Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Worked on Paul that much is for sure.

I welcome your efforts if you want to post some Scriptures supporting your position. Then I will respond.

Maybe a thread on TULIP needs to be started, dealing with each letter. Though I understand there are degrees that some support and not others.

 

[cv5]

God chose the Christian church before the foundation of the world, not individual Christians.

Wrong again......
And here again, in black and white, the undeniable FACT of God's own CHOOSING. Of an individual. For specific service. Which undoubtedly happens to this very present day.

Act 9:15
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

 

[cv5]

Maybe a thread on TULIP needs to be started, dealing with each letter. Though I understand there are degrees that some support and not others.

This thread is OSAS. Which is inextricably linked to Gods own CHOOSING and election.
IMO....well within the topic boundaries.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

OSAS debunked yet again.

Revelation 12
17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14
12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 22
14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

once again, You fail to prove your point.

This is not a list of things they must do

it is a list of things they DO

ie, it is not prescriptive, It describes WHO gods people are.

nice try though

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

This thread is OSAS. Which is inextricably linked to Gods own CHOOSING and election.
IMO....well within the topic boundaries.

No, I didn't say it wasn't. Just thought it might be a good topic for a thread. So here's where I get tied up more than any other part of OSAS. God choosing to create a people for destruction. If there is an elect then there is an opposite. And here I get stuck in the quick sand. That God would create men, women and children to be destroyed, incapable of receiving salvation. Perhaps we could start there.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

This isn’t tribulation saints. Rightly divide the word of truth.

Revelation 22
14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

again, Descriptive. Not prescriptive.

Gods people do (not might do) Gods commands. Because God changed them

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Refuse, I would assume they would have no rewards in heaven. I'd have to look deeper into that actually.

Sadly, He does not believe in the power of God to change people

He thinks he must change himself. and if he changes enough he will be saved

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

This thread is OSAS. Which is inextricably linked to Gods own CHOOSING and election.
IMO....well within the topic boundaries.

Its not calvinistic. Eternal life is eternal. whether you calvin or not

 

[cv5]

Its not calvinistic. Eternal life is eternal. whether you calvin or not

I am not a Calvinist.

 

[Runningman]

again, Descriptive. Not prescriptive.

Gods people do (not might do) Gods commands. Because God changed them

Let’s just make it clear. Revelation 22:14 says those who keep God’s commandments have right to the tree of life, but you’re saying keeping the commandments is not required to have right to the tree of life.

This is an easy one. who’s right: you or the Bible? The Bible is right and you’re wrong.

If you don’t keep God’s commandments you’re not accessing the tree of life.

 

[Runningman]

I am not a Calvinist.

OSAS, free grace, unmerited grace, and such doctrines of those people (yourself included) are heavily steeped in Calvin’s TULIP. You’re definitely a Calvinist, you just didn’t know it.

 

[HeIsHere]

Who was Jesus speaking to? The twelve. Jesus chose his disciples.

I was just going to type that and read your response.

Audience relevance is so important, but the Calvinist slanters (cause they are not Calvinists ) tends to like avoid the context.

 

[cv5]

OSAS, free grace, unmerited grace, and such doctrines of those people (yourself included) are heavily steeped in Calvin’s TULIP. You’re definitely a Calvinist, you just didn’t know it.

As you can (easily) see in my many posts, I am "heavily steeped" in pertinent (irrefutable) BIBLICAL REFERENCES.
And Calvin did not write my Bible.

 

[HeIsHere]

After reading your post I wondered if anyone falls into the category you described, then realized you just defined most Catholics.

I would agree, but I would also state that they do not have the full Good News and the simplicity of the Gospel is contaminated with extraneous false teachings.

 

[HeIsHere]

The battle between Calvinism and free-will has raged on for centurys. Usually, once a person has made a decision on what they believe, it doesn't change.

That is true to this day.

God bless. I'm out.

I left some Calvinist teachings that I held so it does happen.

I think if one can lay down their biases and do a deep dive one will see that TULIP, whether it is TULIP lite or the TULIP traditional is not what God is revealing in His word.

 

[Runningman]

As you can (easily) see in my many posts, I am "heavily steeped" in pertinent (irrefutable) BIBLICAL REFERENCES.
And Calvin did not write my Bible.

I could prove it, but you wouldn’t listen.

 

[Runningman]

Every Christian (person born again of the Holy Spirit) will be saved. The gift of the Holy Spirit is the guarantee of salvation (Eph 1:13-14).

The difference between a dedicated Christian and a "pew-warmer on Christmas and Easter" Christian will be rewards. Dedicated Christians will receive a "rich welcome" (Heb 10:35; 2 Pet 1:11; more..), lazy Christians may get nothing at all (1 Cor 3:10-15). But every Christian will be saved.

what does it mean God will judge each person according to what they have done?

2 Corinthians 5
10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad.

seems pretty straightforward, but Paul didn’t really explain what happens to those bad works in 2 Corinthians 5.

However, Paul explained in Romans 2 that works aren’t just rewards. They’re the standard by which we are judged, given eternal life, or receive God’s wrath.

Romans 2
5But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.

6God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”

7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Let’s just make it clear. Revelation 22:14 says those who keep God’s commandments have right to the tree of life, but you’re saying keeping the commandments is not required to have right to the tree of life.

This is an easy one. who’s right: you or the Bible? The Bible is right and you’re wrong.

If you don’t keep God’s commandments you’re not accessing the tree of life.

No

I never said this at all. Once again you prove your compretension skills is lacking

how do you get Gods People DO his commands to equal Gods people may not DO his commands..

these are not the same

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

OSAS, free grace, unmerited grace, and such doctrines of those people (yourself included) are heavily steeped in Calvin’s TULIP. You’re definitely a Calvinist, you just didn’t know it.

Imagine standing in front of God and realising you rejected his truth All because you hate calvinism.

That will make for a long eternity

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

I left some Calvinist teachings that I held so it does happen.

I think if one can lay down their biases and do a deep dive one will see that TULIP, whether it is TULIP lite or the TULIP traditional is not what God is revealing in His word.

That made me smile. May I ask what caused you to change your mind? As I said, there are just some things in TULIP that go too far for my understanding of the Word. I guess I've never really pressed my OSAS friends as to what decree they support TULIP.