Grace believer, stop adding to the Gospel

mailmandan · Dec 3, 2023

wait wait wait paul preached the gospel he was an apostle ……a servant and witness he didn’t Just say jesus died and rose the end that’s not the. Eginno g and end of the gospel you have to hear about the life of jesus his word and teachings hos suffering and death fornus his resurrection and ascention to the throne of God

Why do you define what Paul preached with a couple select verses but the rest of it is not part of what Paul preached ?

Did Paul preach this ?

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭

of course he did because that’s also part of the gospel that Jesus taught

did paul preach this like he claims or will you explain it to me ?

“but shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judæa, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. ( Paul taught Jews the same as gentiles )

Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:

that Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭26:20, 22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Is Paul wrong again about what he taught people ? Was he re inventing things ? Or did he just have his eyes opened by Jesus so he could understand the ot scripture ? and what it said about Christ ?

Do you see what Paul said there ? It’s written in the prophets law and psalms …..

Paul was an official apostle who preached the gospel people today are distorting his doctrine so mderstsnd I’m not saying Paul isn’t genuine I’m saying he did go around saying “ grace Jesus died your save the end “ he taught the same doctrine Jesus did

Repentance from sin ,baptism for remission of sins , doing the Will of God not serving sin any more underrrsndonf we do have to answer for our works he taught about our eternal home with Christ in his kingdom , he taught about God the father , Jesus the son and his Holy Spirit which is as much a part of the gospel as Jesus dying and being raised everything you find in Mathew mark Luke and John. Is the gospel that Paul agreed with believed and preached just exactly like every other apostle they all preached to gentiles and Jews Jews first then gentiles like pul did first to Jew then gentile because the Jews were vastly rejecting it

the gospel is more than Jesus dying and being raised it’s why I’m the holy Bible you have four account of the gospel all about Jesus the lord and his kingdom promised to believers

again jesus dying and being raised up is the gospel it is not the entire gospel the gospel is also Jesus doctrine his death is just part of what we learn on the gospel

Paul was never trying to exclude the words of Jesus Christ from the gospel he preached the gospel it’s salvation as is d will ever change

Is this what Paul preached ?

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-

I’m n one hand you’ve said Jesus and John preached the gospel of the kingdom which isn’t correct John was preaching the baptism of repentance for remission of sins Jesus began preaching the gospel after John was put in prison jesus preached the gospel friend

So saying paul preached the gospel of the kingdom ? And Jesus death and resurrection is part of it then ?

I cited more than just a couple of select verses in regard to what Paul preached about the gospel. You seem to "add" salvation by water baptism and sinless perfection to the gospel. I suspected all along that you "added" works to the gospel. You also seem to confuse what the gospel is with everything written in the 4 gospel accounts: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

You still have not shown me where before the cross the 12 disciples were preaching about the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) along with the further content of the mystery of the gospel, that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel in Ephesians 3.

Pilgrimshope · Dec 3, 2023

mailmandan said:

“cited more than just a couple of select verses in regard to what Paul preached about the gospel. You seem to "add" salvation by water baptism and sinless perfection to the gospel.”

a lot yea you explained what Paul preached but why can’t you accept what Paul said he preached under oath ?

“but shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judæa, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me. Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:

that Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭26:20-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What you are doing is rejecting what Paul said and the. Quoting out of co text verses and making circular arguments because you won’t accept what’s there what else did Paul preach ?

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭

pauls conversion

“And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭9:18, 20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

How about this did Paul preach this ?

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Did Paul preach that ?

no one needs anyone else to explain what the Bible actually says even Paul’s letters we can just read them rather than finding a verse that we can try to erase what the lord said will save people .

a as far as whether Jesus and his apostles preached Jesus death and resurrection from the grave which would be the source of salvation all of them presched it because jesus did it’s the gospel just like the rest

“saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭9:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What Paul preached about the blood of remission and Jesus shedding his blood for our sins

