Salvation is for the Whole World

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rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,883
645
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Lol roger You are like trying to catch a slippery grasshopper or watching a magic show where the guy has to distract from the clear point someone made so he can change the narrative

lol My friend I say that I’m jest but it’s quite remarkable to see the acrobatics
Is that the best you got?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,138
30,285
113
No they all taught Jesus has a God--The Israelites knew that fact-Psalm 45:7
John 5:18-23 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking
the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.


19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself;
he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son
also does. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, and he will show
him even greater works than these, so that you will be amazed. 21 For just as the Father raises
the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.
22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son,
23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not
honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.


Colossians 1:15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in Him all things
were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities.
All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.


Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

Whose blood? The blood of Jesus! Ergo, Jesus is God.:).Acts 20:28b

Isaiah 43:10,11 - “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen,
That you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God
formed, Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior.”


Isaiah 44:6- (God is the Redeemer)
2 Peter 1:1 (Jesus is the Redeemer) - “To those who have obtained like precious
faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ”


Isaiah 44:24 - (God created the world by Himself alone)
John 1:3; Colossians 1:16- (Jesus made all things)


John 10:30-33 - Jesus answered them, “I and My Father are one.” Then the Jews took up stones again
to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which
of those works do you stone Me?” The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone
You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”


John 14:9-11 - Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known
Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?”


John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,883
645
113
es that’s a reference to anyone that hears and believes the gospel and becomes part of the church.
No, you didn't understand the verse. It said their faith was given to them by the righteousness of Jesus Christ. It was not of themselves.

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s a definition of the church those who have obtained precious faith in Jesus, it’s to any believer thats what faith is someone who hears and believes Gods word

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬
True belief only comes as a fruit of the Sprit upon becoming born-again. It cannot be produced by man. Whenever
you read "believe" or "belief", etc, consider that as its prerequisite.

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,138
30,285
113
Philippians 2:5-7 - Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being
in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself
of no reputation, taking the form of a bond-servant, and coming in the likeness of men.

Colossians 2:9- For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,138
30,285
113
Jesus is the Rock of our salvation. God is the only Rock of our salvation.

Psalm 78:35
And they remembered that God was their rock, And the Most High God their Redeemer.

Genesis 49:24
But his bow remained firm, And his arms were agile, From the hands of the
Mighty One of Jacob (From there is the Shepherd, the Stone of Israel),

Deuteronomy 32:15
"But Jeshurun grew fat and kicked-- You are grown fat, thick, and sleek--
Then he forsook God who made him, And scorned the Rock of his salvation.

2 Samuel 23:3
"The God of Israel said, The Rock of Israel spoke to me,
'He who rules over men righteously, Who rules in the fear of God,

Psalm 42:9
I will say to God my rock, "Why have You forgotten me? Why do
I go mourning because of the oppression of the enemy?"

Isaiah 30:29
You will have songs as in the night when you keep the festival, And gladness of heart as when
one marches to the sound of the flute, To go to the mountain of the LORD, to the Rock of Israel.

Habakkuk 1:12
Are You not from everlasting, O LORD, my God, my Holy One? We will not die You, O LORD,
have appointed them to judge; And You, O Rock, have established them to correct.

2 Samuel 22:32
"For who is God, besides the LORD? And who is a rock, besides our God?

Psalm 18:31
For who is God, but the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God,

1 Samuel 2:2
"There is no one holy like the LORD, Indeed, there is no
one besides You, Nor is there any rock like our God.

Isaiah 44:8
'Do not tremble and do not be afraid; Have I not long since announced it to you and declared it?
And you are My witnesses Is there any God besides Me, Or is there any other Rock? I know of none.'"

Deuteronomy 32:31
"Indeed their rock is not like our Rock, Even our enemies themselves judge this.

Deuteronomy 32:37
"And He will say, 'Where are their gods, The rock in which they sought refuge?

Psalm 144:1
Blessed be the LORD, my rock, Who trains my hands for war, And my fingers for battle;

Deuteronomy 32:4
"The Rock! His work is perfect, For all His ways are just; A God of
faithfulness and without injustice, Righteous and upright is He.

Psalm 92:15
To declare that the LORD is upright; He is my rock, and there is no unrighteousness in Him.

