Past sins forgiven

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Ted01 said:
I can't agree with you on this idea... Jesus is risen.... alive and well.
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Yes alive and well taken up by God to return - but did not die for our sins. Resurrected are like angels / spirits - Jesus was clear that he was not.

Luke 24:39 see my hands and my feet, that I am he; handle me and see, because a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me having.'

Also Psalm 22

5 Unto Thee they cried, and were delivered, In Thee they trusted, and were not ashamed.

16 And to the dust of death thou appointest me, For surrounded me have dogs, A company of evil doers have compassed me, Piercing my hands and my feet.
[piercing has been mistranslated – it comes from the Hebrew word ‘Ka-a-ri’ – this translates to ‘like a lion’. The same word is translated in “Isaiah 38: 13 I reckoned till morning, that, as a lion, so will he break all my bones: from day even to night wilt thou make an end of me.”] – some more examples;
Numbers 23:24 (veka'ari), and I as a young lion
Numbers 24:9 (ka'ari), like a lion
Ezekiel 22:25 (ka'ari), like a lion

Psalms 22:21 - 21 Save me from the mouth of a lion: -- And -- from the horns of the high places Thou hast answered me!

24 For He hath not despised, nor abominated, The affliction of the afflicted, Nor hath He hidden His face from him, And in his crying unto Him He heareth.

Psalm 34:20 He is keeping all his bones, One of them hath not been broken.

Father, I thank thee that thou heardest me. And I knew that thou hearest me always." (John 11:41-42).

Jesus cried to be saved and was heard - not a single bone was broken. If they had pierced his feet & hands - likely one bone would have been broken.

I could say much more but don't want to make it too long - No evidence in the OT that Jesus was going to be crucified for our sins.
 
anothertheory said:
Yes alive and well taken up by God to return - but did not die for our sins. Resurrected are like angels / spirits - Jesus was clear that he was not.

Luke 24:39 see my hands and my feet, that I am he; handle me and see, because a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me having.'

Also Psalm 22

5 Unto Thee they cried, and were delivered, In Thee they trusted, and were not ashamed.

16 And to the dust of death thou appointest me, For surrounded me have dogs, A company of evil doers have compassed me, Piercing my hands and my feet.
[piercing has been mistranslated – it comes from the Hebrew word ‘Ka-a-ri’ – this translates to ‘like a lion’. The same word is translated in “Isaiah 38: 13 I reckoned till morning, that, as a lion, so will he break all my bones: from day even to night wilt thou make an end of me.”] – some more examples;
Numbers 23:24 (veka'ari), and I as a young lion
Numbers 24:9 (ka'ari), like a lion
Ezekiel 22:25 (ka'ari), like a lion

Psalms 22:21 - 21 Save me from the mouth of a lion: -- And -- from the horns of the high places Thou hast answered me!

24 For He hath not despised, nor abominated, The affliction of the afflicted, Nor hath He hidden His face from him, And in his crying unto Him He heareth.

Psalm 34:20 He is keeping all his bones, One of them hath not been broken.

Father, I thank thee that thou heardest me. And I knew that thou hearest me always." (John 11:41-42).

Jesus cried to be saved and was heard - not a single bone was broken. If they had pierced his feet & hands - likely one bone would have been broken.

I could say much more but don't want to make it too long - No evidence in the OT that Jesus was going to be crucified for our sins.
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I'm still unclear about what you're trying to communicate? Sorry, I'm sometimes a bit dense.
But if you don't think that Jesus died for our sins, do you have an idea as to why He had to die at all... as the Scripture already posted show that Jesus did indeed lay down His life by His own accord and according to the will of His Father?

Also, why is it important to you that Jesus' death needs to be specifically foretold in the OT? Isn't it good enough that Jesus said that it was necessary?

And just curious... are you saying that a proper rendering of Psalm 22:16 would be:

And to the dust of death thou appointest me, For surrounded me have dogs, A company of evil doers have compassed me, like a lion my hands and my feet.

That would seem a bit strange to me?
 
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Ted01 said:
And just curious... are you saying that a proper rendering of Psalm 22:16 would be:

And to the dust of death thou appointest me, For surrounded me have dogs, A company of evil doers have compassed me, like a lion my hands and my feet.

