Hay, wait for me.
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An entire church being warned of being 'spewed out' in Revelation.. isn't about the individual's eternal salvation in that church. Otherwise each and every believer in that church would lose eternal life! That is not what the passage in Revelation 3 is saying.
It is about warnings to churches to go on to faithfulness for Jesus, because they could have the presence of the Holy Spirit removed from their congregation 'in the midst' of them. They would cease to be one of God's churches.
Each church in this chapter had a message for their pastor (angel), about the problems these churches have and things they are doing well. If they go on to faithfulness, buying gold tried in the fire.. (God's blessings.. not material things).. they will have blessings from God and the fruits of being faithful to Him.
Salvation itself is a gift of God.. that isn't earned or merited in anyway. See the book of John. Plus Romans 5:8 and Romans 10.
There are many verses about judgment for unsaved and saved.. but you gotta look at what is being judged, and what God has preset for believers. Believers, when they are converted have entrance to heaven preset.. pre destined. Believers who struggle in the faith and fall into sin.. lose rewards in heaven and don't have the same place as faithful believers.
It is about warnings to churches to go on to faithfulness for Jesus, because they could have the presence of the Holy Spirit removed from their congregation 'in the midst' of them. They would cease to be one of God's churches.
Each church in this chapter had a message for their pastor (angel), about the problems these churches have and things they are doing well. If they go on to faithfulness, buying gold tried in the fire.. (God's blessings.. not material things).. they will have blessings from God and the fruits of being faithful to Him.
Salvation itself is a gift of God.. that isn't earned or merited in anyway. See the book of John. Plus Romans 5:8 and Romans 10.
There are many verses about judgment for unsaved and saved.. but you gotta look at what is being judged, and what God has preset for believers. Believers, when they are converted have entrance to heaven preset.. pre destined. Believers who struggle in the faith and fall into sin.. lose rewards in heaven and don't have the same place as faithful believers.
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Agreed brother! Another point:
We cannot overlook the pastor. God has appointed some to be pastor/teachers. The logical conclusion to that is......we need a Pastor teacher. And the believers responsibility is to find his/her RIGHT pastor teacher. Not just go to some church. I made a mess of the bible on my own. But when I found the right teacher, It all came together.
From your posts, it looks like you found your right teacher.
We cannot overlook the pastor. God has appointed some to be pastor/teachers. The logical conclusion to that is......we need a Pastor teacher. And the believers responsibility is to find his/her RIGHT pastor teacher. Not just go to some church. I made a mess of the bible on my own. But when I found the right teacher, It all came together.
From your posts, it looks like you found your right teacher.
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Thank you sir, I have had pastors since 2004 that focus on what the bible says alone and not what is popular for christian teachings. There are alot of popular phrases and quotes from believers who haven't full read the context of the verses they quote.
A prime example is in Matthew 18.. 'where two or three are gathered in my name, there I am with them' from Jesus. Many believers will apply this to believers gathered anywhere for any purpose.
But the context is about resolving sin issues in a New Testament church. Using a similar process Israel had in Deuteronomy, with having two or three members gathered with the sinning brother to sort out the problem, and God blessing that process in a special way.
There is application to the local church gathering also.. but that is just it.. it is the local NT church.. not a random gathering or like a christian concert.
A prime example is in Matthew 18.. 'where two or three are gathered in my name, there I am with them' from Jesus. Many believers will apply this to believers gathered anywhere for any purpose.
But the context is about resolving sin issues in a New Testament church. Using a similar process Israel had in Deuteronomy, with having two or three members gathered with the sinning brother to sort out the problem, and God blessing that process in a special way.
There is application to the local church gathering also.. but that is just it.. it is the local NT church.. not a random gathering or like a christian concert.
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I believe in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. I believe in the six literal days of creation, in heaven and hell. I believe Satan and a demon world exist, and also a heavenly host. That God took out a people for himself, beginning with Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and his twelve son and put before them a covenant promise called the Abrahamic covenant. We gentiles are grafted into these promises Jehovah made to the Jews. I believe Jesus is the head of the church, and firstborn of the dead. As for those who reject his promises and his Son, they will go before the judgement seat of Christ.