Psalm 62:7
On God my salvation and my glory rest; The rock of my strength, my refuge is in God.

Psalm 28:1
To You, O LORD, I call; My rock, do not be deaf to me, For if You
are silent to me, I will become like those who go down to the pit.

Psalm 31:1-3
In You, O LORD, I have taken refuge; Let me never be ashamed; In Your righteousness deliver me. Incline Your ear to me, rescue me quickly; Be to me a rock of strength, A stronghold to save me. For You are my rock and my fortress; For Your name's sake You will lead me and guide me.

Psalm 61:2
From the end of the earth I call to You when my heart is faint; Lead me to the rock that is higher than I.

Psalm 71:3
Be to me a rock of habitation to which I may continually come; You have given
commandment to save me, For You are my rock and my fortress.

Isaiah 26:4
"Trust in the LORD forever, For in GOD the LORD, we have an everlasting Rock.

Psalm 94:22
But the LORD has been my stronghold, And my God the rock of my refuge.

2 Samuel 22:3
My God, my rock, in whom I take refuge, My shield and the horn of my salvation,
my stronghold and my refuge; My savior, You save me from violence.

Psalm 18:2
The LORD is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer, My God, my rock, in whom
I take refuge; My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.

Psalm 95:1
O come, let us sing for joy to the LORD, Let us shout joyfully to the rock of our salvation.

2 Samuel 22:47
"The LORD lives, and blessed be my rock; And exalted be God, the rock of my salvation,

Psalm 18:46
The LORD lives, and blessed be my rock; And exalted be the God of my salvation,
Psalm 19:14
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Your sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer.

Psalm 62:2
He only is my rock and my salvation, My stronghold; I shall not be greatly shaken.

Psalm 89:26
"He will cry to Me, 'You are my Father, My God, and the rock of my salvation.'

Isaiah 17:10
For you have forgotten the God of your salvation And have not remembered the rock of your
refuge. Therefore you plant delightful plants And set them with vine slips of a strange god.

Isaiah 8:14
"Then He shall become a sanctuary; But to both the houses of Israel, a stone to strike
and a rock to stumble over, And a snare and a trap for the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

Isaiah 28:16
Therefore thus says the Lord GOD, "Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a tested stone,A costly
cornerstone for the foundation, firmly placed. He who believes in it will not be disturbed.

Psalm 118:22
The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief corner stone.

Matthew 21:42
Jesus said to them, "Did you never read in the Scriptures, 'THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED,
THIS BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone; THIS CAME ABOUT FROM THE LORD, AND IT IS MARVELOUS IN OUR EYES'?

Mark 12:10
"Have you not even read this Scripture: 'THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone;

Luke 20:17
But Jesus looked at them and said, "What then is this that is written:
'THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone'?

Acts 4:11
"He is the STONE WHICH WAS REJECTED by you, THE BUILDERS, but WHICH BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone.

1 Peter 2:6-7
For this is contained in Scripture: "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER
stone, AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." This precious value, then,
is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve, "THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS
REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE VERY CORNER stone,"

Matthew 21:44
"And he who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; but on whomever it falls, it will scatter him like dust."

Luke 20:18
"Everyone who falls on that stone will be broken to pieces;
but on whomever it falls, it will scatter him like dust."

Romans 9:32-33
Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled
over the stumbling stone, just as it is written, "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A STONE OF STUMBLING
AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE, AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."

1 Peter 2:4-8
And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious
in the sight of God, you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood,
to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For this is contained in Scripture:
"BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER stone, AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."

Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name
under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.

 
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John 5:18-23 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking
the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.


19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself;
he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son
also does. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, and he will show
him even greater works than these, so that you will be amazed. 21 For just as the Father raises
the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.
22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son,
23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not
honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.


Colossians 1:15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in Him all things
were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities.
All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.


Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

Whose blood? The blood of Jesus! Ergo, Jesus is God.:).Acts 20:28b

Isaiah 43:10,11 - “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen,
That you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God
formed, Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior.”


