Is Calvinism the truth?
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Actual Calvinists do not believe we have a choice.
So perhaps Calvin is not your patron saint?that would be good
however I am left wondering why you then ask if people do not believe God to be severing? Understand that is actually a pet question of Calvinists when trying to prove their interpretation
however, the reformed view, which you do seem to espouse, does come from Calvin it would seem
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as I stated some posts back, there are different flavors of Calvinism
Hi Polar,
This conversation is bordering on the absurd and devoid of anything in reality. I'll leave you this.
"that man has choice and that it is self-determined" and that his actions stem from "his own voluntary choosing.". (Calvin)
Man has a choice.
If you cannot understand that the faith, being a fruit of the Holy Spirit is spiritual faith, then you are totally unable to understand spiritual things. I think that you are more knowledgeable of the scriptures than to be identified as an unregenerate. You are calling black to be white just to hold on to your mistaken belief that the unregenerate person can understand spiritual things.
Your Berean model of studying the scriptures is not working for you.
Hi free grace,
I know what you are referring to. It'l be some view of baptist succestionist history. If not you can let me know.
I have already told you that I have never read Calvin's writings. I believe in the doctrine that Jesus taught, and his doctrine was never a part of the RCC, and therefore was never a part of the reformation, as Calvin was. I, also, have told you that I never consult other people's interpretation of the scriptures. I believe that the scriptures prove themselves, and should be the only source of gleaning the truth, along with the revelation of the Holy Spirit.
one question. do you believe we have a choice in accepting Christ or do you believe we have no choice? kindly answer that and everything else falls into place
I hope that you don't mind me inserting my belief of your question; Jesus did the bidding of his Father's predetermination to go to the cross as part of the process of adopting his Father's elect, (Eph 1:4-5) and securing their eternal inheritance (John 6:39).
Jesus's sacrifice was an offering to God, for God's acceptance, and not to mankind, for mankind's acceptance. At that time, Jesus said "it is finished, and there would be no more sacrifice for sins".
Isaiah 63:11 - Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people saying, where is he that put his holy Spirit within him.
Luke 17:21 - Behold, the kingdom of God is within you. Eph 2:5 - Even when we were dead in sins, hath he quickened us together with Christ. Christ is within us in the form of the Holy Spirit, and in 2 Tim 2:13, Timothy says "If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful, he cannot deny himself.
Hi Polar,
Yes we have a choice. We can hardly read the Gospels themselves without being confronted with a choice. When we here the good news we will either be like the men in Acts 2 and cut to the heart and ask.. What must I do? Or we will be like those in Acts 7 and our hearts will be hardened further than what they already are. The choice is still a real choice.
Hope that helps
You either misquoted Acts 2, or you are studying from another version of the bible other than the KJV. The Jews in Acts 2 were "pricked" in their heart, and responded with a humble heart of flesh that could be pricked to feel guilty. The unregenerate person has a heart of stone, that cannot be pricked to feel guilty of breaking a spiritual law of God, which portrays those in Acts 7:54, who had the heart of stone, and were cut to the heart when they heard Steven preaching the same sermon that Peter taught about them being guilty of crucifying Christ. The choices that we make after we have been born again, and given a new heart, are quite the opposite of the unregenerate with the heart of stone. We have been given the freedom to make choices as to how we want to live our lives as we sojourn here in this world, but our eternal destiny is by God's choice.
What don't you agree with here.. Its say cut to the heart.
When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
Or another version,
37Now when m they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, n what shall we do?”
Is it because they are not the KJv.
What ever way you look at it either semi Pelagian/Arminian or reformed it's a work of the Holy Spirit. That cuts to the heart or picks.
Whatever your theological persuasion its the work of the spirit. Some would say prevenient grace others effectual grace
FreeGrace2 said:
The believer's day to day walk by trusting that God will provide for his/her needs is STILL a trust issue.
Maybe you'll just dismiss them as not 'true believers'. But Jesus clearly acknowledged that believers can fall away from the faith, per Luke 8:13.
The believer's day to day walk by trusting that God will provide for his/her needs is STILL a trust issue.
This verse is a policy statement, not a statement of fact. There are many examples in the Bible of believers who failed to walk by faith.
Maybe you'll just dismiss them as not 'true believers'. But Jesus clearly acknowledged that believers can fall away from the faith, per Luke 8:13.
FreeGrace2 said:
Your claim doesn't make it so. Faith in the eternal salvation sense is a trust issue, not a spiritual issue.
Spiritual growth IS a spiritual issue. And that involves the whole concept of spiritual growth; being in fellowship with the Lord, being filled with the Spirit, and producing the fruit of the Spirit.