“for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:28‬ ‭

“even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭20:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Where do we learn who gods son is ? Why he came into the world ? Where do we hear about his death and resurrection and his ascention to the throne of heaven ? Paul preached all that stuff where do we learn about the receiving holy spirit ? Paul preached that too where do we learn th at we have to repent because we have to be judged by our deeds ? Paul preached that

a where do we learn that God is our father that loves us ? Where do we learn anything about Jesus who came to earth and made himself known ? Paul preached it constantly

where do we learn about communion ? Paul preached it he even directly quotes Jesus words from likes account of the gospel

Did Paul preach this too it’s found in the gospel

“For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭11:23-

paul probably never preached that though huh ? Definately Paul didn’t preach this it’s a warning about repentance from sin he’s never teach such a thing

“But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:3-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

probably me just adding to what Paul taught I guess rather than me accepting and acknolwedging the things he actually taught in his letters and ministry

everything Paul taught originates from what Jesus preached on the gospel he is not ove anyone else he’s not seperate from the group of apostles he is a chosen apostle of Jesus who preached the gospel all of it he didn’t just go around sayong “jesus died and rose your saved bow “

Instead of explaining to me what Paul said can you even acknolwedge the small amount of scripture I’ve shared here ? Did Paul preach and teach th eve things that are written in his words ? Or do I need to have you explain what’s in the Bible to me ? It seems like it just says what it says d we’re supposed to believe it jesus died and rose I’ve acknolwedge that long ago so have you but what about what God said about salvstion and jidgement and eternal life and repentance and forgiveness and mercy and grace and truth in the gospel ? What about Jesus promises to us in the gospel ?

Paul’s doctrine comes directly from the four gospels when we try to take a line that says “your saved by grace “ then eliminate everything else he wrote about repentance judgement day obedience to the faith all we are doing is rejecting the grace of God that can actually save our souls and bring us to repentance and remission of sins in His name

listen paul preached the gospel he’s an apostle of Jesus Christ he’s one of my favorite biblical writers but the truth is he is not more important than any other apostle he isn’t different from them in any way but how his choosing came about later

He did not change or omit anything jesus preached in the gospel but if you wish I can show you Jesus Peter and Paul preaching the same points I don’t think you’d accept it though you’ll just explain how I don’t get it and I’m adding to what’s there

the truth is I try to show what’s there and many don’t want to hear it because they heard about some mystery grace gospel that’s not the same gospel Jesus preached ……it actually keeps people from accepting the gospel when we try to make it into something else

your saying paup and Jesus dodnt preach the same things. It also your saying you aren’t claiming there are two gospels ?

Pilgrimshope · Dec 3, 2023

mailmandan said:

The word "gospel" means "good news." Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom to Israel. John the Baptist also preached the gospel of the kingdom, which was, "..Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matthew 3:2)

You think that’s the gospel of the kingdom being preached ?

“Pre Cross" they were not yet preaching anything about the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.”

It hadn’t happened yet they all had the prophets which said the messiah would die for thier sin and be raised up again from the grave and ascend into heaven .

the only difference is the ot preaches it in the future and it’s shrouded because no one knows Jesus yet , the nt preaches the same thing after it happened all you’ve pointed out is that the gospel is eternal. They were always preaching faith in Christ ….

“Now Peter had no clue that Jesus Christ would be crucified, buried and resurrected, yet he did believe that Jesus was the Messiah. “

wow peter didn’t listen to Jesus ? Or the prophets ? Why would he have no clue ?

“saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭9:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So did Peter understand the concepts paup writes about ? Like Jesus took our sins upon his body ? So we could be made the righteousness of God ?

“For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.”( Isaiah 53 )
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭2:21-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s actually what Peter first preached too after receiving the spirit he began talking about the things we learn on the gospel about Jesus the son of god dying for sin and being raised up again

then people are baptized for remission of sins into Christs name

Brother the gospel of Matthew mark Luke and John that is the gospel within it you find his death and resurrection but you also find God teaching mankind about life everlasting look what part you are not wanting to accept as the gospel

“And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, Because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; He hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, And recovering of sight to the blind, To set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭4:17-19, 21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You’re wanting what Jesus said and taught to not be the gospel ? But Just that he died and rose again it seems like but jesus repeatedly said he came to preach the gospel and fulfill the promises of the law and prophets and offer salvstion ect

show is what the Bible calls the gospel not the gospel ? How is what jesus said about salvstion , forgiveness of sins , eternal life God the father we imperfect mankind himself eternity how is all that stuff not what we need to hear and believe ?

