Predestination; are fates set in some cases?

[John146]

If God knows all, which he does, would he not know all decisions you will make including those last minute ones if a spontaneous nature? If you change your mind a thousand times and ar the very last moment, would God not know that in advance of your actually doing it? The answer should be pretty clear.

Those decisions are not knowledge in past time. They become knowledge when the decision is made. Therefore, it is not knowledge to be known in past time.

Think of playing chess. God knows in the end he wins. Wherever you move, he knows the right move to make to bring about his desired end. If you move that piece, he knows what to do. If you decide to move another piece, he knows what to do. Imagine him moving in everyone’s life all day everyday, to bring about his victory despite our choices. That’s an all powerful God.

 

[Niki7]

No, that's applied imagination and will. Obtaining dinner would be applied potency., not omnipotence.

Niki, before God created anything, was He already omnipotent? Yes. How did He create a universe from nothing without applying that omnipotence he already had? Do you think He was not applying His omnipotence to create the cosmos?

we are not going to agree here. I have heard of Jesus conferences on this earth but I do not believe they do that in heaven and the cry
of 'come to order' is probably and most likely not familiar there either

I think you are confused by your many words and somewhat circular reasoning. I made NO mention of obtaining dinner....I stated the person, in this case myself, deciding on what was for dinner (completely different from obtaining it) was omnipotent...an unnecessary use of the word for such a simple thing, but correct even so.

meaning, I am the only one making the decision....no one else has any say....

how, no really HOW do you come up with such a different rendering then what I actually said?

sorry, but I have had enough of trying to understand what on earth your actual point is. perhaps others are entertained by the exchange but I don't have enough time in the day for it

 

[Niki7]

the way some folks in this forum post, you would think they offer the greatest revelation next to the Bible...somewhat like this kitty, while not understanding that the corresponding response is not a happy dance at being educated by another person's fancy

no one has to understand, but I really just wanted to say something since I have a tendency to jump from a to z at times while leaving out the tender middle with all its nuances.

 

[stilllearning]

An even better understanding, IMHO, would be that time is merely a function of change, and if the Father and Son and Holy Spirit have conversations, they also experience time as statements and responses preceed and follow one another. Also that the future does not exist to be known, but specific plans and intentions one might hve for the future do exist. And that an omniscient God knows all that exists and has existed to be known, including His specific plans. And an omnipotent God is able to make any specific plans He has happen. And an omnipotent, omniscient God is able to mitigate the effects of His creatures decisions in order to keep His specific plans viable, but is able to give creatures the ability to make choices that are not just influenced by the pressure ol precedent past causes that have real existence, but are also influenced by the attraction of perceived future consequences that do not have real existence. Decisions influenced by perceptions of future consequences that do not yet have real existence cannot be completely predetermined. Therefore we have free will (free desires) and freedom to choose how to act regarding those desires, even if our options for action are limited.

I have to agree, well with the statement that time serves as a vehicle of change. Although we arrived at different conclusions understanding that time serves that functionality.

I find it shows the complete wisdom of God and how he has knowledge of every detail concerning every aspect of his creation. I don't believe God does anything as a lets see how this works out. I find he is very deliberate and purposeful so everything he does serves a intended purpose.

One way God describes time is in the aspect of change. Comparing eternal and time, he makes the statements. The same yesterday, today, and forever. I change not.

So I find that time serves as a means for repentance, for salvation. When we look at Satan, one who was created in eternity. When he fell we never read of any offer or chance of salvation. We also read from scripture that today is the day of salvation. Through scripture we come to an understanding that salvation has to happen here and now.

For if one dies in sin then they are found and judged to be a sinner to be unrighteous in eternity. Whereas if one accepts Christ here on this plane of existence. They are judged righteous because of his righteousness in eternity.

So when God created time he created a mechanism of change, the evening and the morning were the first day. Then on day four he created the watch or the time piece with the creation of the sun and moon.

So by creating time and it as a fundamental to our plane of existence he wrote in that this existence has at it's very core, that change is not only allowed, that the very laws of this reality revolve around that. So by creating time which is change. He created the very concept of change. Which is what is at the basis of repentance, being able to turn from what we are doing and go in the opposite direction. The ability to change. The ability to repent. He did so when he created time, in the beginning God........

 

[PaulThomson]

Me:
Do you agree with the syllogism below?

A: God foreknows who will accept the will of God: and
B: God intended from the beginning to assist to be conformed to the image of Jesus all those who accept His will: therefore
C: We can assert that God has predestined those who accept God's will to be conformed to Jesus' image.

Not "to assist" but to actually "TRANSFORM BY DIVINE POWER" each believer.

The body, soul, and spirit will be totally cleansed ad perfected by the power of God and Christ, so that all God's children are as perfect as Christ, and also possess glorious and glorified bodies. This is in fact MIRACULOUS.

Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.(1 John 3:1-3)

Are you assuming a false dichotomy between monergism and synergism to come to this opinion? The bible does not present either pole as reality. God works to get the gospel to us and to convince us of the gospel. We do not work to earn salvation. We believe to receive Christ and the gospel. Believing is not a work. There is no power needed on our part to believe something. Even the weakest person can believe something or someone.