature in Christ),
(4) the gift of eternal life,
(5) the gift of the Holy Spirit (the baptism WITH the Spirit),
(6) the placement of the believer in the Body of Christ by the Spirit (the baptism BY the Holy Spirit)
(7) the fact that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit come to indwell the believer to make his/her body the temple of God,
(8) that those whom God justifies, He has also foreknown and predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son,
(9) that God calls His children "saints", heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ.
(10) that the Bible says that nothing can separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus or Lord (Rom 8:39)
(11) that God has an eternal inheritance reserved for each saint
(12) that Christ has a mansion in the New Jerusalem reserved for each saint
(13) That the Bible says that we are "kept by the power of God" (1 Peter 1:5)
(14) That Christ says that no one can pluck God's sheep from His hand or the Father's hand (John 10:28,29)

 

[Romans34]

Add to this the other various aspects of salvation:
(1) justification by grace through faith,
(2) the imputed righteousness of Christ placed as "the robe of righteousness" on the saint,
(3) the New Birth (and the one born again becoming a new creature in Christ),
(4) the gift of eternal life,
(5) the gift of the Holy Spirit (the baptism WITH the Spirit),
(6) the placement of the believer in the Body of Christ by the Spirit (the baptism BY the Holy Spirit)
(7) the fact that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit come to indwell the believer to make his/her body the temple of God,
(8) that those whom God justifies, He has also foreknown and predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son,
(9) that God calls His children "saints", heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ.
(10) that the Bible says that nothing can separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus or Lord (Rom 8:39)
(11) that God has an eternal inheritance reserved for each saint
(12) that Christ has a mansion in the New Jerusalem reserved for each saint
(13) That the Bible says that we are "kept by the power of God" (1 Peter 1:5)
(14) That Christ says that no one can pluck God's sheep from His hand or the Father's hand (John 10:28,29)

Nehemiah6, I do appreciate your elaborating on the subject, and I agree with MOST of what you added. But I guess we'll have to take up the following on another thread sometime:

These may sound like finer technicalities, but non the less,
1) The gift of the Holy Spirit (as you find the phrase in Acts 2:38) and the sealing of the Holy Spirit are not the same thing.
2) And the Holy Spirit has never baptized anyone (if that's what you meant by "the baptism BY the Holy Spirit").
3) Only the Spirit of God indwells the believer, not the Father and Son.
That's enough for now. If we can leave this thread about the "Security Of The Believer", I will try to start one (hopefully I can find the time within a week) on the Holy Spirit.

 

[Romans34]

While the spirit of man being sealed by the Holy Spirit is probably the best argument for the teaching of "The Security Of The Believer", their are other ways to explain and illustrate the relationship.

For example, the "child of God". When a baby is born to biological parents, it is the child of the parents. Nothing can change this. No matter what happens between the parents and child, the child cannot cease to be a child of the parents. If the child becomes rebellious to the point that it hates the parents, curses the day it was born, never has anything to do with the parents, etc. the child is still their child.

Once someone is born again (from above) into the family of God, they cannot be unborn. And since they will never die (spiritually speaking) because they have everlasting (eternal) life, it is an impossibility for them to cease to be a child of God. Hence, the security of the believer (child of God).

 

[Romans34]

(13) That the Bible says that we are "kept by the power of God" (1 Peter 1:5)
(14) That Christ says that no one can pluck God's sheep from His hand or the Father's hand (John 10:28,29)

As pointed out by Nehemiah6 (above), the Bible also teaches that those that are saved and sealed by God are kept by His power. No entity can pluck a soul from His hand, including the soul within His hand. At the point of salvation, we are "bought with a price" (1 Corinthians 6:19, 20) and now belong to God, and no longer our own. Below is an explanation from a different thread:

Jesus paid a very great price to secure eternal life for us! Once we are saved, we belong to HIM:
"For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's." (1 Corinthians 6:20)
He has PURCHASED the saved! He OWNS us! And at the price He paid, He's not going to let us go. He loves us too much. We still retain our free will to choose to love and serve Him or not, but that doesn't change the fact that we BELONG TO HIM. A child may turn on his parents and refuse to have anything to do with them, but he's still his parents child.