Why did they all preach the same things jesus did after they received his spirit I wonder ? Seems like one of those “mysteries “ maybe people should not read the Bible but he selves and just let other folk tell them what it all means 😄

Pilgrimshope · Dec 3, 2023

mailmandan said:

what does it matter if it was before the cross ? Jesus hadn’t died and rose yet it doesn’t matter he saved people by faith before he died several times. You are creating this argument that makes absolutely no sense but won’t acknolwedge anything Paul actually says beyond a couple grace summary verses Paul preached l the same consents Jesus did Jesus also preached about his death and resurrection so did Isaiah seven hundred years before man you have absolutely no point there so what if Peter wasn’t telling everyone “ Jesus died and rose “ before he died and rose hahaha that doesn’t change that Jesus preached the gospel forst on Israel the. Sent them out to preach it to all the world that’s not even a real argument it’s a herring

Jesus has all authority in heaven and on earth to forgive sins to raise the dead he had all of that before he died and freely gave it in the gospel have you actually ever read Matthew mark Luke and John ?

I mean that sincerely have you event spent any time reading what Jesus was teaching ? And compared it to what Paul taught ? If you haven’t try doing that but don’t look for reasons it has to be different look at it like Jesus established things and Paul and Peter and the rest came later to expound upon them

I don’t think you will deal with any of those scriptures I left from Paul’s letters because it will not agree with your ideas but I’ll look later to see if you can accept what Paul said he taught and those few clear and plain examples in his words . Either you believe Paul or you don’t we can’t just believe one or two lines then reject the things we don’t want to hear

i love this verses in the Ephesians letter

“And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; and hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: that in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:1, 6-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬
A
But also I’ve learned to not reject the ones a few lines after in the same letter

“But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:3-7‬ ‭

sand just only accept what I think is acceptable it’s hard to let some of what Paul says in but it’s all the gospel even those warnings Paul put in all his epistles

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:19-21, 24-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think people would benefit from letting what Paul’s actually saying in his letters be what they start to believe and consider I think it would benefit anyone

those who push the law and also those who try to make some other way of salvstion out of a couple of Paul’s lines if they would read his letters but first read Jesus words in the gospel Paul would really teach them alot no matter which things we don’t grasp

But I think the difference is when I read Paul I don’t need to eliminate anything he says I think what he taught is all the gospel because I can see that it’s the same truths Jesus taught in his parables and teachings same concepts same doctrines just Paul’s words with his calling of revelation and apostleship and prophecy

you can’t make an argument that Peter wasn’t preaching Jesus death before Jesus died and then that is any significance in making a different gospel or different gospel by Paul later that has no merit

HealthAndHappiness · Dec 3, 2023

mailmandan said:

Exactly!
That's what all religions outside the gospel get wrong.
Those within the umbrella Christianity will add Christ to that equation; however, you and I know that Christ 's sacrifice was all sufficient. Adding faith in works leads to a BIG disappointment to put hell mildly.

I think our friends owe it to themselves to consider this seriously today, don't you? 📖🙂👍

wattie · Dec 3, 2023

Soyeong said:

Here is the difference...

Trusting in Jesus for salvation..one time event...saved by His grace.

John 3:16, 5:24, 6:40 etc..

And then having been given eternal life ..what is our right response to that?

That is where following Jesus' behavioural instructions come in.

We follow the New Testament rule of faith...that system..after salvation. With Jesus empowering us to do so.

If we fail in this ..the gift of eternal life with the Holy Spirit indwelling us remains.

mailmandan · Dec 3, 2023

Pilgrimshope said:

what does it matter if it was before the cross ? Jesus hadn’t died and rose yet it doesn’t matter he saved people by faith before he died several times. You are creating this argument that makes absolutely no sense but won’t acknolwedge anything Paul actually says beyond a couple grace summary verses Paul preached l the same consents Jesus did Jesus also preached about his death and resurrection so did Isaiah seven hundred years before man you have absolutely no point there so what if Peter wasn’t telling everyone “ Jesus died and rose “ before he died and rose hahaha that doesn’t change that Jesus preached the gospel forst on Israel the. Sent them out to preach it to all the world that’s not even a real argument it’s a herring

Jesus has all authority in heaven and on earth to forgive sins to raise the dead he had all of that before he died and freely gave it in the gospel have you actually ever read Matthew mark Luke and John ?

