Wayne gave scripture as proof of his argument. Where is your “proof”? Where is the scripture that teaches what you say? You cannot ask us to believe it just because you say so. Yes, in the first century there was Holy Spirit baptism, BUT… it had to be “given” by God and as far as I can find, it was only given miraculously twice. Once in Acts 2 on the 12 apostles (Jews) and once in Acts 10 on Cornelius and his house (gentiles). Both times it was given as a “sign” of God’s approval and authority. In all other cases in the New Testament it was given by the apostles laying their hands on someone and giving them the Holy Spirit. It was not for salvation as seen in Acts 10 after receiving the Holy Spirit, Cornelius and his house were “COMMANDED” to be baptised. In WATER. And in Acts 8 Christians there were already saved (baptized in the name of Jesus) when they received it by Peter and John laying their hands on them AFTER they were already saved. When the last apostle died there was no more Holy Spirit baptism or receiving the Holy Spirit thru the hands of the apostles. Therefore, it ceased. Clearly, Ephesians 4, the one baptism is “water” baptism in the name of Jesus Christ. Examples of Baptisms in the New Testament prove this—Acts 10, Acts 8 where Phillip and the Eunuch went down into the water, Acts 22 where Paul is told to “Arise and be baptized and WASH away your sins.” Today, when we are baptized by water, Acts 2:38, God promises us the gift of the Holy Spirit. He dwells in us and our body is His temple 1 Corinthians 6:19.
One Baptism
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When Paul wrote that there is one baptism, he was refering to the singular baptism related to the christian faith, not all the various washings and ritual washings through out history. That baptism is clearly water baptism if one bother to read the full context of all that is written about christian baptism.
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so we ignore the fact John said as he was baptizing that the one who comes after him will baptize with the HS and fire (insinuating that that would be a more important baptism that his)
as for acts 2: 38, it does not say what you think, it is a poor translation. you need to study it some more. Peter said be baptised on the account you recieved remmission of sin based on the fact you repented and recieved the HS. not in order to get it.
Jesus tells us in John 3 how to be born again, He did not mention baptism once. God is not an author of confusion
as for acts 2: 38, it does not say what you think, it is a poor translation. you need to study it some more. Peter said be baptised on the account you recieved remmission of sin based on the fact you repented and recieved the HS. not in order to get it.
Jesus tells us in John 3 how to be born again, He did not mention baptism once. God is not an author of confusion
You are not understanding John's statement. I recently posted a clear explanation of what his statement meant and who it pertained to due to the current day misunderstanding of it and related scriptures involving spiritual gifts or manifestations of the Spirit. I'll repost here for your review and edification.
REPOST
Start with Luke 3:16 and Luke 24:47-49 both restated in Acts 1:4-5. What's it say? One will come that will baptize with the Holy Ghost and with fire, in Luke 3:16, and in Luke 24:47-49, it says repentance and remission of sins should be preached starting at Jerusalem and to tarry there until they received power from on high. And what's Acts 1:4-5,say? It restates both of these.4And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.And in Luke 24:47-49, who was this addressed to? Starting in verse 36 of Luke 24, Jesus appears to the APOSTLES and verses 47-49 is his instructions to them, the apostles.
47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48And ye are witnesses of these things. 49And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
Then Acts 1:8 says the following
8But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth
It's clear that the falling of the Holy Ghost with fire was meant for THE APOSTLE'S as well as the power from on high, and that this occurred as recorded in Acts 2; read it all carefully.
Futher, Acts 10 was also a unique demonstration of the Holy Ghost and unilaterally by the Holy Ghost falling on the Gentiles first and unlike Acts 2 where it fell on the apostles, but also as a sign and validation from on high which there validated it was God's plan to bring the Gentiles into the body of Christ. In that case, it was validation to Peter and company. It fell on the Gentiles prior to baptism but they were then immediately baptized. Why? Because that's how you become part of the Lord's body; you're baptized into Christ as noted in scripture such as Acts 2:38-47 and elsewhere.
