Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked
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I admit this chart is interesting and I’ll dig into more later, but Jesus didn’t say there was 13 tribes unless that was intentional. Is there a tribe of Israel that won’t be judged?
12 disciples + Jesus = 13. There might be some significance in that.
12 disciples + Jesus = 13. There might be some significance in that.
You are mistaken to think Judas is always included when you see the number twelve.
Jesus is never mistaken.
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John 18:9
This was to fulfill the word He had spoken: “I have not lost one of those You have given Me.”
John 6:39
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day.
John 17:12
While I was with them, I protected and preserved them by Your name, the name You gave Me. Not
one of them has been lost, except the son of destruction, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.
This was to fulfill the word He had spoken: “I have not lost one of those You have given Me.”
John 6:39
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day.
John 17:12
While I was with them, I protected and preserved them by Your name, the name You gave Me. Not
one of them has been lost, except the son of destruction, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.
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Perseverance in doing good, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (vs. 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but is a description of those to whom God does render life eternal.
*Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved.
Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath. *Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil.
*Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved.
Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath. *Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil.
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Yes, it is. Prophecy is either true or false.
You can't have it both ways, a statement is either true or false.
Will Judas reign with Christ in the resurrection? No?
Then either Matthew 19:28 isn't talking about Judas or Christ is a false prophet.
Christ is not a false prophet.
Christ is not deceived.
Christ is not wrong.
Christ is not ignorant.
Christ is never in error.
You can't have it both ways, a statement is either true or false.
Will Judas reign with Christ in the resurrection? No?
Then either Matthew 19:28 isn't talking about Judas or Christ is a false prophet.
Christ is not a false prophet.
Christ is not deceived.
Christ is not wrong.
Christ is not ignorant.
Christ is never in error.
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Christ telling people they will receive eternal life isn’t a prophecy. The Bible also tells you how to have eternal life, correct? Is that a prophecy? It isn’t. It’s instructions on how you can get the thing you’re seeking.
The prophecy, once again, is that Judas was doomed. The disciples being told they will have eternal life is a conditional promise. If you do x thing you get x thing.
The prophecy, once again, is that Judas was doomed. The disciples being told they will have eternal life is a conditional promise. If you do x thing you get x thing.
Th plain reading of the verse about getting immortality through perseverance means immortality is works-based. Paul repeated this numerous times. If your exegesis creates a different point than what Paul plainly said, it’s obviously a red flag 🚩 that you’re twisting scripture to shoe horn OSAS into the Bible. That’s you eisegesis.
Your eisegesis continuously culminates in salvation by works, in contradiction to scripture. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:2-6; 5:1; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..). Works-salvationists typically confuse 'descriptive' passages of scripture with 'prescriptive' passages of scripture, as demonstrated by you.
Once again, ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10).
And ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9).
"Perseverance in doing good" - descriptive of believers.
"Those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness" - descriptive of unbelievers.
Once again, ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10).
And ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9).
"Perseverance in doing good" - descriptive of believers.
"Those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness" - descriptive of unbelievers.
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Who gave Satan authority to persecute Job?
All things are through Christ, but this neither makes Him the author of evil nor does it make everyone who says 'lord, lord' and does wonders, of Him.
We know He will say to many such people 'I never knew you'
Mark that carefully. Not 'I used to know you then I didn't' - - but He never knew them. So I ask again, is He a liar when He says He never knew them or is His statement 100% accurate?
Therefore Judas doing signs and wonders is not proof he was ever a child of God.
All things are through Christ, but this neither makes Him the author of evil nor does it make everyone who says 'lord, lord' and does wonders, of Him.
We know He will say to many such people 'I never knew you'
Mark that carefully. Not 'I used to know you then I didn't' - - but He never knew them. So I ask again, is He a liar when He says He never knew them or is His statement 100% accurate?
Therefore Judas doing signs and wonders is not proof he was ever a child of God.
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Ahem.
Foretelling the future is the very definition.
Matthew 19:28
So Jesus said to them, "Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."
Foretelling the future is the very definition.
Matthew 19:28
So Jesus said to them, "Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."
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that’s different than what you said at first. At first you’re saying Judas is not from God, when it’s actually that Judas was a disciple of Christ, a believer, was told he would have eternal life, and performed miracles that believers in Christ perform.
Now you’re searching Revelation for points about the devil giving his followers power during the end times tribulation mark of the beast period. You’re attempting to connect that to Judas, but that’s not accurate.
You simply have the cart in front of the horse.
Judas was given authority to go out and preach the gospel, cast out demons, and heal for the glory of God. The devil doesn’t do that. Big difference and you’d do well to finally learn this.
You’re saying Jesus sent Judas out on a devil’s errand? That sounds like what you’re saying.
Jesus taught that every house divided against itself cannot stand. You think Jesus sent a devil out to work for the kingdom of God? That’s ridiculous.
Judas didn’t become a devil until later in the story. In the beginning it wasn’t so.
Now you’re searching Revelation for points about the devil giving his followers power during the end times tribulation mark of the beast period. You’re attempting to connect that to Judas, but that’s not accurate.
You simply have the cart in front of the horse.
Judas was given authority to go out and preach the gospel, cast out demons, and heal for the glory of God. The devil doesn’t do that. Big difference and you’d do well to finally learn this.
You’re saying Jesus sent Judas out on a devil’s errand? That sounds like what you’re saying.
Jesus taught that every house divided against itself cannot stand. You think Jesus sent a devil out to work for the kingdom of God? That’s ridiculous.
Judas didn’t become a devil until later in the story. In the beginning it wasn’t so.
Oh?
Have you never read:
Matthew 7:22-23
Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
Did Jesus truly "never know" the ones He is talking about here?
Or is Jesus lying?
If Jesus is not a liar, and He never knew these that preached and cast out demons and healed, then through what power and authority did they do such things?
Have you never read:
Matthew 7:22-23
Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
Did Jesus truly "never know" the ones He is talking about here?
Or is Jesus lying?
If Jesus is not a liar, and He never knew these that preached and cast out demons and healed, then through what power and authority did they do such things?
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