I mean that sincerely have you event spent any time reading what Jesus was teaching ? And compared it to what Paul taught ? If you haven’t try doing that but don’t look for reasons it has to be different look at it like Jesus established things and Paul and Peter and the rest came later to expound upon them

I don’t think you will deal with any of those scriptures I left from Paul’s letters because it will not agree with your ideas but I’ll look later to see if you can accept what Paul said he taught and those few clear and plain examples in his words . Either you believe Paul or you don’t we can’t just believe one or two lines then reject the things we don’t want to hear

i love this verses in the Ephesians letter

“And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; and hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: that in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:1, 6-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬
A
But also I’ve learned to not reject the ones a few lines after in the same letter

“But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:3-7‬ ‭

sand just only accept what I think is acceptable it’s hard to let some of what Paul says in but it’s all the gospel even those warnings Paul put in all his epistles

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:19-21, 24-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think people would benefit from letting what Paul’s actually saying in his letters be what they start to believe and consider I think it would benefit anyone

those who push the law and also those who try to make some other way of salvstion out of a couple of Paul’s lines if they would read his letters but first read Jesus words in the gospel Paul would really teach them alot no matter which things we don’t grasp

But I think the difference is when I read Paul I don’t need to eliminate anything he says I think what he taught is all the gospel because I can see that it’s the same truths Jesus taught in his parables and teachings same concepts same doctrines just Paul’s words with his calling of revelation and apostleship and prophecy

you can’t make an argument that Peter wasn’t preaching Jesus death before Jesus died and then that is any significance in making a different gospel or different gospel by Paul later that has no merit

You were unable to show me where before the cross the 12 disciples were preaching about the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) along with the further content of the mystery of the gospel, that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel in Ephesians 3. I can see that you just don't get it.

mailmandan · Dec 3, 2023

HealthAndHappiness said:

Amen! Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. (Romans 3:24-28) No supplements needed.

Pilgrimshope · Dec 3, 2023

mailmandan said:

i understand you have absolutely no response to anything Paul actually says he preached got ya

I expected a better attempt to avoid thought for sure you’d” explain “ why Paul didn’t understand what he preached like you do

at he secret of the Bible is not to twist everything from what it says it’s that simple really even children can get it if they don’t reject the everlasting gospel and word of their God of course

abut I am satisfied that you aren’t going to ever respond to what Paul the apostle actually preached in his own words so I don’t think ther is a reason to continue

Soyeong · Dec 3, 2023

wattie said:

That does not match the fullness of what Scripture says about our salvation, which says that we have been saved from our sin (Ephesians 2:5), we are being saved from continuing to live in sin (Philippians 2:12), and we will be saved from God's wrath on the day of he Lord (Romans 5:9-10). Our salvation would be incomplete if we were only saved from the penalty of our sin while we continued to live in sin, so there must also be an ongoing aspect of our salvation in the present. According to Titus 2:11-13, we are not required to have first done those works in order to become saved and we are not required to do those works as the result of having first been saved, but rather God graciously teaching us to do those works is itself to content of His gift of saving us from not doing those works.

In John 17:3, eternal life is the experience of knowing God and Jesus, so having that experience by obeying God's law is not something that that we do in response to eternal life, but rather that itself is the content of God's gift of eternal life, and we can't have the gift of eternal life apart from having it content.

mailmandan · Dec 4, 2023

Pilgrimshope said:

It matters because before the cross not everything was revealed all at once. Neither Adam, Abraham, Moses or the 12 disciples were preaching about the death, burial and resurrection of Christ along with the further content of the mystery of the gospel taught by Paul, that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel in Ephesians 3.