That God is not done with Israel and that the church today is in a moral decline. Technology has become the new god of this world; thus, false teachers abound, just turn on your TV. Thanks for asking me that question, I'm proud to be a Christian.
That God is not done with Israel and that the church today is in a moral decline. Technology has become the new god of this world; thus, false teachers abound, just turn on your TV. Thanks for asking me that question, I'm proud to be a Christian.
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No rifle. No wall.
From your 1st post it seems like you were saying that unless someone believes in a pre trib rapture, they are not a saved Christian.
I’m simply asking if that is your position, or not.
There are a whole host of non essential to Salvation issues that brothers and sisters in Christ disagree on.
Is a pre trib rapture an essential to be a Christian in your view?
From your 1st post it seems like you were saying that unless someone believes in a pre trib rapture, they are not a saved Christian.
I’m simply asking if that is your position, or not.
There are a whole host of non essential to Salvation issues that brothers and sisters in Christ disagree on.
Is a pre trib rapture an essential to be a Christian in your view?
Parables can only go so far. The plain teaching of Scripture is more pertinent. However, at first glance, because the five foolish women are called "virgins" it would appear that they are saved. But since oil represents the Holy Spirit, it would seem that they did not possess the Holy Spirit. This interpretation may be debatable. What it does confirm is that those who are only professing Christians will be excluded and only those who possess the Holy Spirit will be included.
In any event, when we come to the plain teaching of the NT, we see that even though Paul begins the first epistle to the Corinthians by calling them "carnal", when you go to the 15th chapter he makes no distinction between carnal and spiritual, as to which ones would be in the Resurrection/Rapture and which ones would not. The entire church (and by extension all Christians) will be included in the Resurrection/Rapture.
THE RAPTURE WAS A MYSTERY HIDDEN FROM THE PROPHETS AND REVEAKED TO PAUL
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery;
WHEN CHRIST COMES MANY CHRISTIANS WILL BE ALIVE (sleep = death)
We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
THE RESURRECTION/RAPTURE IS IN NANOSECONDS
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye,
THIS TRUMPET HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SEVEN TRUMPET JUDGMENTS
at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound,
THOSE WHO HAD PASSED ON WILL RECEIVE GLORIOUS INCORRUPTIBLE BODIES
and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, [Note: Christ brings their souls and spirits with Him from Heaven. See 1 Thess 4]
THOSE WHO ARE ALIVE WILL BE TRANSFORMED, PERFECTED, AND GLORIFIED
and we shall be changed.
THE BODIES OF THE SAINTS WILL BECOME IMMORTAL
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
That no one will be left behind is seen from verse 58: Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord. (even though some were carnal)
In any event, when we come to the plain teaching of the NT, we see that even though Paul begins the first epistle to the Corinthians by calling them "carnal", when you go to the 15th chapter he makes no distinction between carnal and spiritual, as to which ones would be in the Resurrection/Rapture and which ones would not. The entire church (and by extension all Christians) will be included in the Resurrection/Rapture.
THE RAPTURE WAS A MYSTERY HIDDEN FROM THE PROPHETS AND REVEAKED TO PAUL
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery;
WHEN CHRIST COMES MANY CHRISTIANS WILL BE ALIVE (sleep = death)
We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
THE RESURRECTION/RAPTURE IS IN NANOSECONDS
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye,
THIS TRUMPET HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SEVEN TRUMPET JUDGMENTS
at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound,
THOSE WHO HAD PASSED ON WILL RECEIVE GLORIOUS INCORRUPTIBLE BODIES
and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, [Note: Christ brings their souls and spirits with Him from Heaven. See 1 Thess 4]
THOSE WHO ARE ALIVE WILL BE TRANSFORMED, PERFECTED, AND GLORIFIED
and we shall be changed.
THE BODIES OF THE SAINTS WILL BECOME IMMORTAL
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
That no one will be left behind is seen from verse 58: Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord. (even though some were carnal)
So based on this answer and after visiting your site this tells me that you left one doctrine (The Catholics) for another doctrine (The Protestants). Again after looking at your site, you are textbook Protestant.