The power from on high and the miraculous manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit, not the Spirit itself, but it's gifts as noted in 1 Cor 12:8-10, are manifested by the laying on of the APOSTLE'S hands as noted in Acts 6:6, Acts 8:18 and Acts 19:6, and it was the apostles who performed the miraculous gifts of the Spirit as noted in Acts 5:12 and those that they laid their hands on such as Stephen as recoreded in Acts 6:6.
The scriptures prove themselves.
REPOST
Start with Luke 3:16 and Luke 24:47-49 both restated in Acts 1:4-5. What's it say? One will come that will baptize with the Holy Ghost and with fire, in Luke 3:16, and in Luke 24:47-49, it says repentance and remission of sins should be preached starting at Jerusalem and to tarry there until they received power from on high. And what's Acts 1:4-5,say? It restates both of these.4And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.And in Luke 24:47-49, who was this addressed to? Starting in verse 36 of Luke 24, Jesus appears to the APOSTLES and verses 47-49 is his instructions to them, the apostles.
47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48And ye are witnesses of these things. 49And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
Then Acts 1:8 says the following
8But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth
It's clear that the falling of the Holy Ghost with fire was meant for THE APOSTLE'S as well as the power from on high, and that this occurred as recorded in Acts 2; read it all carefully.
Futher, Acts 10 was also a unique demonstration of the Holy Ghost and unilaterally by the Holy Ghost falling on the Gentiles first and unlike Acts 2 where it fell on the apostles, but also as a sign and validation from on high which there validated it was God's plan to bring the Gentiles into the body of Christ. In that case, it was validation to Peter and company. It fell on the Gentiles prior to baptism but they were then immediately baptized. Why? Because that's how you become part of the Lord's body; you're baptized into Christ as noted in scripture such as Acts 2:38-47 and elsewhere.
The power from on high and the miraculous manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit, not the Spirit itself, but it's gifts as noted in 1 Cor 12:8-10, are manifested by the laying on of the APOSTLE'S hands as noted in Acts 6:6, Acts 8:18 and Acts 19:6, and it was the apostles who performed the miraculous gifts of the Spirit as noted in Acts 5:12 and those that they laid their hands on such as Stephen as recoreded in Acts 6:6.
The scriptures prove themselves.
so thats all you have? You can't counter me..
well again, That just further strengthens my position.
Once again, Baptism is an action verb, just like any action verb it should be used as such using the rules of language. sadly people take it and make a religion term out of it. thus destroying its meaning
well again, That just further strengthens my position.
Once again, Baptism is an action verb, just like any action verb it should be used as such using the rules of language. sadly people take it and make a religion term out of it. thus destroying its meaning
I understand it completely.
Matt 3: 11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”
John uses a farming term here. a winnowing fan.
The fan (represented by the baptism of the spirit) seperates the children of God (the wheat) from those who are not his children (the chaff)
the wheat will be placed in the barn (heaven)
the chaff will be burned with a fire that shall never be quenched (Hell fire)
so everyone will be baptized by God.. you need to chose. by the spirit or by fire.
Matt 3: 11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”
John uses a farming term here. a winnowing fan.
The fan (represented by the baptism of the spirit) seperates the children of God (the wheat) from those who are not his children (the chaff)
the wheat will be placed in the barn (heaven)
the chaff will be burned with a fire that shall never be quenched (Hell fire)
so everyone will be baptized by God.. you need to chose. by the spirit or by fire.