What has changed through the ages is the content of what was believed. Here is an article below from Gotquestions.org for you to read that may help shed some light on this subject.

www.gotquestions.org/before-Jesus.html

Sure he did but what was the content of their faith at that time prior to the cross? What did Adam believe? What did Moses believe? What did Abraham believe? What did the disciples believe? Be sure to read the article from gotquestions.org

In Matthew 16:16, we read - Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” In John 20:31, we read - but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name. No mention of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ here or further content of the mystery of the gospel that came to the apostle Paul through a revelation of Jesus Christ. (Galatians 1:11-12; Ephesians 3:1-9; Ephesians 6:19; Colossians 1:26-27; 4:3)

My argument makes perfect sense. You just don't get it and I acknowledge everything that Paul says. Jesus talked about His death, burial and resurrection before the cross, yet what was the response from the disciples? Peter rebukes Jesus Christ for saying he will be killed and be raised again the third day." (Matthew 16:21) In verse 22, "..Peter took him and began to rebuke him, saying, “Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!” Hmm..

Before his death, Jesus told the twelve that he had to die and that he would rise on the third day. However, it is unquestionable that the disciples were ignorant of its meaning. “Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem... And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken. (Luke 18:331-34). Now that's strange if the further content of the gospel that came through a revelation of Jesus Christ to Paul and was a mystery prior to that has the exact same content of the good news that was preached prior to the cross. *This is where we need to RIGHTLY DIVIDE THE WORD OF TRUTH.

After his crucifixion, instead of anxiously waiting his resurrection, the apostles were still ignorant, disheartened at the death of their redeemer, and did not even at first believe the testimony of his resurrection. (Mark 16:14, Luke 24:19-24) It was not until after his resurrection that Jesus appeared to the apostles and opened their understanding. (Luke 24:44-47)

I absolutely have read Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Multiple times. Now show me where the disciples were preaching about the death, burial and resurrection of Christ or the further content of the mystery of the gospel, that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel that Paul preached in Ephesians 3. I'll be waiting.

Absolutely.

You still don't understand progressive revelation.

Oh the irony.

CONTINUED..

mailmandan · Dec 4, 2023

Amen! I love those verses as well. Ephesians 2:8,9 played a strong role in my conversion. I was reading those same verses when I came to place my faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. Praise God!

I don't reject those few lines either.

The "children of disobedience" is descriptive of unbelievers. Those who are born of God practice righteousness and not sin. (1 John 3:7-10)

Paul tells us in Galatians 5:21 that those who practice such things shall not inherit the kindgom of God. Elsewhere in scripture, Paul tells us that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God in 1 Corinthians 6:9 and gives a similar list of sins that are practiced. Yet if you read further in verse 11, Paul goes on to say that such were (past tense) some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. Paul is describing the righteous (believers) here in verse 11.

Be sure to read what Paul actually said in context when you read his letters and don't simply cherry pick only what you want to hear.

When Paul talks about salvation notice it's by belief/faith and not by works. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:2-6; 5:1; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9 etc..).

The teachings of Jesus and Paul are in harmony yet you still do not understand progressive revelation.

Peter did not preach about the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus before the cross, yet just because there was further revelation to the content of the gospel after the cross does not mean that we have two different gospels. We just have further revelation. The Bible was not yet finished being written before the cross. I'm sure this is very deep for you and you may need to time to chew on this before the truth finally sinks in.

mailmandan · Dec 4, 2023

Pilgrimshope said:

I'm beginning to believe that you have no idea what you are talking about and you seem to be more interested in winning your argument (hence, got ya) than you are in seriously considering what I shared with you from scripture. The everlasting gospel doesn't change the fact that God's word came to us through progressive revelation and not everything was revealed all at once. It's like pulling teeth in order to get you to understand that.

mailmandan · Dec 4, 2023

Pilgrimshope said:

When it comes to the specific predictions of Paul in Acts 26 we have prophesies of a suffering servant, resurrection of Messiah and a light to the Jews and Gentiles prophesied about in the OLD Testament, although these prophecies were somewhat vague and remained a mystery. A mystery is in the New Testament is something that at one time been hidden but is now revealed to God's people.

*Now show me in the Old Testament where the prophets specifically preached what Paul preached in (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 12:13; 15:1-4; Ephesians 3:1-9; Ephesians 6:19; Colossians 1:26-27; 4:3 etc..) and show me where Old Testament saints were saved by believing the content of the gospel that Paul taught.