Do you think you arrived there on your own thinking un-influenced by anybody else?
Personally i don't see anything wrong with denominations but like you said, we are here to discuss different points of view and maybe learn something in the process.
I also see another comment here where you feel like you're under pressure, but this shouldn't bother you based on what you've said so far in regards to different views which we are supposed to discuss and if you are truly at peace with God.
Do you think you arrived there on your own thinking un-influenced by anybody else?
Personally i don't see anything wrong with denominations but like you said, we are here to discuss different points of view and maybe learn something in the process.
I also see another comment here where you feel like you're under pressure, but this shouldn't bother you based on what you've said so far in regards to different views which we are supposed to discuss and if you are truly at peace with God.
op: Hey, wait for me [ 'left behind' at the rapture? ].
I like this observation. With respect for my elders, let's ask a few [ less than 12? ]
clarifying questions about two of 'the pieces' of this controversial puzzle:
1) Salvation / Justification / Redemption [ @Nehemiah6 ]? Is it, for us, today,
[ Correctly Apportioned? (@TheDivineWatermark) ]:
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!” (online):
Clarification?:
How then can "The Body" be the same as "The Holy Jerusalem" =
Further expanded study:
Is The Body Of Christ The Lamb's Wife?
Amen.
I like this observation. With respect for my elders, let's ask a few [ less than 12? ]
clarifying questions about two of 'the pieces' of this controversial puzzle:
1) Salvation / Justification / Redemption [ @Nehemiah6 ]? Is it, for us, today,
The Body Of Christ?
a) "By Grace Through faith" Only? If so, then ALL 'members' of The
Complete Body will be included in God's Great GRACE Departure
[ me, Ga ], Correct?
[ Correctly Apportioned? (@TheDivineWatermark) ]:
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!” (online):
b) Or, yesterday, for Israel, by"faith Plus works"? If so, then only
the 'faithful' members will depart, Correct? Problem is, who then
determines 'how' faithful or Unfaithful any 'member' of The Body
Must be in order to depart, which would then result in a 'mutilated'
Body, eh?
2) Is "The Body Of Christ" a woman (bride)"? Or, is it, As Scripture Says:"...the One New man [bridegroom]..." (Ephesians 2:15)?
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!” (online)Clarification?:
The 'bride of The Lamb'?:
And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the
seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me,
saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain,
and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out
of heaven from God" (Revelation 21:9-10)
How then can "The Body" be the same as "The Holy Jerusalem" =
Two Different entities, Correct?
Further expanded study:
Is The Body Of Christ The Lamb's Wife?
Amen.
I know the history and why I presented the question. I also know the idealism surrounding the Catholic beliefs. Praying to dead people, honoring Mary, idolizing the Apostles, turning people into Saints. Where is that listed at in the Bible? False beliefs added to the truth does not make the false beliefs become a truth.
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None of that is listed in the Bible. That comes from tradition which is a long and complicated topic to discuss which i'm willing to discuss on another topic here if you'd like. That also comes from some early books which you might reject, again rejecting some history here.
But, what i'm asking here is: do you read the Bible and people's interpretations with an open heart accepting cultural and historical context?
Are you able to accept all the differences without condemning others to hell?
Would this acceptance or condemnation be a good approach when you're approaching an atheist and you want to talk to him about God?
But, what i'm asking here is: do you read the Bible and people's interpretations with an open heart accepting cultural and historical context?
Are you able to accept all the differences without condemning others to hell?
Would this acceptance or condemnation be a good approach when you're approaching an atheist and you want to talk to him about God?
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I read peoples interpretations on the bases of milk and meat.
Depends upon the difference and how much of it they believe to the point of taking it to the grave with them.
Most people are already set in their ways and need to see their beliefs do not align with what God actually said. If the Holy Spirit is going to convict them, they first need to be told the truth without wavering to account for who or what they are.
Depends upon the difference and how much of it they believe to the point of taking it to the grave with them.
Most people are already set in their ways and need to see their beliefs do not align with what God actually said. If the Holy Spirit is going to convict them, they first need to be told the truth without wavering to account for who or what they are.