Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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Nope - it is "OF" not "IN" -the faith part of the verse is in the genitive, indicating ownership. The part of the verse that says
"believed in Christ', is not to demonstrate the distinction.

This verse confirms that:

[Phl 3:9 KJV] 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Faith of is misreading

Christ is God.. the righteousness which is OG God BY FATH shows who has the faith

Faith is not an action verb, I do not faith God. I have faith IN GOD.’
 
Feb 11, 2023
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And do you know who else can be born from above, be Jesus' brother, and be Jesus' friend? :)
We wouldn't agree on everything, but: Many on the internet, through their deep study come to the conclusion people will be condemned to hell for standing on the plain words of Christ when he walked this earth(John10:29,John14:28&John17:3) All that time studying has led them to absurd beliefs. When I tell people in churches what often gets stated on the internet, they shake their heads in bewilderment, and that includes ministers
 
Mar 4, 2020
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Correct, it is, imho, bad works to keep trying to "bash them them over the head"
with The Bible, thus, after the "good works" of "planting and watering," then God Commands:

Rom 16:17 "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."

Would the Unfruitful discussion then "be ended"? But still "pray for them"?
=====================
Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided
(+ I and II)!
yes, I think I agree with you. Seems like this particular subject is bringing out the bad in people, provoking anger and ad hominems against my character. It's a mercy that I do not continue to engage with those who cannot have a mature conversations about it, lest, somehow by showing what the Bible says, I lead them into a stumbling block they aren't ready to hurdle over.

Thank you for being a voice of reason and I will indeed pray for myself and those who I feel need it. 🙏🏻
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,801
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The fact of God's LOVE for the world, LOVE for the ungodly, LOVE for sinners has been demonstrated to all of creation in the sacrifice of the only and beloved Son of God at the cross. This magnificent demonstration will be sung about in praises by angels, the host of heaven, and Saints, and be acknowledged by Satan, demons and damned souls of men......perpetually forever and ever.

This vast, unparalleled, never to be repeated demonstration of loving grace and mercy has settled FOR ALL ETERNITY the question of whether God is a God of love or a cruel despot.

The crucifixion also refutes and settles, once and for all, this very same slander that Satan has propagated since the fall: that God is NOT a God of love but a hateful cruel King. A slander that continues to this present day.

I wonder....does @rogerg realize that he is approving, agreeing with and propagating the slander of Satan against the Father? For he is declaring that God HATES the ungodly and HATES the sinner and HATES the world.

Somebody inform this person of their woeful folly.
Crystal clear Grandpa. Christ died for sinners......NOT SAINTS. The transformation occurs thereafter.

Rom 5:6
For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:7
For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
Rom 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

G4921 - synistēmi - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv) (blueletterbible.org)
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
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New Zealand
We wouldn't agree on everything, but: Many on the internet, through their deep study come to the conclusion people will be condemned to hell for standing on the plain words of Christ when he walked this earth(John10:29,John14:28&John17:3) All that time studying has led them to absurd beliefs. When I tell people in churches what often gets stated on the internet, they shake their heads in bewilderment, and that includes ministers
It's something I don't get at the moment is alot of people thinking water baptism is part of receiving eternal life.

Having water baptism for receiving eternal life is the mark of a non Christian religion. A cult in the negative sense of being a cult.

Yet it is getting more and more common
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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Then they can never be made alive. They will remain dead in their sin.

Because we are justified through faith. We are saved by grace through faith.

if one can not have faith WHILE dead to repent of their sins. Then no one can be saved.
No. We are justified through Christ's faith not ours. You are correct in that no one can have faith while
dead, and that was exactly my point. So, to have faith, one must first be given spiritual life which can only
be as a byproduct of salvation - that it is from salvation, it is not to salvation.
That is why we say that God has chosen only the elect for salvation - because they are only ones that He makes spiritually alive.

[Luk 1:77 KJV] 77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
 
Mar 4, 2020
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We wouldn't agree on everything, but: Many on the internet, through their deep study come to the conclusion people will be condemned to hell for standing on the plain words of Christ when he walked this earth(John10:29,John14:28&John17:3) All that time studying has led them to absurd beliefs. When I tell people in churches what often gets stated on the internet, they shake their heads in bewilderment, and that includes ministers
Well, I can definitely see that as plausible. At church, people are normally provided a curriculum where the same doctrines are hashed out repeatedly with little to no deviation from the course outline.

Sometimes it's mandated by the denomination's oversight committee what is allowed to be taught, what isn't, and normally the residential minister knows this even if they don't necessarily believe the very words that come out of their own mouth.