I rejected nothing. You need to shorten your posts. Too much long-winded rambling.

Not two gospels. Same gospel but the full content was not revealed all at once.

Soyeong · Dec 4, 2023

HealthAndHappiness said:

We have kept God's law, though only Jesus kept it perfectly.

HealthAndHappiness said:

Romans 10:16 is another example of a verses that equates our obedience with our belief. In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and God's law was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message, which means that is something to both obey/believe. While there are many verses that say that believing in Jesus is the way to eternal life, there are also many verses that say that obedience to God is the way to eternal life, so you should you should not focus on just half of what Scripture says about the way to have eternal life while ignoring the other half, but rather you should seek the understand the fullness of what Scripture says about it so that you do not misunderstand what it means to believe.

God is trustworthy, therefore His instructions are also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to trust in God is by obediently trust in His instructions, and it is contradictory to think that we should trust in God for eternal life, but not trust in His instructions. In Proverbs 3:5-7, we have a choice between whether we are going to lean on our own understanding of right and wrong by doing what is right in our own eyes or whether we are going to trust in God with all of our heart by obeying His instructions in all of our ways and He will make our way straight, so that is what it means to believe in God. By doing good works in obedience to God's instructions, we are testifying about God's goodness, which is why our good works bring glory to Him (Matthew 5:16), and by testifying that God is good, we are also expressing the belief that God is good, or in other words, we are believing in Him. The way to believe that God is just is by following His instructions for how to doing justice, the way to believe that God is holy is by following His instructions for how to be holy and He is holy, and so forth.

In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His instructions, and he chose the way of faith by setting them before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith.

Cameron143 · Dec 4, 2023

Soyeong said:

We have kept God's law, though only Jesus kept it perfectly.

Romans 10:16 is another example of a verses that equates our obedience with our belief. In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and God's law was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message, which means that is something to both obey/believe. While there are many verses that say that believing in Jesus is the way to eternal life, there are also many verses that say that obedience to God is the way to eternal life, so you should you should not focus on just half of what Scripture says about the way to have eternal life while ignoring the other half, but rather you should seek the understand the fullness of what Scripture says about it so that you do not misunderstand what it means to believe.

God is trustworthy, therefore His instructions are also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to trust in God is by obediently trust in His instructions, and it is contradictory to think that we should trust in God for eternal life, but not trust in His instructions. In Proverbs 3:5-7, we have a choice between whether we are going to lean on our own understanding of right and wrong by doing what is right in our own eyes or whether we are going to trust in God with all of our heart by obeying His instructions in all of our ways and He will make our way straight, so that is what it means to believe in God. By doing good works in obedience to God's instructions, we are testifying about God's goodness, which is why our good works bring glory to Him (Matthew 5:16), and by testifying that God is good, we are also expressing the belief that God is good, or in other words, we are believing in Him. The way to believe that God is just is by following His instructions for how to doing justice, the way to believe that God is holy is by following His instructions for how to be holy and He is holy, and so forth.

In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His instructions, and he chose the way of faith by setting them before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith.

If you haven't kept God's law perfectly, you haven't kept God's law.

Soyeong · Dec 4, 2023

Cameron143 said:

There is a spectrum between someone who has perfectly kept God's law, someone who has perfectly disobeyed God's law, and everyone else in between. For example, the fact that someone has at some point broken the command to honor their parents does not mean that they have never done anything to honor their parents in obedience to that command. While only Jesus kept God's law perfectly, there are many examples of people who did keep God's law, such as in Joshua 22:1-3, Luke 1:5-6, Revelation 14:12, and Revelation 22:14.

God's law itself came with instructions for what to do when the people sinned, so it never requires us to have perfect obedience. The fact that we can repent after we have sinned and still be saved demonstrates again that we are not required to have perfect obedience. In Deuteronomy 30:11-20, it says that God's law is not too difficult for us to obey and that obedience to it brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! So it was presented as a possibility and as a choice, not as the need for perfect obedience, and Romans 10:5-8 references Deuteronomy 30:11-20 as the word of faith that we proclaim. In 1 John 5:3, to love God is to keep His commandments, which are not burdensome, so claim that we need to have perfect obedience in order to keep them is to deny that anyone but Jesus has loved God and to deny that His commandments are not burdensome.

