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● Gen 42:38 . . My son must not go down with you, for his brother is dead
and he alone is left. If he meets with disaster on the journey you are taking,
you will send my white head down to sheol in grief.
Some translators render sheol as the grave; a place to inter a corpse. But
though sheol can include one's grave; it's not the whole picture.
A specific Old Testament word for grave is qeber (keh'-ber) which first
appears in Gen 23:4, and something like 67 instances thereafter.
Qeber is the equivalent of the New Testament word mnemeion (mnay-mi'
on). It first appears at Matt 8:28, and something like 41 instances
thereafter; for example Matt 27:52-53, Matt 27:59-60, John 11:18, John
11:38, and John 12:17.
According to 1Thess 5:23, human life consists of at least three components:
body, soul, and spirit. Though the body is easily killed, the soul can only be
killed by the hand of God. (Matt 10:28, Luke 12:4-5) so that when people
pass away, they don't automatically cease to exist.
* Solomon wrote somewhat about the afterlife in the book of Ecclesiastes;
but he wrote from the perspective of a man "under the sun" whereas Jesus
spoke of the afterlife as a man from Heaven (John 3:13). In my book, Jesus
is the one to hear in matters related to the afterlife because he's actually
seen it for himself, and his information trumps Solomon's.
● Matt 12:42 . .The queen of the south will be raised up in the judgment
with this generation and will condemn it; because she came from the ends of
the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon, but, look! something more than
Solomon is here.
● John 3:31 . . The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is
from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The
one who comes from heaven is above all.
And Jesus comes highly recommended too.
● Matt 17:5 . . This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved; listen to
him.
So then, when encountering remarks in the book of Ecclesiastes that are out
of step with Jesus; my unsolicited spiritual counseling is to take Solomon's
world view with a grain of salt and go with the heavenly view taught by "my
Son".
● John 8:12 . . I am the light of the world. He that follows me will by no
means walk in darkness, but will possess the light of life.
_
● Gen 42:38 . . My son must not go down with you, for his brother is dead
and he alone is left. If he meets with disaster on the journey you are taking,
you will send my white head down to sheol in grief.
Some translators render sheol as the grave; a place to inter a corpse. But
though sheol can include one's grave; it's not the whole picture.
A specific Old Testament word for grave is qeber (keh'-ber) which first
appears in Gen 23:4, and something like 67 instances thereafter.
Qeber is the equivalent of the New Testament word mnemeion (mnay-mi'
on). It first appears at Matt 8:28, and something like 41 instances
thereafter; for example Matt 27:52-53, Matt 27:59-60, John 11:18, John
11:38, and John 12:17.
According to 1Thess 5:23, human life consists of at least three components:
body, soul, and spirit. Though the body is easily killed, the soul can only be
killed by the hand of God. (Matt 10:28, Luke 12:4-5) so that when people
pass away, they don't automatically cease to exist.
* Solomon wrote somewhat about the afterlife in the book of Ecclesiastes;
but he wrote from the perspective of a man "under the sun" whereas Jesus
spoke of the afterlife as a man from Heaven (John 3:13). In my book, Jesus
is the one to hear in matters related to the afterlife because he's actually
seen it for himself, and his information trumps Solomon's.
● Matt 12:42 . .The queen of the south will be raised up in the judgment
with this generation and will condemn it; because she came from the ends of
the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon, but, look! something more than
Solomon is here.
● John 3:31 . . The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is
from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The
one who comes from heaven is above all.
And Jesus comes highly recommended too.
● Matt 17:5 . . This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved; listen to
him.
So then, when encountering remarks in the book of Ecclesiastes that are out
of step with Jesus; my unsolicited spiritual counseling is to take Solomon's
world view with a grain of salt and go with the heavenly view taught by "my
Son".
● John 8:12 . . I am the light of the world. He that follows me will by no
means walk in darkness, but will possess the light of life.
_
You explain well, and this has been stated several times in other threads.
This is not about scripture with people who believe in soul sleep, conditional immortality or annihilation or whatever combination of them, these ideas have become solidified in their mind through repetition and it becomes nearly impossible to dislodge.
“Man goes to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets … then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it” (Eccl. 12:5, 7).
Seven verses later in Ecclesiastes 12:14, we are warned again that we will be judged by God.
For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil. Ecclesiastes 12:14 (NASB)
The spirit lives on beyond this earthly realm.
Life and death are two states of existence, it is not existence and non existence, scripture does not teach this.
[OP question] "Where was Jesus for the three days between his death and resurrection?"
His body went to the grave;
His spirit went to the Father:
"And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend/commit [G3908] my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost [G1606]." - Lk23:46. IOW, His spirit didn't die (but went immediately to the Father).
His body went to the grave;
His spirit went to the Father:
"And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend/commit [G3908] my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost [G1606]." - Lk23:46. IOW, His spirit didn't die (but went immediately to the Father).
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FAQ: In standard Bibles; Jesus told one of his fellow prisoners that they
would be in paradise the very day of their deaths (Luke 23:43). But three
days later he told Mary Magdalena that he had not yet ascended to his
Father (John 20:17). How do you reconcile Jesus' statements in standard
Bibles?
REPLY: Well, of one thing we can be very certain: when Jesus died, he didn't
go up; quite the opposite direction: he went down. (Matt 12:40, Ps 16:9-10,
and Acts 2:25-31)
Paradise is structured such that its elements exist in more than one place.
For example: a city park system consists of any number of parks located in
any number of places, yet each individual park can still be correctly called a
city park.