"Who shall separate us from the love of Christ?" (Romans 8:35) NONE

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

For many years people have debated the Biblical doctrine of Security. Some have called it “once in grace, always in grace”, others “once saved, always saved”. However it is referred to, the doctrine of “The Security of the Believer” is the teaching that when a person accepts the Grace of God (i.e., by repentance and faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ), that person experiences a re-birth. The ‘old’ man dies (as far as the spirit is concerned) and is reborn as a new creation in Christ. The Holy Spirit seals this re-born spirit as a pledge or guarantee that the redemption that has begun in that person WILL come to fruition. This is SECURITY. God cannot lie. He does not lie. He will not lie. Ephesians 4:30 states, “And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.”

Now whether one translates the word "eis" concretely with emphasis on direction and motion, with reference to time and duration, or in the abstract as “with reference to”, the ‘sealing’ points to ‘the day of redemption’. This is when Jesus returns and believers receive their glorified bodies (full redemption). Of course, when we become like Jesus, glorified body and all, we will not have to worry about a ‘sin’ nature for all eternity. But what about between the ‘day’ one believes and the ‘day’ of redemption? If this soul should decide to “jump out” of the hand of God, rebel and forsake his “Christian” walk, then what happens to the SEAL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. The idea behind this SEAL is an impress for privacy, secrecy, security, and authority. Kings sealed with a signet scrolls, letters, writings that were not to be read except at the appointed time and by the appointed individual. Daniel was told, “Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.” That means ‘forget it boys’, you’re not going to find out “till the time of the end.”

The point is simply this: The seal of the Holy Spirit (which protects the spirit of man) guarantees the safe and secure delivery of that soul to the day of redemption (of that soul). If, for ANY reason, that soul is not brought unto “the day of redemption”, then either the seal (Holy Spirit of God) has been broken (overpowered by a greater power -- which does not exist), or God simply lied. Neither is the case. Thus salvation and security are inseparable. One cannot have one without the other. If you are genuinely saved, then you are secure. And if you have not security, then you have not salvation.

If one is not ETERNALLY saved, then he is not saved at all.

interesting, that you would use a Verse that clarifies to not quench the Holy Spirit, then preach absolute Security, while adding being Sealed is the difference between being Saved or Not.

you are aware, maybe not, after reading your posts, that ""only Saved People" (filled with the Spirit of God) can quench the Spirit of God?
non- Saved people do not have the Holy Spirit anywhere near them.
only the Saved people do.
that means, only the SAVED can Quench the Holy Spirit.

so, the real question, since "only Saved people" can quench the Spirit, what happens if they choose to quench the Spirit of God?

first off, what is quenching the Spirit of God?
When you've chosen not to obey the voice of the Holy Spirit, you bear no fruits.

what did Jesus say about:
Not bearing fruits?

John 15:
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser.

2 Every branch in me that bears not fruit he [[cuts off]]

6 If any one abide not in me, he is cut off as the branch and withers, and they gather it and throw it into the fire, and it is burned.




So, you provide a Verse that has ""BOTH"" Warning and Promise, and then completely skip and ignore the Warning all together.

Good thing i do not adhere to your idealism, i could be cut off and burning...because the other part of your Doctrine is obeying equals works. Obeying Holy Spirit [which when you do not is Quenching the Spirit and only SAVED People can quench the Spirit] is a works.


my point is not about getting Regenerated, but about after we are Saved!
only the Saved can quench the Spirit of God that LIVES inside of us.

 

[Eli1]

I realize that this is another Salvation topic and i don't comment on most of those, but i just wanted to comment on the title.

I don't see this as "Security of the believer" but as Peace of the believer.