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And so, what of these Scriptures?:
Summary of: Three baptisms, Rightly Divided, Within God's Contexts:
(1) Prophecy/Covenants/Law for ISRAEL:
water baptism was man's operation, Commanded by God
to John the baptizer, and then by Christ to:
►►► The Twelve apostles who Were Sent to {water} baptize! ◄◄◄
The TWO Main (of 12) baptismS =
A) water, For remission of sins/induction into Israeli "priesthood!":
(Matthew_3:5-6; Mark_1:4; Luke_3:3; John_1:31; Luke 7:29-30; Acts_10:37)
(Matthew_28:19; Mark_16:16; Acts_2:38, 22:16; Ezekiel_36:25)
+
This Is The Baptism That "Christ Performed" after ascending Into Heaven:
B) Baptism WITH The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for
power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah_44:3; Matthew_3:11; Mark_1:8, 16:17-18;
Luke_24:49; Acts_2:17-18, 38, 8:15-17, 11:16)
Prophecy/Covenants/Law
Q: Are these TWO "still Required" By God, for us, Today, Under Grace?
Bible Answer:
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:
(2) Mystery/GRACE! =
our "apostle to the Gentiles" for The Body Of CHRIST:
►►► Paul Was Not Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?: ◄◄◄
Today: Only ONE Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION,
Spiritually Identifying members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!!
(Ephesians_4:5; Colossians_2:12; Galatians_3:27;
Romans_6:3-4; ►►► 1 Corinthians 12:13 KJB ◄◄◄)
Is it not bad math teaching Two baptisms, Under Grace?
----------------
FULL study of God's ONE ( Spiritual ) Baptism for today's Dispensation of Grace...
And, Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II).
Grace, Peace, And JOY!… + RICH Blessings
Summary of: Three baptisms, Rightly Divided, Within God's Contexts:
(1) Prophecy/Covenants/Law for ISRAEL:
water baptism was man's operation, Commanded by God
to John the baptizer, and then by Christ to:
►►► The Twelve apostles who Were Sent to {water} baptize! ◄◄◄
The TWO Main (of 12) baptismS =
A) water, For remission of sins/induction into Israeli "priesthood!":
(Matthew_3:5-6; Mark_1:4; Luke_3:3; John_1:31; Luke 7:29-30; Acts_10:37)
(Matthew_28:19; Mark_16:16; Acts_2:38, 22:16; Ezekiel_36:25)
+
This Is The Baptism That "Christ Performed" after ascending Into Heaven:
B) Baptism WITH The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for
power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah_44:3; Matthew_3:11; Mark_1:8, 16:17-18;
Luke_24:49; Acts_2:17-18, 38, 8:15-17, 11:16)
Prophecy/Covenants/Law
Q: Are these TWO "still Required" By God, for us, Today, Under Grace?
Bible Answer:
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:
(2) Mystery/GRACE! =
our "apostle to the Gentiles" for The Body Of CHRIST:
►►► Paul Was Not Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?: ◄◄◄
Today: Only ONE Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION,
Spiritually Identifying members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!!
(Ephesians_4:5; Colossians_2:12; Galatians_3:27;
Romans_6:3-4; ►►► 1 Corinthians 12:13 KJB ◄◄◄)
Is it not bad math teaching Two baptisms, Under Grace?
----------------
FULL study of God's ONE ( Spiritual ) Baptism for today's Dispensation of Grace...
And, Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II).
Grace, Peace, And JOY!… + RICH Blessings
“John appeared, baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. And all the country of Judea and all Jerusalem were going out to him and were being baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins. Now John was clothed with camel’s hair and wore a leather belt around his waist and ate locusts and wild honey. And he preached, saying, “After me comes he who is mightier than I, the strap of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie. I have baptized you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.””
Mark 1:4-8 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/mrk.1.4-8.ESV
When John the Baptist told people that Jesus would baptize them with the Holy Spirit was that not true? He isn’t saying this only to Apostles and the House of Cornelius. This is what he was preaching to everyone.
Mark 1:4-8 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/mrk.1.4-8.ESV
When John the Baptist told people that Jesus would baptize them with the Holy Spirit was that not true? He isn’t saying this only to Apostles and the House of Cornelius. This is what he was preaching to everyone.
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Your injecting Thirteen Bible baptisms is an attempt to muddy the waters on this issue. An attempt to cast doubt on the ability to understand what is simply meant.