That would seem a bit strange to me?
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That is the literal translation.
 
anothertheory said:
This is sacrifice of animals - not human sacrifice
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You said "sacrifice" is not God's idea.
That's clearly false.

But Adam willingly laid down his own life to be with his wife - both the first Adam, in sin, and the last, in righteousness.
 
anothertheory said:
Jesus did not object to GOD Almighty's. This is also wrong, because again, Jesus cried during the crucifixion "My GOD my GOD why have you forsaken me?", and he also prayed Endlessly Matthew 26:36-44, Luke 6:12)]
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You do not understand what you read.

Psalm 22 is a song with a name, it is "the hind of the morning"

Israel is the hind.

He is not speaking about Himself when He sings it - He is speaking of Israel, quoting the song - and the hind is mistaken about being forsaken: see v. 24

God is on the cross saving them, singing to them their song that begins in doubt and ends in faith.
 
So Psalm 22:29 seem to state that he does indeed die, right?

29 All the prosperous of the earth eat and worship;
before him shall bow all who go down to the dust,
even the one who could not keep himself alive.
 
God forgives each and every sin of the person who is a believer (walking in the light - I John 1). His blood is ongoing cleansing us from each and every sin (as they are committed) - I John 1:7. For the believer, God does not condemn or write our sins against us. His Son paid the price of our sins with His blood.

For the unbeliever, he has no such promise. It takes only one sin - and the wages = death!!

At conversion one's past sins are forgiven, and from there on as one believes in Jesus, his blood ongoingly cleanses us from each and every sin we may commit.
 
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Webers.Home said:
.



According to Acts 2:29-30, David was prophet. As such he knew things
about Christ (1Pet 1:10-11) and no doubt one of the things he knew before
any of us knew it was this:

"I assure you; those who listen to my message, and believe in God who sent
me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they
have already passed from death into life." (John 5:24)

I'm positive David took advantage of Christ because he wrote:

"Blessed is the man whose sin The Lord will never count against him". (Rom
4:8)

Within the terms and conditions of the covenant that Moses' people agreed
upon with God in the Old Testament there is forgiveness, cleansing, and
pardon, but there is no wiping one's slate clean. In other words: the
covenant doesn't provide folks with an acquittal; which can be defined as a
ruling of innocence due to a lack of sufficient evidence to convict. As a
result: pardons, cleansing, and forgiveness within the covenant are merely
reprieves and leave justice for the people's sins hanging over their heads
like a sword of Damocles.

When Christianity's atonement system is fully and intelligently explained, it
is often accused of granting folks a license to steal. Well; without a license to
steal, so to speak, nobody has the slightest chance of escaping the terrible
retribution depicted by Isa 66:23-24 and Rev 20:11-15 because books are
to be opened and histories to be examined. The best way to deal that is to
make very sure there are zero negative entries affixed to one's name so that
on the books it appears that they have never been anything but 100%
innocent their entire lives.

"God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins
against them". (2Cor 5:19)

Now that we know a wipe is possible; how do we obtain it? Well; I suggest
going after it with this simple prayer:

God I know I'm a sinner, and I am afraid of those books. I would like to take
advantage of your son's death, if I may.
_
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There can be no doubt that David's sin was put away as Nathan told him "you shall not die"

he said

2.Samuel 12
".... now therefore the sword shall never depart from your house....

behold I will raise up evil against you out of your own house and I will take your wives before your eyes and give them to your neighbour and he shall lie with your wives in the sight of the sun ... the child that is born to you shall die"

These things came to pass in the rebellion of Absalom his beloved son when he usurped the throne, David had to bewail the death of Absalom the young man who was the apple of his eye.
 
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Underwhosewings said:
A prayer of David

Psalm 86:5 KJV
For thou, Lord, art good, and ready to forgive; and plenteous in mercy unto all them that call upon thee.
1 John 1:9 KJV
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
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1.John.7.
.... the blood of Jesus God's Son cleanseth us from all unrighteousness.
 
anothertheory said:
b) Jesus did not object to GOD Almighty's. This is also wrong,
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If you have the position that Christ is "objecting" to God's plan, then even setting aside the absurdity of God objecting to Himself, your position is that Jesus is effectively calling God evil.

This is an untenable position.
 