Isaiah 44:6- (God is the Redeemer)
2 Peter 1:1 (Jesus is the Redeemer) - “To those who have obtained like precious
faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ”


Isaiah 44:24 - (God created the world by Himself alone)
John 1:3; Colossians 1:16- (Jesus made all things)


John 10:30-33 - Jesus answered them, “I and My Father are one.” Then the Jews took up stones again
to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which
of those works do you stone Me?” The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone
You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”


John 14:9-11 - Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known
Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?”


John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
Jesus called the Pharisees liars and their Father was the devil--Yet you believe Jesus committed blasphemy. That is what the Pharisees were saying. They had hearts filled with hatred for Jesus they never said a truth about him. Or did you believe them that Jesus got his power from Demons?
Jesus and his Father are one-in purpose( John 5:30) Jesus lives 24/7-365 to do his Fathers will. as do the true followers( Matt 7:21)
They saw the Father because Jesus was his image( Coll 1:15)
He also taught--The Father is greater than i.
So do you believe Jesus is YHWH? I can prove he is not.
 
Feb 5, 2023
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John 5:18-23 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking
the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.


19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself;
he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son
also does. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, and he will show
him even greater works than these, so that you will be amazed. 21 For just as the Father raises
the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.
22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son,
23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not
honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.


Colossians 1:15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in Him all things
were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities.
All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.


Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

Whose blood? The blood of Jesus! Ergo, Jesus is God.:).Acts 20:28b

Isaiah 43:10,11 - “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen,
That you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God
formed, Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior.”


Isaiah 44:6- (God is the Redeemer)
2 Peter 1:1 (Jesus is the Redeemer) - “To those who have obtained like precious
faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ”


Isaiah 44:24 - (God created the world by Himself alone)
John 1:3; Colossians 1:16- (Jesus made all things)


John 10:30-33 - Jesus answered them, “I and My Father are one.” Then the Jews took up stones again
to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which
of those works do you stone Me?” The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone
You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”


John 14:9-11 - Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known
Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?”


John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
Jesus called the Pharisees liars and their Father was the devil--Yet you believe Jesus committed blasphemy. That is what the Pharisees were saying. They had hearts filled with hatred for Jesus they never said a truth about him. Or did you believe them that Jesus got his power from Demons?
Jesus and his Father are one-in purpose( John 5:30) Jesus lives 24/7-365 to do his Fathers will. as do the true followers( Matt 7:21)
They saw the Father because Jesus was his image( Coll 1:15)
He also taught--The Father is greater than i.
So do you believe Jesus is YHWH? I can prove he is not.
This Verse is how it is written in the Oldest Greek Text still in existence:

That clearly shows us in Verse 1 that John called the WORD...God!
Not in the Greek Lexicons which all translations come from( NT)--The true God is called-HoTheos= God at John 1:1, The word is called Plain Theos=god. The whole reason they are called different= a capitol G God and a small g god.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,138
30,285
113
Yet you believe Jesus committed blasphemy.
Wrong again. Just like I do not believe He broke the Sabbath. Jesus was and is sinless.

But the Pharisees understood what Jesus was saying about Himself. You do not.

"Before Abraham was, I AM." <= the words of Jesus.

So do you believe Jesus is YHWH? I can prove he is not.
If you try hard enough, you will get yourself banned for doing so. Just a heads' up- ;)
 
Jun 20, 2022
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Jesus called the Pharisees liars and their Father was the devil--Yet you believe Jesus committed blasphemy. That is what the Pharisees were saying. They had hearts filled with hatred for Jesus they never said a truth about him. Or did you believe them that Jesus got his power from Demons?
Jesus and his Father are one-in purpose( John 5:30) Jesus lives 24/7-365 to do his Fathers will. as do the true followers( Matt 7:21)
They saw the Father because Jesus was his image( Coll 1:15)
He also taught--The Father is greater than i.
So do you believe Jesus is YHWH? I can prove he is not.


Not in the Greek Lexicons which all translations come from( NT)--The true God is called-HoTheos= God at John 1:1, The word is called Plain Theos=god. The whole reason they are called different= a capitol G God and a small g god.
A LEXICON IS PURELY OPINION ONLY!

Seriously, you are going to believe a MODERN DAY Interpretation over how Jerome translated it, a Person, well versed in several languages and had access to actual 1st Century Greek Text?

Tell me you're not serious?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,075
6,883
113
62
There is a difference between the desires that God expresses and His will. Many times the 2 are conflated.