"For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you"

 

[Romans34]

interesting, that you would use a Verse that clarifies to not quench the Holy Spirit, then preach absolute Security, while adding being Sealed is the difference between being Saved or Not.

you are aware, maybe not, after reading your posts, that ""only Saved People" (filled with the Spirit of God) can quench the Spirit of God?
non- Saved people do not have the Holy Spirit anywhere near them.
only the Saved people do.
that means, only the SAVED can Quench the Holy Spirit.

The apostle paul was writing to the church in Ephesus when he said, "And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption." He also was writing to the church in Thessalonica when he wrote, "Quench not the Spirit." So 'yes', he was writing to saved people. I don't agree that only the saved can quench the Spirit, but Paul was addressing saved people. But the word 'grieve' means essentially to afflict with sorrow (cause grief). The word 'quench' carries the idea to extinquish, dampen, hinder, repress, or thwart. Neither of these words mean or imply damnation to the soul. Also saved people are not always "filled with the Spirit of God". The truth is, especially in modern times, we rarely are actually "filled with the Spirit". One is only filled with the Spirit if the Spirit has total control over the person in question, and we very rarely give Him total control.

When you've chosen not to obey the voice of the Holy Spirit, you bear no fruits.

what did Jesus say about:
Not bearing fruits?

John 15:
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser.

2 Every branch in me that bears not fruit he [[cuts off]]

6 If any one abide not in me, he is cut off as the branch and withers, and they gather it and throw it into the fire, and it is burned.

One can be filled with the Spirit today, and not tomorrow. One can grieve or quench the Spirit today, and not tomorrow. Or vice-versa. Saved people disobey the voice of the Holy Spirit every day, but they haven't ceased to be God's children. The word 'abide' means to dwell or remain, so this teaching about bearing fruit has to do with perpetual living for Christ. The word εβληθη in verse 6 means to be cast forth, not cut off. Jesus said in John 6:37, ". . . him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." [no way] and in verse 6 it plainly states ". . . and men gather them, and cast them in to the fire, and they are burned." So the lesson is not about the eternal soul, and the fire is not hellfire or the lake of fire. You are reading too much into it.

 

[Romans34]

I don't see this as "Security of the believer" but as Peace of the believer.

"For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you"

The peace comes with the security. And in the referenced verse (Luke 17:21) the phrase "within you" means "in your midst", and is not talking about individuals, but the church, who Jesus said was already in their midst. Surely He wasn't saying that the kingdom of God was in those Christ-hating Pharisees.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

The apostle paul was writing to the church in Ephesus when he said, "And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption." He also was writing to the church in Thessalonica when he wrote, "Quench not the Spirit." So 'yes', he was writing to saved people. I don't agree that only the saved can quench the Spirit, but Paul was addressing saved people. But the word 'grieve' means essentially to afflict with sorrow (cause grief). The word 'quench' carries the idea to extinquish, dampen, hinder, repress, or thwart. Neither of these words mean or imply damnation to the soul. Also saved people are not always "filled with the Spirit of God". The truth is, especially in modern times, we rarely are actually "filled with the Spirit". One is only filled with the Spirit if the Spirit has total control over the person in question, and we very rarely give Him total control.

One can be filled with the Spirit today, and not tomorrow. One can grieve or quench the Spirit today, and not tomorrow. Or vice-versa. Saved people disobey the voice of the Holy Spirit every day, but they haven't ceased to be God's children. The word 'abide' means to dwell or remain, so this teaching about bearing fruit has to do with perpetual living for Christ. The word εβληθη in verse 6 means to be cast forth, not cut off. Jesus said in John 6:37, ". . . him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." [no way] and in verse 6 it plainly states ". . . and men gather them, and cast them in to the fire, and they are burned." So the lesson is not about the eternal soul, and the fire is not hellfire or the lake of fire. You are reading too much into it.

You talk in circles and sound like a Doctrine of REASON rather than the Holy Spirit inspiring someone to say, do not grieve Me.

The fact is, it's not, ok, 1 day I fell of the wagon and lost it all.