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Ted01 said:
Thanks for confirming it... I looked it up too.

So what do lions do to his feet and hands?
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Great question
The Bible as it turns out, is not simple!

I can't say I have that sorted out, not hardly, but there is an idea of tearing - and this isn't just Christ on the cross - taking the place of Israel symbolically - but Israel spiritually, because Psalm 22 is primarily about Israel: they are the hind of the morning, chased down, hunted and being torn apart and broken by their enemies, yet still being saved: not forsaken. It is in unbelief that they said in the wilderness, 'God has brought us out of Egypt only to kills us, our children and our animals' - i.e. accusing God of evil and of unfaithfulness, forsaking them - and for that sin He gave them over to physical death, but preserved a remnant and will one day fully redeem them.

The right way to solve this imo is to find every mention of lions, hands and feet, and put them all together. They tell a story, a story testifying of Christ - His person and His work. Central in that story is His people, their adultery, their unbelief, their persecution and their ultimate redemption through God Himself, the Lion of Judah, making propitiation and redeeming them to Himself.

So in part at least this is about Samson finding honey in a lions corpse. Touching it, gathering the honey, breaking the nazarite vow by coming into contact with a corpse, yet not being defiled - saving Israel. he is a very complex type, both of Christ and antichrist.

Scriois amazing.
When we find something like this - "like a lion my hands and my feet" - that is bewildering, it means there is deep, great treasure here to be found, to be searched out. It may take a lifetime, but it is more than gold, to understand, to know Him. It is life eternal
 
anothertheory said:
Yes alive and well taken up by God to return - but did not die for our sins. Resurrected are like angels / spirits - Jesus was clear that he was not.

Luke 24:39 see my hands and my feet, that I am he; handle me and see, because a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me having.'

Also Psalm 22

5 Unto Thee they cried, and were delivered, In Thee they trusted, and were not ashamed.

16 And to the dust of death thou appointest me, For surrounded me have dogs, A company of evil doers have compassed me, Piercing my hands and my feet.
[piercing has been mistranslated – it comes from the Hebrew word ‘Ka-a-ri’ – this translates to ‘like a lion’. The same word is translated in “Isaiah 38: 13 I reckoned till morning, that, as a lion, so will he break all my bones: from day even to night wilt thou make an end of me.”] – some more examples;
Numbers 23:24 (veka'ari), and I as a young lion
Numbers 24:9 (ka'ari), like a lion
Ezekiel 22:25 (ka'ari), like a lion

Psalms 22:21 - 21 Save me from the mouth of a lion: -- And -- from the horns of the high places Thou hast answered me!

24 For He hath not despised, nor abominated, The affliction of the afflicted, Nor hath He hidden His face from him, And in his crying unto Him He heareth.

Psalm 34:20 He is keeping all his bones, One of them hath not been broken.

Father, I thank thee that thou heardest me. And I knew that thou hearest me always." (John 11:41-42).

Jesus cried to be saved and was heard - not a single bone was broken. If they had pierced his feet & hands - likely one bone would have been broken.

I could say much more but don't want to make it too long - No evidence in the OT that Jesus was going to be crucified for our sins.
Click to expand...
Genesis 22:9-14
Then they came to the place of which God had told him; and Abraham built the altar there and arranged the wood, and bound his son Isaac and laid him on the altar, on top of the wood. 10 And Abraham reached out with his hand and took the knife to slaughter his son. But the angel of the Lord called to him from heaven and said, “Abraham, Abraham!” And he said, “Here I am.” He said, “Do not reach out your hand against the boy, and do not do anything to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me.” Then Abraham raised his eyes and looked, and behold, behind him was a ram caught in the thicket by its horns; and Abraham went and took the ram and offered it up as a burnt offering in the place of his son. And Abraham named that place The Lord Will Provide, as it is said to this day, “On the mountain of the Lord it will be provided.”

I wonder what this narration tells us about Jesus (the ram)?

Will the TRUE SON take the place of Abraham's son?

Will God provide a perfect sacrifice, will it be provided?
 
Locoponydirtman said:
Present sins forgiven.
But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
I John 1:7‭-‬10 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/1jn.1.7-10.NKJV
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How did Jesus death and resurrection pay for my present sins when I wasn’t even born yet?
 
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