The Security Of The Believer
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Those who are born again DO what he commands.
We love because he first loved us..
We are not saved because we obey. that requires perfection. Which only Christ accomplished.
Well, you didn’t really answer my question. You’re referring to condemnation. My question is referring to salvation. —Who saves us?
You seem to be saying things I have not. But You do bring up something interesting. Jesus friends are those who obey His command. Who are those who do not obey His commands? And if You say those without Christ. How can someone without Christ, who does not know Christ be able to choose whether to obey His commands or not?
A non child of God can not obey. All he can do is sin..
A child of God can not live in sin, they obey his commands (not perfectly however)
1 John 3:
. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
I am trying to figure out what you are saying.. which is why I asked the questions..
Agreed. So it has to be those in Christ choosing to disobey His commands opposite of Verse 14. I ask You then, if those in Christ choose to not do His commands and therefore are not Jesus' friends. What happens to them?
God does not treat everyone of His fallen creatures exactly the same. He can do as He pleases! He is the potter!
Men today, are a fallen creature – due to Adam's Sin. Since that time, we are all born as fallen creatures. Why? Because our heart is not right! We are at enmity with God! As such, we are unable to please God.
Are we given free will in the choices that we make? I would have to agree that yes we were given a free will.
If I decide that I want to turn right, I can turn right because I will to do so. If I decide to go on vacation, I can do so because I will to do so. But the will is not sovereign above all things, It can only will to do things based on the heart's desire. The heart says I desire to go on vacation, then the will kicks in and the decision is made. But we cannot, (in and of ourselves), turn to God because we are at enmity with God!
So the question is, How do we get a new heart? We must turn to God, repent of our sin, ask for forgiveness, and trust that He can provide it, through His Son who died on the cross. Is it the natural heart's desire to turn to God? NO, and it never will be unless God call us to Him. Does He call all people? NO, the call is only provided to some, His Elect. Most often it takes place through hearing or reading God's word, and the Spirit laying it own our heart.
Men may argue that this is not fair as long as they wish, but scripture points to this very fact. And the result of this process is that we are changed, we are a new creature, we have been given a new heart, and our free will now works on the new heart's desires!
What happens to those who are not called? They are not God's elect unless He chooses to call them. The very fact that any are called is more than we deserve!
I do not like to be classified as a Calvinist but I also do not believe in a fickle God. If He calls us then I believe it is DONE! He will not test us more than we can bare. Do we continue to sin? Yes! Even though we are a new creature we will not be perfected until He comes again.
Men today, are a fallen creature – due to Adam's Sin. Since that time, we are all born as fallen creatures. Why? Because our heart is not right! We are at enmity with God! As such, we are unable to please God.
Are we given free will in the choices that we make? I would have to agree that yes we were given a free will.
If I decide that I want to turn right, I can turn right because I will to do so. If I decide to go on vacation, I can do so because I will to do so. But the will is not sovereign above all things, It can only will to do things based on the heart's desire. The heart says I desire to go on vacation, then the will kicks in and the decision is made. But we cannot, (in and of ourselves), turn to God because we are at enmity with God!
So the question is, How do we get a new heart? We must turn to God, repent of our sin, ask for forgiveness, and trust that He can provide it, through His Son who died on the cross. Is it the natural heart's desire to turn to God? NO, and it never will be unless God call us to Him. Does He call all people? NO, the call is only provided to some, His Elect. Most often it takes place through hearing or reading God's word, and the Spirit laying it own our heart.
Men may argue that this is not fair as long as they wish, but scripture points to this very fact. And the result of this process is that we are changed, we are a new creature, we have been given a new heart, and our free will now works on the new heart's desires!
What happens to those who are not called? They are not God's elect unless He chooses to call them. The very fact that any are called is more than we deserve!
I do not like to be classified as a Calvinist but I also do not believe in a fickle God. If He calls us then I believe it is DONE! He will not test us more than we can bare. Do we continue to sin? Yes! Even though we are a new creature we will not be perfected until He comes again.
Read john 3
If they chose not to obey, they chose to live in sin.
A child of God can not live in sin.
so do the math.
A person who choses to not obey is a non believer he is not a child of God. he never was a child of God
If obedience is required to be saved, we are under law not under grace
Hi. I have a question regarding the Election. Are the Elect chosen because, before the foundation of the world and in God’s foreknowledge of them, they were found worthy to be chosen?
I agree! But only a believer can make this decision after knowing Him. It appears we're both on the same page. That person who was a believer has chosen to disregard His commands. He gets cut off. From Your answers alone, I can easily deduct it's the person's choice whether to obey or not obey. This must also mean a person can lose their salvation by their own choice. You just said a person who chooses not to obey is a non believer. So they went from believer to non believer by choice. I agree with You 100%
Does God chose them because they are worthy.
Or did he chose them based on foreknowledge
I like asking a question of a question so we can both think
No, We do not agree.
He can not get cut off..
A person who has decided to return to his vomit was and still is a dog.
That is why he returns to sin, because he was never saved.
Again, If his obedience is required. He is under law not under grace
The thing of sin is obvious but what makes things superfluous to me is that when one intends to work for his salvation which part is an excess and that needs to get rid of. James' core belief highlighted, that after one has been saved with the word of truth being “begat he us with the word of truth” James 1: 18, one is expected to do righteous things. No one is saying we do no righteous things after being saved. Btw, who did beget? the scriptures “he” and who is that “he”? It’s God through his word of truth. It’s never been us. If someone works for it then that is “superfluity of naughtiness”
Let’s look at Isah 64:6 in the proper context. Good thing if we meet the Lord with our righteous deeds yet Isaiah says he was unclean, he knows he is a sinner before God, remember when he says “I am a man of unclean lips”? No one meets God’s standard. Doing righteous deeds or acts of righteousness is viewed by God as nothing, it is just like a filthy rag. Isaiah viewed himself and all have sinned though he does righteous deeds. The alternative? It is to be of God’s way, not man’s way of doing things to obtain God’s favor, and that’s not grace after all and we are not saved by it. Ephesians 2:8-9. The thing you are defending is properly seen as “superfluity of naughtiness” which you need to lay them apart.
We need to prove our claim via what the scriptures say or as fit in the context. I’ll try to use the book of James unless there is a parallel with other scripture says. The deception is putting works of righteousness play a part in salvation. Christ says no one yet meets the standard of the Pharisees when it comes to self-righteousness and yet the Pharisees were not even to meet God’s standards. Obviously, you ignored what explained the cause of doing righteous works. The word “Wherefore” in verses 19 and 21 is not altogether an imagination. Disregarding what is necessary is “filthiness”. Scriptures say there is a cause for doing righteous deeds because of what something has been done before doing it.
Me think is no longer necessary to comment on your other posts since this resembles the same concepts or perhaps try to comment on them if I have the time.
@selahsays
This is how I see it
Romans 8:29
For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
The predestination is not because we are worthy. It is to make us worthy by conforming us to his image.. And it is based on his foreknowledge
I understand. So would that foreknowledge be of us as individuals? God tells Jeremiah:
Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
- Jeremiah 1:4-5
Obedience is required to be friends. Obeying His commands is friendship according to Verse 14. You telling me non friends are in Heaven who do not obey?
No
I am saying ALL of Gods children obey
Those who do not obey have never known God.
My point is that the sheep obey God. But You disconnect the fact they do obey from they remain saved. But only a saved person obeys the commands. And by obeying the commands, we are friends. So obedience does keep us as friends and saved.