Grieving the Holy Spirit, is God saying DO THIS and you are saying don't want to.

It's God saying Go Preach, make Disciples, and Baptize, but, you follow a Doctrine of predestination so why make the effort because who will be Saved will be Saved and vice a versa.

And when you Obey Doctrine, rather than God....because, YOU ARE OBEYING SOMETHING ONE WAY OR ANOTHER...God sees you are not listening and not obeying His Effort to do HIS WORKS [through you]...God WORKS through people and how He gets things done by those who OBEY HIS SPIRIT so God can WORK.

You become a DEAD BRANCH that is producing NOTHING.
So, the Father cuts the DEAD BRANCH off and it's tossed into the fire.

Now, that is what God said, not what a False Doctrine, being obeyed over God, claims.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

This entire Thread is nothing but the Doctrine of human Reasoning.

We're supposed to be doers not hearers only.

You were given Faith so God can WORK through your Faith to do God's Works.

And when you have Reasoned not to do God's Works, you become USELESS and you Made that Choice to become a Bumb towards helping God.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Someone who makes Threads like this are not the poor in Spirit and not poor in any of their efforts.

They are Strong.

And to choose to Obey Doctrine over God's Holy Word is a choice made by your own understanding and reasoning.

Show me in the Bible where human understanding and reasoning ever play a part in God's Holy Word?

It's always 100% of the time instructed to Obey the Spirit of God.

And Grieving the Holy Spirit is the direct opposite of Obeying the Holy Spirit.

You Choose to not Listen.

Why should God not cut you off, you are the one choosing to do the Grieving?

 

[Cameron143]

This entire Thread is nothing but the Doctrine of human Reasoning.

We're supposed to be doers not hearers only.

You were given Faith so God can WORK through your Faith to do God's Works.

And when you have Reasoned not to do God's Works, you become USELESS and you Made that Choice to become a Bumb towards helping God.

Every believer produces fruit. It is the fruit of the Spirit. Fruit is not dependent upon the endeavor of the believer, but the operation of the Spirit.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Every believer produces fruit. It is the fruit of the Spirit. Fruit is not dependent upon the endeavor of the believer, but the operation of the Spirit.

Grieving, is making the choice to produce bad fruit not good fruit.

Either way, it's our choice which type of fruit is being produced.

 

[Cameron143]

Grieving is making the choice to produce bad fruit not good fruit.

Either way, it's our choice which type of fruit is being produced.

Grieving is making the choice to produce bad fruit not good fruit.

Either way, it's our choice which type of fruit is being produced.

Grieving is something we do. Since we can't produce fruit, it doesn't produce bad fruit. It is simply disobedience.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Grieving is something we do. Since we can't produce fruit, it doesn't produce bad fruit. It is simply disobedience.

disobedience is bad fruit.

but, if you choose to always be disobedient, and i will use your words, come to a point of "not producing fruit," God said, he will cut you off like a "dead branch" on the Vine.

 

[Cameron143]

disobedience is bad fruit.

but, if you choose to always be disobedient, and i will use your words, come to a point of "not producing fruit," God said, he will cut you off like a "dead branch" on the Vine.

I see a list of fruit in Galatians 5. Can you show me a list of bad fruit from scripture?

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Cameron, it sounds like we see this point here sort of similar.
so, let's apply this to the Bigger Picture.

if you follow a Doctrine of Predestination. you walk around thinking God has already sifted humanity. why would you ever Obey Matthew 28:19-20?


the question is:
if you follow what the Doctrine claims
or
if you follow the Bible specifically

you are Following something here one way or another.
one way or another you are OBEYING something here.

don't we only Obey WHO we actually Serve?

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I see a list of fruit in Galatians 5. Can you show me a list of bad fruit from scripture?

bad fruit is death.
you are producing your own spiritual Death!

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

some here said to OBEY is Works.
they learned that from a Doctrine.
so, they are OBEYING the Doctrine.

we are ALWAYS OBEYING something.

and whatever it is that we OBEY, that, is OUR GOD!!