If you say it is God's will that all should be saved and you also say that some are not saved, you are also saying that God is not omnipotent or sovereign...that He cannot fulfill what He has willed.

Consider the impact of that upon your own salvation. Whether or not you feel some can lose their salvation or not, you call into question God's ability to keep you saved.
 
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Wrong again. Just like I do not believe He broke the Sabbath. Jesus was and is sinless.

But the Pharisees understood what Jesus was saying about Himself. You do not.

"Before Abraham was, I AM." <= the words of Jesus.


If you try hard enough, you will get yourself banned for doing so. Just a heads' up-;)
The Hebrew scholars say that OT statement does not translate-i am that i am--more like- i will prove to be what i will prove to be. Jesus only answered the pharisees honestly-he lived before Abraham. I share facts.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,656
5,908
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Is that the best you got?
No , I just have no energy to go in the humongous hypergrace grace evasion circle again Gods grace that saves grace teaches repentance o know that not because I’m special or smart I’m not some guy asking you to buy my book or promote myself in any way

I know that because Paul wrote it and sent it to the church which includes anyone wanting to understand Gods grace rether than say the word “ grace “ and nothing else applies it’s all written to someone else , it’s just a foolish circle between us and I don’t have the energy spiritually and mentally is the thing

This is truth about Gods grace that saves all men

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s not a mystery it’s an apostle of Jesus cjrost saying a plain statement of the Holy Spirit th res nothing personalized about it it’s just truth believers can accept or reject it’s what Paul says but here’s the issue

ashen you constantly remove anything else Paul’s letters your removing rhe part that teaches you that “you have to stop living after ungodliness and worldly lusts “

rhats why in the same letters Paul tells us we’re saved by grace he tells us this same thing

“Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; and walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when hypergracers remove that stern warning by Paul repeated in all his epistles about not continuing on in sinful lives like we did before or we will lose the inheritance he’s told us about in earlier chapters , your removing Gods actual grace that will change your mind and bring repentance

its not meant to accept what sounds good in the epistles to my itching ears and then reject the rhknfs teschkng me to repent “ I’m saved by the verse in chapter two , so therefore chapter five doesn’t apply to me “

It’s the other grace in the Bible when they do that

No one could ever change like that because they are binding themself with this type of grace that says “ whatever I do good or bad I’m already saved I need not obey “ that mind comes from this

“For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Jude‬ ‭1:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Lasciviousness is basically they are creating a liscense to continue sinning by denying the need for this part of Gods saving grace this is part of what saves mankind “by grace “

the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world “

all those things are in the letters and gospels because it’s part of what we need to believe not something we remove and claim isnt for Christian’s
 
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A LEXICON IS PURELY OPINION ONLY!

Seriously, you are going to believe a MODERN DAY Interpretation over how Jerome translated it, a Person, well versed in several languages and had access to actual 1st Century Greek Text?

Tell me you're not serious?
Jerome translated the Latin Vulgate--He as well told the Catholic leader that Gods personal name belongs in the NT. Every spot where the OT is quoted and its in the OT. Hard to tell when one is forced to use altered versions to mislead. One should really be asking--Since God inspired his name in 7000 places, And was removed by satans will. Why do our translations support satans will over Gods will?
Greek lexicons are trinity translating.
 
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Among other things, such as false accusations.
The pharisees accused Jesus of blasphemy for the statements he made. The Pharisees were apostocised, they didnt even recognize the one God sent to them. Jesus called them liars for that accusation and their father was the devil. So their words are not to be believed. Just like they said Jesus got his power from Demons--They were liars, mislead.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,656
5,908
113
There is a difference between the desires that God expresses and His will. Many times the 2 are conflated.

If you say it is God's will that all should be saved and you also say that some are not saved, you are also saying that God is not omnipotent or sovereign...that He cannot fulfill what He has willed.

Consider the impact of that upon your own salvation. Whether or not you feel some can lose their salvation or not, you call into question God's ability to keep you saved.
Who will be saved ?

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Both statements are true and the judgement is set forever and applies to every creature

does everyone in the world believe the gospel ? Or do some believe and others deny ?

Its Gods sword to divide the earth between darkness and light forever