Predestination; are fates set in some cases?

[Truthnightmare]

You are not interested in truth, you could have easily taken a moment and did as I did. You care only about tasking me to gain some kind of sick satisfaction, If I was unable to present my position. Didn’t work out for you. You should probably work on becoming a credible person and learn how to do the simplest of search’s before you grant yourself the authority to deem who is a credible historian.

 

[maxwel]

A quick google search of “Esau Edom Russia”

Esau, Red, Edom, Russia's Symbol, The Bear
Esau, Edom The Nation Russia, Study Esau History Revelation 13 Daniel 7 Russia 3 ribs Russia will be the feet of the four world powers of the end times with the help of three rulers. (Rev 13) Russia said we will return and build the desolate places. Russia lost his birthright, he coming to claim his birthright. The word tells us about nations, we are to watch the nations that are against us. We are not talking about the people in Russia that love the Lord. We have the good and bad in all nations. How do they bring in one world order? Revelation 9:19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt. Their power is in their mouth = By lies How many countries tell us what they're going to do in the time of a war? As the song says, you better think.... Malachi 1:2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob, 3 And I hated, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness. God hated Esau ways, Love less, Esau didn't want to follow God's ways, Esau, Russia waysRussia = Esau was born of Isaac and Rebekah, Genesis 25:21Russia wants his blessing back 4 Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the LORD of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever.

• Edom's, the nation Russia,
• Russia's symbol the bear, Russia's flag is red
• Edom the elder twin-brother of Jacob; the region (Idumaea) occupied by him. Edomites, Idumea.
• Russia has saith, we are Impoverished or beaten down, but we will return and build the desolate places
• It you are a watchmen, you see this is happening, you are reading tomorrow newspaper.
• God said, they shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The territory of lawlessness.
• This happen when Russia starts to enter Alaska, the 7th vial,Ezekiel 38
• Revelation 13:2 and Daniel 7 = Russia will be one of the world powers in the end times
• 6th vial Revelation 16:12 Russia will be with the kings or rulers of the east

5 And your eyes shall see, and ye shall say, The Lord will be magnified from the border of Israel.
6 A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the Lord of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name? (Russia) Esau is not of the Kenites = Esau is of the seed line of Isaac, he lost his inheritance because he despised his birthright. Russia wants his blessing back. God tells us, The Christians nations will always have problems with Russia. The four world powers in the last days, these help bring in Satan's one world order, Daniel 2 and 7. Revelation 13:2 The Bear is Russia the feet of Satan's one world order = Daniel 7:5
But I don’t believe you have the credentials to deem anyone a credible historian or not.

Russia = Edom


Your page above is utterly meaningless - no evidence, not even bad evidence,
just imaginary claims.

You provided zero evidence.

You didn't even provide bad evidence... you provided no evidence at all.


Your Method Above:
1.) You start with baseless claims without evidence, then you use those baseless claims to support other baseless claims.
2.) You think that one baseless claim constitutes evidence for another baseless claim.
3.) Sorry, but this isn't how anyone does history or biblical exegesis.... this is how cults do history and exegesis, not how scholars or theologian do history and exegesis. (There are common principles for exegesis, and this violates all of them.)
4.) You need to show, through some kind of historical record, that the ethnic Edomites moved to Russian, and are now the Russians.
a. You can't show that from the historical record, because there is no such historical record... it doesn't exist.
b. You can't show it from scripture, because 1) Russia isn't even named explicitly in scripture at all 2) even if we pretend Russia is named in scripture, there is no direct connection to Edom.
5.) Sorry, but this isn't how anyone does history or biblical exegesis.... you can't just make stuff up.
6.) This is so bad it's just silly.
This is just a page of irrational nonsense.

You haven't shown any evidence of any kind (because there isn't any) and you haven't provided any credentialed historians or theologians to support this (because there aren't any).
It's just nonsense.

.






.

 

[Truthnightmare]

Russia = Edom


Your page above is utterly meaningless - no evidence, not even bad evidence,
just imaginary claims.

You provided zero evidence.

You didn't even provide bad evidence... you provided no evidence at all.


Your Method Above:
1.) You start with baseless claims without evidence, then you use those baseless claims to support other baseless claims.
2.) You think that one baseless claim constitutes evidence for another baseless claim.
3.) Sorry, but this isn't how anyone does history or biblical exegesis.... this is how cults do history and exegesis, not how scholars or theologian do history and exegesis. (There are common principles for exegesis, and this violates all of them.)
4.) You need to show, through some kind of historical record, that the ethnic Edomites moved to Russian, and are now the Russians.
a. You can't show that from the historical record, because there is no such historical record... it doesn't exist.
b. You can't show it from scripture, because 1) Russia isn't even named explicitly in scripture at all 2) even if we pretend Russia is named in scripture, there is no direct connection to Edom.
5.) Sorry, but this isn't how anyone does history or biblical exegesis.... you can't just make stuff up.
6.) This is so bad it's just silly.
This is just a page of irrational nonsense.