Regardless of how many times you can come up with obscure understandings of immersion in the Bible, it still states ONE BAPTISM.
If someone said that they are taking a bath, they do not need to add water to the term.
Can we come up with hundreds of other things to bathe in, of course.
But unless a qualifier is added a bath is with water.
Unless you are playing word games.
Regardless of how many times you can come up with obscure understandings of immersion in the Bible, it still states ONE BAPTISM.
If someone said that they are taking a bath, they do not need to add water to the term.
Can we come up with hundreds of other things to bathe in, of course.
But unless a qualifier is added a bath is with water.
Unless you are playing word games.
Luke 24:47 is absolutely a very important verse. We see it translated “repentance and forgiveness of sins”. If you look at the oldest manuscripts of Luke (P75, Sinaiticus, Vaticanus) you will see that the greek word used is eis and not kai. If you translate eis like it is translated in Acts 2:38 you have ”repentance for the forgiveness of sins.” This is the way you will find Luke 24:47 in the ESV. Is this what Jesus told the Apostles to proclaim in his name, “repentance for the forgiveness of sins”? If so, then why do we see baptism for the forgiveness of sins being proclaimed?
I believe this passage gives some insight into this problem.
“And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead. To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.””
Acts 10:42-43 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/act.10.42-43.ESV
Isn’t this Peter remembering what Jesus taught the Apostles in Luke 24:44-49? Since metanoia/repentance means tho think differently or have a change of mind, isn’t repentance for the forgiveness of sins the same as believing and receiving forgiveness of sins?
I believe this passage gives some insight into this problem.
“And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead. To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.””
Acts 10:42-43 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/act.10.42-43.ESV
Isn’t this Peter remembering what Jesus taught the Apostles in Luke 24:44-49? Since metanoia/repentance means tho think differently or have a change of mind, isn’t repentance for the forgiveness of sins the same as believing and receiving forgiveness of sins?
What about the prophecy in Joel from Acts 2?
“But this is what was uttered through the prophet Joel: “‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams; even on my male servants and female servants in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy. And I will show wonders in the heavens above and signs on the earth below, blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke; the sun shall be turned to darkness and the moon to blood, before the day of the Lord comes, the great and magnificent day. And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.’”
Acts 2:16-21 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/act.2.16-21.ESV
Who are the sons and daughters, the young men and the old men, the male servants and female servants?
“But this is what was uttered through the prophet Joel: “‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams; even on my male servants and female servants in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy. And I will show wonders in the heavens above and signs on the earth below, blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke; the sun shall be turned to darkness and the moon to blood, before the day of the Lord comes, the great and magnificent day. And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.’”
Acts 2:16-21 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/act.2.16-21.ESV
Who are the sons and daughters, the young men and the old men, the male servants and female servants?
The falling of the Holy Ghost subsequently was manifested by the laying on of the apostle's hands as the various scriptures say. No other way did the manifestation of the Spirit occur other than Acts 2 and acts 10, and in both cases, the Holy Ghost fell unilaterally without the laying on of their hands since it was for a unique purpose on both occasions: to begin the church.
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you have completely, or conveniently, overlooked the PURPOSE of what Paul was saying. It was not that he was not supposed to baptize anyone, it was his rebuttal of anyone claiming to be superior to someone else simply because "Paul baptized me" He was saying that his main task was to evangelize..... if he was not supposed to baptize, why did he do it?
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The qualifier in your statement is "into christ".
Without a qualifier a shower is with water.
Without a qualifier baptism means with water.
If someone told you to buy a bag of ice, would you come back with dry ice?
Of course not. It's tacit.
You are struggling with this simple notion because it undermines your theology.
Without a qualifier a shower is with water.
Without a qualifier baptism means with water.
If someone told you to buy a bag of ice, would you come back with dry ice?
Of course not. It's tacit.
You are struggling with this simple notion because it undermines your theology.
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