When people make claims that they can't find in verses that SAY what they preach, they are false preachers.
I've asked you for verses that SAY what you claim. What I get from you instead are explanations of what you SAY. That's not the same as quoting a verse that SAYS what you SAY.
Your claim doesn't make it so. Faith in the eternal salvation sense is a trust issue, not a spiritual issue.
Your claim doesn't make it true.
Good. You do show some discernment.
Maybe you just don't pay enough attention. The gospel is a trust issue yet you persist in your obsession to claim that the gospel is a spiritual issue.
Spiritual growth IS a spiritual issue. And that involves the whole concept of spiritual growth; being in fellowship with the Lord, being filled with the Spirit, and producing the fruit of the Spirit.
Oh no. It's working very well. Just as well as it did for the Bereans, who were able to prove that Paul WAS teaching the truth.
When people make claims that they can't find in verses that SAY what they preach, they are false preachers.
I've asked you for verses that SAY what you claim. What I get from you instead are explanations of what you SAY. That's not the same as quoting a verse that SAYS what you SAY.
FreeGrace2 said:
You have not proven from Scripture that there is such a thing as a "spiritual faith". You are just making up terms to suit your own fancy, just like Calvinists who make up phony terms like "dead faith = no faith".
But the truth is that most people got their Calvinism from reading articles written by pastors who ARE Calvinists.
I DO that. You haven't yet.
You have not proven from Scripture that there is such a thing as a "spiritual faith". You are just making up terms to suit your own fancy, just like Calvinists who make up phony terms like "dead faith = no faith".
This is a common excuse or dodge, for what people believe. They try to distance themselves from being identified with Calvinism.
But the truth is that most people got their Calvinism from reading articles written by pastors who ARE Calvinists.
You absolutely misunderstand what Jesus taught. As I've been pointing out.
Only when a person can quote a verse that SAYS what they SAY can you defend your claims.
I DO that. You haven't yet.
P
Polar
Guest
yes. what did Calvin say regarding how a person is born again?
Where did you get that from? Calvin taught that we are either predestined for salvation or hell
Predestination is a doctrine in Calvinism dealing with the question of the control that God exercises over the world. In the words of the Westminster Confession of Faith, God "freely and unchangeably ordained whatsoever comes to pass."[2] The second use of the word "predestination" applies this to the salvation, and refers to the belief that God appointed the eternal destiny of some to salvation by grace, while leaving the remainder to receive eternal damnation for all their sins, even their original sin. The former is called "unconditional election", and the latter "reprobation". In Calvinism, some people are predestined and effectually called in due time (regenerated/born again) to faith by God, all others are reprobated.
Calvinism places more emphasis on election compared to other branches of Christianity.
Absurd or not, you do not seem to actually understand what Calvin taught
More than happy to leaved the conversation.
That's OK if you don't think I know what Calvin taught thats fine. Anyhow have a good evening and I'll leave you with this thought:
"by faith we receive the incorruptible seed, (1 Peter 1:23,) by which we are born again to a new and divine life. And yet faith itself is a work of the Holy Spirit, who dwells in none but the children of God. So then, in various respects, faith is a part of our regeneration" ( Calvin).
NO, CALVINISM IS NOT THE TRUTH.
Just another silly denomination made by man, given the name of a man…
Ughhh!!!
Wise up people! FOLLOW JESUS CHRIST and HIM alone. Read the Word of God, have ears that can hear The Holy Spirit of Truth!
Put away all these strange “fire” and strange “gospel”!
They’re just golden calves in the wilderness…. NOT GOD, NOT to be worshipped or followed.
Choose this day whom you will serve, as for me and my house, we will serve THE LORD - JESUS CHRIST! Amen.
Just another silly denomination made by man, given the name of a man…
Ughhh!!!Wise up people! FOLLOW JESUS CHRIST and HIM alone. Read the Word of God, have ears that can hear The Holy Spirit of Truth!
Put away all these strange “fire” and strange “gospel”!
They’re just golden calves in the wilderness…. NOT GOD, NOT to be worshipped or followed.
Choose this day whom you will serve, as for me and my house, we will serve THE LORD - JESUS CHRIST! Amen.
P
Polar
Guest
Do you agree that the unregenerate person has a heart of stone, and the regenerate person has a heart of flesh? (Ezk 11:19) (Ezk 36:26-28)
Do you not see the different response of those that stoned Stephen to death, that were "cut to the heart", and those Jews that were "pricked in their hearts" when they heard Peter's sermon, accusing them of crucifying Jesus? Those that heard Peter felt guilty, and those that heard Stephen felt no remorse or guilt.