You haven't shown any evidence of any kind (because there isn't any) and you haven't provided any credentialed historians or theologians to support this (because there aren't any).
It's just nonsense.

I said this would happen… I post evidence and you think you are smart enough to render it worthy of participation. .

.

You wouldn’t know evidence, you know nothing of the manuscripts, or the Hebrew, nothing of geographical locations regarding Biblical nationalities, you're some unlearned guy on a forum looking for a argument.

Even children see the correlation between Ἠσαῦ, ὁ and ἐρυθρός, ά, όν or Edom and Russia. You do know the bear is a symbol of Russia it is stapled in the book of Daniel.

Stop wasting my time, I have no interest in anything you have to say, I know children that are wiser than you, yet are trying to critique scholars. News flash!!! no one has ever heard of you.

 

[brightfame52]

@Truthnightmare

That there are some that were to be born into their fate is clear:
Jude 4
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. KJV
My opinion, drawn from the totality of the Scriptures; and admittedly not able to be documented by any one Scripture alone, as would have been desired; is that certain were fated to work for satan, and certain were destined to work for God; and between these two groups lies the overwhelming majority of people who have choice and free will.
Those that I refer to as satan's, would be the Kenites; and those that I refer to as God's, would be what we (sometimes confusingly) refer to as God's Elect.

2 Pet 2:12

12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

The word made is the word gennaō :

1. to be born

to be born for something Like when Jesus said Jn 18:37

37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice

So you are close, but there is no in between group, God has created each person born either as a vessel mercy or a vessel of wrath

Rom 9:17-23

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

And mans will isnt free from these purposes God has established before the foundation for each person

 

[maxwel]

You wouldn’t know evidence, you know nothing of the manuscripts, or the Hebrew, nothing of geographical locations regarding Biblical nationalities, you're some unlearned guy on a forum looking for a argument.
Stop wasting my time, I have no interest in anything you have to say, I know children that are wiser than you, yet are trying to critique scholars. News flash no one has ever heard of you.

Even children see the correlation between Ἠσαῦ, ὁ and ἐρυθρός, ά, όν or Edom and Russia. You do know the bear is a symbol of Russia is stapled in the book of Daniel.
.

"I know children that are wiser than you, yet are trying to critique scholars."

You haven't named one credentialed scholar to support your view... because there are none.

1.) All you have to do is show historical evidence that the Edomites moved to Russia, and are now Russians.
2.) You have not done that, because there is no such historical evidence.
3.) Your evidence: You copy/pasted a random jumble of incomprehensible, disordered, undocumented, bizarre nonsense, that proved absolutely nothing.
.
CONCLUSION:
Regardless of your colorful insults: you still have no facts, you have no evidence... you have wild, nonsensical claims, for which you have no rational support of any kind.


,

 

[Truthnightmare]

"I know children that are wiser than you, yet are trying to critique scholars."

You haven't named one credentialed scholar to support your view... because there are none.

1.) All you have to do is show historical evidence that the Edomites moved to Russia, and are now Russians.
2.) You have not done that, because there is no such historical evidence.
3.) Your evidence: You posted a random jumble of incomprehensible, disordered, undocumented, bizarre nonsense.
.
CONCLUSION:
Regardless of your colorful insults: you still have no facts, you have no evidence... you have wild, nonsensical claims, for which you have no rational support of any kind.

You don’t get it. You are nobody to me. You are not the arbitrator of credible scholars, you are some guy on a forum, that has never published anything.

The only scholar to compile the Massorah agrees with me. But you have no idea what that even means.

You’re a joke, and I knew it from the beginning.
You told me you were willing to look at my evidence. Lie!!! You just wanted me to engage so you could later say my evidence wasn’t credible… I smelled your stench from a mile away.
So I waited, and didn’t respond.

So then you responded telling me I didn’t post evidence because I couldn’t.😂
You wanted to say I was wrong so bad you reverted to second grade reverse psychology, to get any response…. That’s sad and pathetic. how old are you….

I got tired of hearing your mouth, so I just posted some stuff from Google. And you said it wasn’t credible, just like you were going to say with anything I posted. I’m not interested in talking to you; you are one of those guys that can’t take no for an answer.

No reason to post to me, I will not see it. You want a fight so bad go to the boxing ring or MMA mat.. I have a feeling you would never do that. Deuces.

 

[maxwel]

You don’t get it. You are nobody to me. You are not the arbitrator of credible scholars, you are some guy on a forum, that has never published anything.

The only scholar to compile the Massorah agrees with me. But you have no idea what that even means.

You’re a joke, and I knew it from the beginning.
You told me you were willing to look at my evidence. Lie!!! You just wanted me to engage so you could later say my evidence wasn’t credible… I smelled your stench from a mile away.
So I waited, and didn’t respond.

So then you responded telling me I didn’t post evidence because I couldn’t.😂
You wanted to say I was wrong so bad you reverted to second grade reverse psychology, to get any response…. That’s sad and pathetic. how old are you….