Cameron143 · Dec 4, 2023

Soyeong said:

There is a spectrum between someone who has perfectly kept God's law, someone who has perfectly disobeyed God's law, and everyone else in between. For example, the fact that someone has at some point broken the command to honor their parents does not mean that they have never done anything to honor their parents in obedience to that command. While only Jesus kept God's law perfectly, there are many examples of people who did keep God's law, such as in Joshua 22:1-3, Luke 1:5-6, Revelation 14:12, and Revelation 22:14.

God's law itself came with instructions for what to do when the people sinned, so it never requires us to have perfect obedience. The fact that we can repent after we have sinned and still be saved demonstrates again that we are not required to have perfect obedience. In Deuteronomy 30:11-20, it says that God's law is not too difficult for us to obey and that obedience to it brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! So it was presented as a possibility and as a choice, not as the need for perfect obedience, and Romans 10:5-8 references Deuteronomy 30:11-20 as the word of faith that we proclaim.

There is no spectrum. You have either obeyed or not. God doesn't grade sin on a curve.
At no time has anyone except Jesus and Adam and Eve before sin obeyed God. Christians only obey as they walk in the Spirit and Christ lives in them.

Pilgrimshope · Dec 4, 2023

mailmandan said:

“Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭13:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

no I’ll never understand peoppe trying to change the gospel and claim a different way to be saved the bu me doesn’t take all the figuring and reasoning and twisting you do here you can’t even ack owledge what Paul said he preached lol your insisting that you’ve explained it all

what I’m saying is Paul explained it all but you won’t acknolwedge what he said

thats the difference I’m actually reading and quoting what Paul taught you n his epistles you are taking a verse and explaining what it all means it’s different because I’m showing you what Paul actually said and it’s not what you have explained paul taught

Do you feel me ? I accept everything Paul wrote I don’t have to reject this

“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.

….in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to our gospel.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-11, 16‬ ‭KJV

Awee here you are explaining I just don’t get it and the reason is I accept what Paul actually wrote I do t have to not rush to somehow explain why that’s not true I don’t have to go find the verses “ we’re saved by grace “ so that I can say Roman’s two doesn’t count it’s not really true ….

Paul preached what he preached not what you have imagined he preached because you do this

“And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i want to challenge you friend let’s actually have a discussion about what’s in Paul’s epistles now I’m not saying let’s only talk about whatever verse you explain and tell me that’s just what it means regardless of what else it says

actually let’s look at Paul’s epistles nd then you can tell me what I don’t understand I’ll agree with what Paul writes and explains but what’s going to be your position ? Will you accept what Paul actually preached and wrote to the church ?

if you will this could be productive if you just want to explain to me what the Bible says but then not acknolwedge what it says this is pointless

so to you or any hypergracer open challenge let’s actually look at Paul’s letters as they are and discuss what he’s saying without taking a verse and then creating a doctrine that doesn’t agree with the rest of his words about it

Amy position is we’re supposed to read the epistles and consdoer what he’s saying in them not search for a verse pluck it and create things

Paul preached the gospel same as Jesus and the apostles he preached and taught baptism for remission of sins in Jesus name , he taught about the coming judgement upon all of us , he taught the th i gs on his epistles not only one thing or one point when you guys talk about the gospel of grace it is this

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, (mark 16 preach the gospel to all people )
teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; ( the gospel teaches us this )

looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity,( the gospel teaches us this )

and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. ( t fospe teaches us this )

These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul is talking about the true gospel

Soyeong · Dec 4, 2023

Cameron143 said:

The fact that there is a time when someone disobeyed the command to honor their parents does not mean that they have never honored their parents. While it is true that no one but Jesus had perfect obedience to God’s law, it is also true that no one but Jesus has needed to have perfect obedience. There is nothing that we earn as a wage if we manage to have perfect obedience and nothing that we do not earn as a wage if we do not have perfect obedience. The fact that the Bible speaks about people who have obeyed God’s law means that there are people who have obeyed it in spite of not having perfect obedience.

Grace believer, stop adding to the Gospel

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