Thus, in a sense, denominations may often have very little room for spiritual growth and understanding, whereas a person with a Bible and a prayer is not under such constrains.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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No. We are justified through Christ's faith not ours. You are correct in that no one can have faith while
dead, and that was exactly my point. So, to have faith, one must first be given spiritual life which can only
be as a byproduct of salvation - that it is from salvation, it is not to salvation.
That is why we say that God has chosen only the elect for salvation - because they are only ones that He makes spiritually alive.

[Luk 1:77 KJV] 77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
In part you’re right. But in part your wrong

Christ went to the cross because he had faith in God. That is christs faith paying the payment for salvation.

But thats as far as it goes.

We are justified when we trust (faith) him.. Not when he trusts us.. He does not trust us anymore than we should trust in ourselves thats why a works based salvation has no merit. People trust themselves to do right, to do works, or to not fall away. All in their power..

Thats why the tax collector got on his knees, because he STOPPED trusting self. And placed his faith in God

again, Faith is not a action word. It can not save you. What faith does is empower us to call out to jesus. Empower us to work the works of God.. But it is not work itself.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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Faith of is misreading

Christ is God.. the righteousness which is OG God BY FATH shows who has the faith

Faith is not an action verb, I do not faith God. I have faith IN GOD.’
I don't follow what you're saying.
For the verb form, you believe(ing) in Christ
The faith of Christ is the noun- but it IS His faith, not man's.
Faith "of" shows ownership - genitive.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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I don't follow what you're saying.
For the verb form, you believe(ing) in Christ
The faith of Christ is the noun- but it IS His faith, not man's.
Faith "of" shows ownership - genitive.
if I am saved by Christs faith I do not need to repent or have faith. Since I was born after Christ’s death I would be saved already
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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We are justified when we trust (faith) him.. Not when he trusts us.
I didn't say "when He trusts us" - not even close. Can't see how you got to that from what I said.
Maybe I didn't state it well enough, but that was not my point.

We are justified not by anything that we do but by the faith OF Christ.

[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

People trust themselves to do right, to do works, or to not fall away. All in their power..
Not in their power until saved. Until then, dead in sin.

Thats why the tax collector got on his knees, because he STOPPED trusting self. And placed his faith in God

again, Faith is not a action word. It can not save you. What faith does is empower us to call out to jesus. Empower us to work the works of God.. But it is not work itself.
Doing so meant that he HAD already become saved. Our faith is not what saves us, instead it comes from salvation.
There is absolutely nothing that a man can do that will/can cause him to be saved.
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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if I am saved by Christs faith I do not need to repent or have faith. Since I was born after Christ’s death I would be saved already
Repentance comes only with salvation. It is not the cause of salvation. It is given.

[2Ti 2:25 KJV] 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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I didn't say "when He trusts us" - not even close. Can't see how you got to that from what I said.
Maybe I didn't state it well enough, but that was not my point.

We are justified not by anything that we do but by the faith OF Christ.

[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
you do not get it. This makes no sense. Christ’s faith on the cross paid for my salvation, but it does not make me saved..

Not in their power until saved. Until then, dead in sin.
Your dead in sin until you are justified

we are justified by faith.. by trusting Christ, not ourselves

Doing so meant that he HAD already become saved. Our faith is not what saves us, instead it comes from salvation.
There is absolutely nothing that a man can do that will/can cause him to be saved.
Again this makes no sense
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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Repentance comes only with salvation. It is not the cause of salvation. It is given.

[2Ti 2:25 KJV] 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
The bible tells us to repent if we want to see God..

apposing yourself and recieveing christ is the defenition of repentance

You will never have faith in CHrist until you repent. Until then, you will reject in unbelief
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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you do not get it. This makes no sense. Christ’s faith on the cross paid for my salvation, but it does not make me saved..
His entire ministry did - at least for those so chosen for it. At certain times throughout their lives, they become born again.
Your dead in sin until you are justified

we are justified by faith.. by trusting Christ, not ourselves
Not possible while dead spiritually. What do you think dead spiritually, means? It is that being dead, they are spiritually oblivious to it,
and therefore, completely incapable of changing that.

[1Co 2:13-14 KJV]
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

Again this makes no sense
It does. It means that everything pertaining to salvation is given from salvation as a free gift, with nothing left for the person
to do for it. That is why the Bible calls it a free gift, otherwise, it wouldn't and couldn't be. That is what makes Christ the Saviour,
and not man.

[Rom 5:18 KJV] 18 Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.