I got tired of hearing your mouth, so I just posted some stuff from Google. And you said it wasn’t credible, just like you were going to say with anything I posted. I’m not interested in talking to you; you are one of those guys that can’t take no for an answer.

No reason to post to me, I will not see it. You want a fight so bad go to the boxing ring or MMA mat.. I have a feeling you would never do that. Deuces.

What Actually Happened:

1.) YOU made specific historical claims.

2.) The person who makes a claim has the RESPONSIBILITY (burden of proof) to PROVE that claim.

3.) It is not my responsibility to do anything, except to ASK YOU TO PROVE YOUR CLAIM... and you have not.

4.) You have not proved your claims.

5.) Finally, you admit that you got angry, and you posted arbitrary nonsense from google to basically just waste my time... we call that trolling.



CONCLUSION:
You posted wild claims, got angry when challenged to prove them, and then posted arbitrary nonsense off google to troll me.
Nicely done.
: )

.

 

[oyster67]

The foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, the Lord knoweth them that are his. Once sealed by the Holy Spirit, there is no undoing what the Lord has done. It is an unconditional promise.

I hope you haven't mistaken Calvinism for Christianity. They are not compatible with one another. They are diametrically opposed. Calvinism is Satan's counterfeit religion. Please break free from you denomination if that is the source of your confusion. Study the pure Word once you get free from the fog of Baptist tradition.

 

[Inquisitor]

we can do we are still under Torah law but maybe just some aspects of it as part of Salvation.

We are not members of the old covenant hence, we are not subject to old covenant law.

We are members of the New Covenant and the old covenant was the shadow covenant.

Or we can do yes we may be saved by Grace through Faith but need to work hard enough to keep it.

Our salvation is a gift given to us because we believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ (Romans 10:9).

Our work in Christ is done in love, joy and in the Holy Spirit. It's never work.

Romans 9, 10 and 11 and Jacob have I loved but Esau I have hated. That should fill up the schedule for a while.

Jacob was specifically chosen for a specific purpose, one should never generalize. God is not talking about Jacob and Esau in the terms of salvation.

 

[John146]

I hope you haven't mistaken Calvinism for Christianity. They are not compatible with one another. They are diametrically opposed. Calvinism is Satan's counterfeit religion. Please break free from you denomination if that is the source of your confusion. Study the pure Word once you get free from the fog of Baptist tradition.

I‘m the biggest opponent to Calvinism on this board brother. Where in the world would you get to your comment?

 

[DJT_47]

Not one of those verses containing the word "predestination" is concerning salvation. It is actually speaking of those already saved. It has to do with the future adoption, the redemption of the body, conforming to the image of Jesus Christ.

Not sure what point you're attempting to make relative to the original thread and my response to it. Has nothing to do with the subject of salvation but rather the foreknowledge of God as relates to everything and everyone.

 

[John146]

Not sure what point you're attempting to make relative to the original thread and my response to it. Has nothing to do with the subject of salvation but rather the foreknowledge of God as relates to everything and everyone.

According to scripture, how does the Lord know who are his?

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

 

[oyster67]

I‘m the biggest opponent to Calvinism on this board brother.

Good for you. I had no intention of falsely accusing anyone. I apologize if I appeared to do so.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The pre-tribbers debate is not a hot button for them.

Bring pre-tribbers into this thread was completely inappropriate. But we don't take offence at foolishness.

 

[JonathanBentley]

God knowing what we'll do and working with it is different than forcing it to happen. God doesn't force salvation or evil; he knows about it.

 

[John146]

God knowing what we'll do and working with it is different than forcing it to happen. God doesn't force salvation or evil; he knows about it.

Are there certain things that God chooses not to know?

 

[DJT_47]

According to scripture, how does the Lord know who are his?

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

What's the title/topic of this thread? What is your point relative to it and my comments made accordingly?

 

[John146]

What's the title/topic of this thread? What is your point relative to it and my comments made accordingly?

I'm debunking this whole, predestination thing to salvation. Predestination has nothing to do with one getting saved, but everything to do with those already saved.

Ephesians 1: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Having predestinated believes, those in Christ, unto the adoption. How does scripture define the adoption?

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. The adoption is something the believer has been promised. It is the future redemption of the body.

 

[NightTwister]

I hope you haven't mistaken Calvinism for Christianity. They are not compatible with one another. They are diametrically opposed. Calvinism is Satan's counterfeit religion. Please break free from you denomination if that is the source of your confusion. Study the pure Word once you get free from the fog of Baptist tradition.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[DJT_47]

I'm debunking this whole, predestination thing to salvation. Predestination has nothing to do with one getting saved, but everything to do with those already saved.

Ephesians 1: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Having predestinated believes, those in Christ, unto the adoption. How does scripture define the adoption?

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. The adoption is something the believer has been promised. It is the future redemption of the body.

But God knows, by his foreknowledge, in advance, who will and who will not be saved.