For another example; the Pacific Crest Trail (a.k.a. PCT) traverses the
north/south length of three states-- California, Oregon, and Washington. No
matter where trekkers might be located on the trail at any given moment -
whether south at mile No.1 in Campo San Diego, or 2,140 trail-miles to the
north at Cascade Locks Oregon —they're all on the very same PCT
regardless of which State they happen to be passing thru.
Paradise is sort of like that. There's a section of it in the netherworld (Luke
16:19-31) another in a secret region called the third heaven (2Cor 12:2-4)
and yet another situated with God. (Rev 2:7)
_
FAQ: In standard Bibles; Jesus told one of his fellow prisoners that they
would be in paradise the very day of their deaths (Luke 23:43). But three
days later he told Mary Magdalena that he had not yet ascended to his
Father (John 20:17). How do you reconcile Jesus' statements in standard
Bibles?
REPLY: Well, of one thing we can be very certain: when Jesus died, he didn't
go up; quite the opposite direction: he went down. (Matt 12:40, Ps 16:9-10,
and Acts 2:25-31)
Paradise is structured such that its elements exist in more than one place.
For example: a city park system consists of any number of parks located in
any number of places, yet each individual park can still be correctly called a
city park.
For another example; the Pacific Crest Trail (a.k.a. PCT) traverses the
north/south length of three states-- California, Oregon, and Washington. No
matter where trekkers might be located on the trail at any given moment -
whether south at mile No.1 in Campo San Diego, or 2,140 trail-miles to the
north at Cascade Locks Oregon —they're all on the very same PCT
regardless of which State they happen to be passing thru.
Paradise is sort of like that. There's a section of it in the netherworld (Luke
16:19-31) another in a secret region called the third heaven (2Cor 12:2-4)
and yet another situated with God. (Rev 2:7)
_
.. who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.
1 Timothy 6:16
Life and death are two types of existence.
God can never experience the one called "death."
Those without God will exist in death.
Problem solved.
Next...
1 Timothy 6:16
Life and death are two types of existence.
God can never experience the one called "death."
Those without God will exist in death.
Problem solved.
Next...
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.. who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.
1 Timothy 6:16
Life and death are two types of existence.
God can never experience the one called "death."
Those without God will exist in death.
Problem solved.
Next...
1 Timothy 6:16
Life and death are two types of existence.
God can never experience the one called "death."
Those without God will exist in death.
Problem solved.
Next...
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1 Samuel 28
7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.
8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee.
9 And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?
10 And Saul sware to her by the Lord, saying, As the Lord liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing.
11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.
12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.
13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.
14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.
15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.
16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the Lord is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?
17 And the Lord hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the Lord hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbour, even to David:
18 Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the Lord, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the Lord done this thing unto thee this day.
19 Moreover the Lord will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the Lord also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.
20 Then Saul fell straightway all along on the earth, and was sore afraid, because of the words of Samuel: and there was no strength in him; for he had eaten no bread all the day, nor all the night.
Everything that Samuel told him was true and did come to pass. It was not some evil spirit, but Samuel. The Bible is clear.
7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.
8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee.
9 And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?
10 And Saul sware to her by the Lord, saying, As the Lord liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing.
11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.
12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.
13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.
14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.
15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.
16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the Lord is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?
17 And the Lord hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the Lord hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbour, even to David:
18 Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the Lord, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the Lord done this thing unto thee this day.
19 Moreover the Lord will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the Lord also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.
20 Then Saul fell straightway all along on the earth, and was sore afraid, because of the words of Samuel: and there was no strength in him; for he had eaten no bread all the day, nor all the night.
Everything that Samuel told him was true and did come to pass. It was not some evil spirit, but Samuel. The Bible is clear.
Another person, same destination....
Luk 23:43
And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
1Th 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit g4151 and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co 5:5
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit g4151 may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
And here again is that juxtaposition between the two disparate destinations.....
Luk 12:5
But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
Mat 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: G2851 but the righteous into life eternal.
Luk 23:43
And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
1Th 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit g4151 and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co 5:5
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit g4151 may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
And here again is that juxtaposition between the two disparate destinations.....
Luk 12:5
But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
Mat 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: G2851 but the righteous into life eternal.
.. who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.
1 Timothy 6:16
Life and death are two types of existence.
God can never experience the one called "death."
Those without God will exist in death.
Problem solved.
Next...
1 Timothy 6:16
Life and death are two types of existence.
God can never experience the one called "death."
Those without God will exist in death.
Problem solved.
Next...
Mat 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: G2851 but the righteous into life eternal.
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Jonah died and went to sheol. The grave. The place where dead people go. In that place there is no thought, reason, emotion, and people who are there cannot praise God. They are dead.
Jonah would have had time to pray before he died, and also he prayed after he was resurrected.
Yep.
Also yep.
Jonah would have had time to pray before he died, and also he prayed after he was resurrected.
Yep.
Also yep.
"I agree and don't wanna come across as condemning. My brother acually goes to a Mennonite church and one of my closest friends is a Mennonite. There are induviduals everywhere that are fakes; it's not limited to a certain group for sure. Just like there are sincere people in many groups."
Is the above post the one you mean? Maybe you misread "fakes" and thought it was "flakes"? I was meaning hypocrites because we were speaking of hypocrisy in churches. In the thread "How do I explain a breakup to young children?"
Is the above post the one you mean? Maybe you misread "fakes" and thought it was "flakes"? I was meaning hypocrites because we were speaking of hypocrisy in churches. In the thread "How do I explain a breakup to young children?"