 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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The bible tells us to repent if we want to see God..

apposing yourself and recieveing christ is the defenition of repentance

You will never have faith in CHrist until you repent. Until then, you will reject in unbelief
In fact, just the opposite is true. If it is not, then Saviour doesn't mean Saviour.
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
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Midwest
It should be where all believers are concerned. However, I've come to learn on the internet, any plain bible verse can be overturned if necessary to fit in with a persons particular views
Correct, and there are two points that may solve all the Confusion:

1) God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided - ie:

God’s Context Of ‘prophecy/covenants/law’ program:

• TWELVE Apostles (Mat. 10:2; Luk 6:13, 22:14;

• gospel of the kingdom (Mat. 4:23, 9:35, 24:14; Mar 1:14-15)

• Commission (Mat. 28:19-20)

"faith WITHOUT works is dead" to The Twelve tribes
(James 1:1, 2:17,20,26) ►►► NO osas in view ◄◄◄

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

God’s Other Context Of GRACE / Mystery Program Has Its Own:

Apostle (Rom. 11:13; 1 Tim. 2:7)

Gospel Of GRACE (1 Cor. 15:3-4; Eph. 2:8-9)

Commission (2 Cor. 5:14-21; Eph. 3:9) To "The Body Of Christ!":

"Grace Through faith," Apart From ALL [man's] works, To Eternal Life!
(Eph 2:8-9; Rom 3:24, 4:5; Tit 3:5-7;
Now God's OPERATION 1Co 12:13)

►►► OSAS In view ◄◄◄:

2) 144 Plain and Clear Passages For God's Eternal Life, According to
The
Revelation Of The Mystery, That no one can overturn:

God's OPERATION On all HIS New-born babes In Christ
+
God's Eternal Assurance

-----------------------------

Conclusion: TWO Different programs are Not the same;
Never Mix them Up in Confusion (Romans_11:6), Correct?

-----------------------------
Precious friend(s):

Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided
(+ I and II)!
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
6,066
1,948
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His entire ministry did - at least for those so chosen for it. At certain times throughout their lives, they become born again.
When does this happen?

when Christ faith?

or when they trust Christ?

Not possible while dead spiritually. What do you think dead spiritually, means? It is that being dead, they are spiritually oblivious to it,
Spiritually dead means seperated from God. the penalty for sin. Thats it in a nutshell.

and therefore, completely incapable of changing that.
Your right, so they must come to the point they trust the person who can change it for them
[1Co 2:13-14 KJV]
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
Thats why the natural man must be broken, Only God can do this. But he will not do it against someones will.

It means they can not understand the deeper mysteries

They already know the deserve death (romans 1)
they already know they are a inner (romans 1)
all they have to do is TRUST that this is why they are dead, and trust CHRIST who came to save them, and believe what the HS convicts them off

It does. It means that everything pertaining to salvation is given from salvation as a free gift, with nothing left for the person
to do for it. That is why the Bible calls it a free gift, otherwise, it wouldn't and couldn't be. That is what makes Christ the Saviour,
and not man.

[Rom 5:18 KJV] 18 Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.
This is why it is hard to talk to certain people

the very fact I have the ability to trust in CHrist for Christ to save me is by his grace. it is the gift of God. as is my salvation.

Me trusting GOD is not me saving myself. I do not know why you seem to think it is. but it is not.

Until you realize this, It will be impossible for yuo to comprehend what I believe
 
Feb 11, 2023
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Correct, and there are two points that may solve all the Confusion:

1) God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided - ie:

God’s Context Of ‘prophecy/covenants/law’ program:

• TWELVE Apostles (Mat. 10:2; Luk 6:13, 22:14;

• gospel of the kingdom (Mat. 4:23, 9:35, 24:14; Mar 1:14-15)

• Commission (Mat. 28:19-20)

"faith WITHOUT works is dead" to The Twelve tribes
(James 1:1, 2:17,20,26) ►►► NO osas in view ◄◄◄

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

God’s Other Context Of GRACE / Mystery Program Has Its Own:

Apostle (Rom. 11:13; 1 Tim. 2:7)

Gospel Of GRACE (1 Cor. 15:3-4; Eph. 2:8-9)

Commission (2 Cor. 5:14-21; Eph. 3:9) To "The Body Of Christ!":

"Grace Through faith," Apart From ALL [man's] works, To Eternal Life!
(Eph 2:8-9; Rom 3:24, 4:5; Tit 3:5-7;
Now God's OPERATION 1Co 12:13)

►►► OSAS In view ◄◄◄:

2) 144 Plain and Clear Passages For God's Eternal Life, According to
The
Revelation Of The Mystery, That no one can overturn:

God's OPERATION On all HIS New-born babes In Christ
+
God's Eternal Assurance

-----------------------------

Conclusion: TWO Different programs are Not the same;
Never Mix them Up in Confusion (Romans_11:6), Correct?

-----------------------------
Precious friend(s):

Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided
(+ I and II)!
Are you a dispensationalist?